Awesome thread. Some very good perspectives here.
I don't know why but I started thinking about how we are all slaves to survival.
I'm thinking of it just by your definition of the ability to say no.
In that sense if I were move out into the wilderness with my family (hypothetically of course since I have no family) and committed to living off the land then I too would be a slave to the stomachs of myself and my family or community if this were a community. Just like the tribes in South America or anywhere else in the world they have certain tasks that they must complete every day for their very survival. They can't say no to going out into the woods for as long as it takes to get some protein for the community. IF they come back empty handed they are worthless and looked down upon.
To me it just seems as though freedom or a lack of it can't only be pointed at the government or society. I don't think any human being in our history has ever been truly free under these guidelines to freedom if you will. I think maybe it's just part of life. Though I do agree that this planet has more than enough resources for everyone to get an equal slice of the pie. No one should have to go without food or water or shelter or proper care and or treatment.
Anyhow. Like I said. Very good thread. It got me doing a lot of thinking.

^^Very true and a good point. We work more in this scoiety than trbal societies though..I boudt this is true in every case but I remember inmy anthropoly classes reading somewhere that most people in traditional tribes work maybe 3 or 4 hours a day..and the rest is leisure time..sitting aound the fire, telling stories to the younger ones, passing on myths, celebrations etc..Plus, they're work was things like hunting in the bush with other members of the tribe, forraging, etc..and they prob didnt feel like they were being ripped off while they were doing it because of the tribe-mind..everything is for the tribe..granted they loose some individuality in the process(in reguards to working anyway), but nothing is perfect..

I cant count how many jobs I have done that I felt were completely unnecessary and only being done so some fat, rich man can have an even bigger mansion and 5 swimming pools instead of 4..

WE are overworked here. Thats the main point. Of course everyone needs to do something to survive..everything is a plight against entropy. Really in our society with all of our technology we should have it better..but it seems we dont. Sure we have computers and TV's, airplanes and cars..but we also have lots of depression, suicides, Fox News, Hollywood, Paris Hilton and Walmart..we still have wars, we still basically have monarchs etc..

Technology is sopposed to make things easier for us all, unite us and bring us prosperity..so we could focus our attention on other persuits, like art, philosophy, theology..enrichment of the human condition etc..but that would equate to equality..and we all know how much our loving governments would like that...

Before the Great Depression, people worked 12+ hour days, 6 days a week. The 5 day week was brought in to create employment. I hope a 4 day working week is coming soon... I don't believe it would make any economic difference even if we each only worked a 20 hour week. Now that women are in the workforce, we should be all working half as hard really... we've missed out there.

As always, I'm finding, you are very correct. What I posted wasn't something I thought all the way through and while I may have made a good point I think you make a better one.

Excellent points. The thing is, we need a paradigm shift. The world we inhabit at the present moment it unsustainable, it works against our very nature.

I read an article somewhere, that if we took the amount of money people worldwide spent on cigarettes (only cigarettes, things whose sole purpose is to kill you) we could clothe, house and feed EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the planet! From death comes life, and an opportunity to better every single life that shares this one world. It is all about priorities and perspective.

Now that is a change I would like to see.

Saidin

I love this thread, we are all slaves to our governments and big corporations as well as advertising. The only way not to be affected by all that is to leave normal society and create a society of your own. But I feel we are all also slaves to suffering and our own negative emotions and addictions, whether we are addicted to negative emotions, sugar, coffee ect.... We all seem to have our own personal battles of slavery and i think the more in life we can avoid situations where we will succumb to these negative emotions and behavior loops the happier we will be.


Much Peace and Happiness

prepare for flight...

It's time to walk out of the shadows..

Show others they're wings and walk into the light..

http://www.youtube.com/w...mkMA&feature=related

..be beautiful again..

Very nice! Thanks for sharing...

Sea of Beauty
The moon of love is rising full
Love's flood tide.

My mind craves nectar day and night.
Like a blue lotus floating on the sea of love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lujeFUXOXg0

^^ a favorite song of mine, nice choice!...the sacred dance of the music can set us free!..break those bonds and let us run..

normal society? Thats another way we are enslaved. For somthing to exist at law it must have a name. what is the name of this normal society you speak of?

Or join a like minded society
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org
Remember, We are dancing, laughing stardust made incarnate.
God's peace to you.

DeadLizard

Normal society is the society that lives in cities, the society that most of the worlds population lives in, its a very unnatural and unhealthy society. Indeed you could join a like minded society to, but for me personally my goal its to create my own society.

(I was speaking from a personal perspective, sorry if that was not clear).


Much Peace and Happiness

My personal goal is to build a machine which can transmute any amount of shit into gold.

You are confusing the word "society" with the word "community"
A society is an organized group of people sharing a common aim or interest. (Medical society, Law society etc ...)
A comunity is a group of people living in the same locality and under the same government.

A society requires a name to exist, a comunity does not. Sorry if I was not clear enough but that is also the point, they enslave us with words.

DeadLizard

I certainly am not confusing the words.....

Community = a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society.

Society = a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests.

A city is a society and a community, everyones collective activity is to make money. I was apologizing for the fact that i might not have been clear enough.....


Much Peace

As far as I'm concerned a society needs a charter, a name and members, and identifying the community at large as "society" is a mistake that keeps us blind to the fact that we are not members of the society that writes and enforces it's rules upon us, often times without our consent.
But it appears we are not on the same page on this matter so I'll just drop it here

Peace

DeadLizard

No worries we see things differently, thats alright then....


Much Peace

http://seasteading.org/

For those who want to leave "normal" society, whatever that is, here is an interesting option.
I'm sure you could get MHRB delivered there. Who knows.

^^sounds cool..real adventerous...I would love to be involved in that one day..since I am absolutily in love with the ocean..except I dunno where I would surf..unless they build some sort of shallow embankment going into the water a ways so waves could form and break..then it would be paradise for me ..kinda like being a pirate!..minus the raiding of course

I dunno what I would beable to contribute to a place liek that right now..maybe when I finish school I could be involved in integrative medicine or something..I guess they would have gardens with lots of medicinal herbs..and I am sure there are TONS of unknown medicines in the ocean yet to be discovered..man that would be soo awesome!

Also kinda reminds me of the stargate atlantis show lol..

Y'all should come live with me on my ethnobotanical, self-sufficient farm (tho it isn't self-sufficient yet and I don't have ALL the plants I want).

I think we've been facing the gradual advent a more permanent and sustainable totalitarianism than any revolutionary or authoritarian effort has ever been able to bring about deliberately. We are being fractured and alienated from each other through our own base impulses by a large-scale effort to appeal to our weakest inclinations toward comfort and comatose. What's worse is that by-and-large, we want this; this effort is populist in nature, and though certain individuals with a greater sway than most have helped to nudge us toward this, they are but an expression of a greater will and as much slaves as the rest of us. This is a symptom of the inevitability of nihilism and is being exacerbated exponentially by the consumer culture of the twentieth century and today. We continue to be plagued by this primarily because our lives are becoming easier and less demanding, but also because we refuse to recognize it and tend to run away from it.

In a way, this is our rebellion against the absurdity of life in general, and the only way to combat such a thing in a healthy manner is through individual strength, passion and exuberance. The best one can hope for for others is that one's own manner of expressing this exuberance contributes to contributes in such a way as to inspire others. However, sometimes the only effective way to accomplish this is through revolution.