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Acacia Mangium Extract - Most Likely No DMT Options
 
eastlancsguy
#1 Posted : 1/24/2016 1:29:30 AM
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Hi all,

My friend recently carried out an extraction on the bark of a species of Acacia that we think was Acacia Mangium. We had seen some reports that this species may contain actives, so he decided to try and find out for sure so that the community can either rule in or rule out this species as one of interest.

Here are some photos of a couple of plates. Where shown (pics 2 & 3) 1 denotes a sample of known DMT, 2 denotes a sample of the orange waxy substance my friend managed to extract from the bark.

Firstly, the separations under a UV lamp. The known DMT sample is in the first column, the Acacia extraction samples are in columns 2 and 3:



Next, the same plate with ehrlich used on the spots from the sample known to contain DMT, and ehrlich and mecke used on the spots from the extracted substance:



Finally, a second plate with marquis and mecke used on the DMT spots (columns 1 & 2), and marquis on the extracted substance (column 3).



Neither of us have much chemistry knowledge, but I suspect these results imply there's no DMT within the extraction he completed, and therefore (most likely) none in the bark. There's always the chance that my friend carried out the extraction incorrectly, but he's fairly confident that's unlikely as he followed it to the letter (Cyb's Salt Tek).

I guess the following observations have our heads scratching a little bit...

1) The known good sample of DMT produced two very clear separation spots. One of these must be DMT, but what could the other be? DMT N-Oxide? NMT?

2) The reagent tests didn't really look like the reference ones on the Bunk website. This is making it tricky for him to identify which of the DMT sample spots is actually DMT.

3) He's no idea what the substance identified from the extraction separation is!

He's completely new to all of this but is going to investigate a little more to see if he can find out the answers to any of the above. Hope this has been of some use to the community.
 

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endlessness
#2 Posted : 1/26/2016 10:25:05 PM

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On the left column the top spot is dmt, the bottom spot is nmt.

I suggest next time concentrating the Acacia mangium sample a bit more and doing the concentrated test on another column, because it might be that there is DMT but so little its hard to see. On the flipside you can dilute the dmt sample a bit, it works fine as-is but ideally you want somewhat smaller spots to make sure that a too concentrated spot isnt hiding another spot nearby. Im sure thats not the case there, but i say this so to help for the future in getting the ideal concentrations for visualization. Also what you can do is try to use some ehrlich on the mangium columns at the same height as the dmt spot even if you dont see anything, because sometimes the spot cant be seen but with the reagent you might see a slight reaction.

If the bunk police are selling a reagent called hofmann (or pdmab-ts), get that and try to find some normal uv light, because using that reagent and then looking at the plate with the 365nm uv normal blacklight, if there is dmt or nmt it shines strongly green/yellow.

Dont give up just yet, be sure to test different parts of the plant, plants of different maturity and plants in different seasons.

By the way, thank you so much for sharing this, that is exactly what i was dreaming about when i started developing the tlc kits. Hopefully you find a plant with dmt there but in the meanwhile , a negative result is very positive in terms of knowledge gained.

As for the spots present in the mangium, not sure what they could be, I will help you out gettimg this gc-ms tested , just give me some time since im quite busy and not at home. In the meanwhile you can gather more interesting samples and.tlc testing them and then we can gc-ms test the most promissing ones (or the ones with repeated unknown spots that will be useful to know what it is)

Be well!
 
eastlancsguy
#3 Posted : 1/27/2016 10:27:17 PM
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Hi Endlessness,

Thanks for your response.

endlessness wrote:
I suggest next time concentrating the Acacia mangium sample a bit more and doing the concentrated test on another column, because it might be that there is DMT but so little its hard to see. On the flipside you can dilute the dmt sample a bit, it works fine as-is but ideally you want somewhat smaller spots to make sure that a too concentrated spot isnt hiding another spot nearby. Im sure thats not the case there, but i say this so to help for the future in getting the ideal concentrations for visualization. Also what you can do is try to use some ehrlich on the mangium columns at the same height as the dmt spot even if you dont see anything, because sometimes the spot cant be seen but with the reagent you might see a slight reaction.


Noted, I'll tell my friend to do this on the next TLC experiment. WRT concentrating the Mangium sample a bit more, he had problems getting it to dissolve in the solution. He's going to try and clean it up a bit (via a re ex or maybe some kind of mini A/B). This might remove more of the non active compounds and leave a substance that is easier to test.

endlessness wrote:
If the bunk police are selling a reagent called hofmann (or pdmab-ts), get that and try to find some normal uv light, because using that reagent and then looking at the plate with the 365nm uv normal blacklight, if there is dmt or nmt it shines strongly green/yellow.


Good stuff, I'll take a look.

endlessness wrote:
On the left column the top spot is dmt, the bottom spot is nmt.


Could you explain to me how you know this? I don't doubt you, but I'd just like to know how you can figure this out?

endlessness wrote:
Dont give up just yet, be sure to test different parts of the plant, plants of different maturity and plants in different seasons.


Unfortunately, that isn't going to be possible for a while. My friend managed to harvest this bark whilst we were on holiday in Thailand. I don't know when we'll be there again. Just so everyone knows, the bark samples were taken during the 'winter' season. The tree was not flowering nor were any seed pods growing.

He's thinking of trying some Phalaris extracts next, as they grow everywhere around here. It would be really awesome to find a local plant that contains spice :-)

endlessness wrote:
By the way, thank you so much for sharing this, that is exactly what i was dreaming about when i started developing the tlc kits. Hopefully you find a plant with dmt there but in the meanwhile , a negative result is very positive in terms of knowledge gained.


No problem. Like I said, we've gotten so much from the posts here and we just wanted to give something back.

endlessness wrote:
As for the spots present in the mangium, not sure what they could be, I will help you out gettimg this gc-ms tested , just give me some time since im quite busy and not at home. In the meanwhile you can gather more interesting samples and.tlc testing them and then we can gc-ms test the most promissing ones (or the ones with repeated unknown spots that will be useful to know what it is)

Be well!


That's great, thanks. If you think it's really worth looking into this further, just get in touch when you're ready to take this forward. No rush from my perspective.

Thanks again for all the assistance :-)
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 1/30/2016 12:42:29 PM

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Regarding the DMT/NMT, I know because I've tested with pure NMT and pure DMT as reference standards before, so I've seen that NMT appears under DMT in that exact way Smile

Too bad you dont have any more of those samples but in the future if you do, or if you have other plants of interest, be sure to post the results. And yeah we'll definitely work something out with having your sample gc-msed, Im going back home in march so if you dont hear from me by mid march send me a pm reminding me Smile
 
eastlancsguy
#5 Posted : 1/30/2016 10:46:10 PM
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endlessness wrote:
Regarding the DMT/NMT, I know because I've tested with pure NMT and pure DMT as reference standards before, so I've seen that NMT appears under DMT in that exact way Smile


OK, brilliant, thanks Endlessness.

endlessness wrote:
Too bad you dont have any more of those samples but in the future if you do, or if you have other plants of interest, be sure to post the results.


Well, my mates still got plenty of the bark left, but it was all taken from the same tree, at the same time, from the same bit of the tree. So I doubt any of it will be any different tbh.

However I have family over there in Thailand so will be going back at some point. Whilst there I will look for more samples, but it won't be for a year or so yet, maybe more.

I will definitely post results. My friend just carried out an extraction on some MHRB and he tested that with the kit. It looks just like the 'reference' sample of DMT, except it has a slightly larger spot for DMT, and a slightly smaller spot for NMT - RESULT! His first successful extraction :-) He feels quite proud ATM :-) I will post his results on the forum next time I get chance. It was using Cyb's Salt Tek, so it's always good to have some proof that a tek really does deliver the goods.

Using the tech he got 0.905mg of beautiful yellow crystals from 50mg of bark, from just 2 pulls! Great result. The third and fourth pulls produced some goo, but not much. He said he might have another go at the base soup when time permits.

endlessness wrote:
And yeah we'll definitely work something out with having your sample gc-msed, Im going back home in march so if you dont hear from me by mid march send me a pm reminding me Smile


Cool, will do. Thanks buddy, we really appreciate your help!
 
20past4
#6 Posted : 10/6/2017 1:19:36 PM
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Old post I know , but are you still looking for A.mangium samples? I've been curios myself, as there is a heap that grow on the mountain right behind where I live. I walk past them regularly and I notice there all being chopped down for some reason. Why them? Cheers.
 
 
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