Hey good for you. I've been vegan for about 13 years now, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The reasons to follow a plant-based diet are numerous and already well-documented online so I won't go through them all here, but I'd be happy to answer any questions you have if you want.

Good luck!

Yeah, Psychedelics tend to instill the belief the feeling that one has to take the moral high ground in every situation imaginable. While that is a noble pursuit, "What is moral?" remains to be answered. I'm a vegetarian because i feel uneasy with eating animals so i try to avoid it by not eating them on purpose. For me its that simple. I have no idea if veganism really is more healthy but judging from the info i gatherd - it isnt. Is it more just? I don't know either, as there are certainly arguments that would support meat eating such as "the cycle of life", the "food pyramid" arguments etc. I don't judge people for eating meet or not eating meat. It's a personal decision and not really a part of my identity as a person.

I would feel better with less exploitation of people and animals but i'm not jesus so what gives.

My wife had the opposite experience.... She was vegan for 9 years and it was starting to weigh down on her health.... Then she had a ceremony where Salvia showed her all these animals eating each other until a shark ate my wife.

Salvia asked "are you mad at the shark?" and my wife thought "No, the shark was just hungry."

After that Salvia told her to eat some lamb. It was a month or two before my wife was actually ready to try it - took a while to get over some feelings she had developed being vegan for so long. Eventually she started eating meat though and her health improved greatly.

I think plants or other substances really show you what you personally need.

I don't understand why people feel it is just to kill and eat a plant, and not an animal? Maybe that says more about me. I devoted a large portion of my life to being a caretaker for plants, and became a professional gardener. Plants expend energy to preserve life just as animals do. They are no different from us in this respect. They don't like you killing them.

To say that abstaining from meat is a more moral lifeway, is to turn is utter disrespect to the plant kingdom upon which we literally thrive.

Do what you will, but never forget your place and be weary of falling into naive self congratulation.

Life consumes life no matter if it is an animal or plant! Even the vegan/organic salad is fertilized using blood meal-a by product of slaughter...please do not be fooled that by not consuming meat you are stopping any animal from being killed. You are not...the entire "green" movement is nothing more than marketing to get your $$.

Support local farms, buy direct from small operations and stay away from box stores-that is how you can stop industrial farming and mass slaughter facilities. Every small slaughter house I have been in ( I have been in many for my own education) operate very ethically, treating animals with respect and things happen very fast. It is their personal lively hood-NOT just a min wage job...HUGE difference.

Personally, I became anemic with a long list of medical issues when I tried to be vegan for three years. This was with a vegan nutritionist help along the way so please do not comment that I was doing it wrong . I also know long time vegans (10+ years) who had the same issues and are now eating meat.

Some people do not like meat-I can relate to that but being vegan to "help" animals is just wishful thinking. Do what is right for your body, pocket book and local community.

I am inclined to think plants can be conscious on a level far beyond what most people would assume, and think that people should respect them and be grateful when they harvest and not be so self congratulatory on the idea that they aren't harming any life just because they don't eat meat. I don't think they all want to be eaten obviously, even if they fit our physiology more than other foods.

As for suffering though, fruit is often literally designed by the plant to be not only eaten but desirable, and I don't see much reasoning behind the idea that other plants experience suffering at nearly the same level an animal does when a part of it is eaten. The animal nervous system is far more geared towards pain than a plant, for obvious evolutionary reasons, and can't survive when pieces of it are harvested - unlike plants.

Does it hurt kale when they lose a leaf to the same degree that it hurts an animal when it loses a limb?

We might have to agree to disagree on all this since we've had this conversation before. I think at the end of the day we can speculate but we don't know how much plants really suffer when eaten, but we sure as hell know animals do a lot. And to think eating fruit causes the plant suffering is a non issue.

Trying to avoid suffering isn't why I don't eat meat though, or at least definitely not the main reason. I try to avoid the term vegan altogether because it has so many connotations at this point and is an umbrella term for a lot of different ways of eating. Plus I like honey and probably eat a ton of insects throughout all my plant eating

And like pharmer said local is always a good thing to aim for

Go full chemivore! Just amino acid shakes from biochemical reactors, enhanced with minerals, vitamins, omega-3 fatty acids and anabolic steroids. Mr. Snouts approves!

Because eating meat means you're killing more plants than if you just eat plants directly. What do you think those animals ate to become big enough for you to eat? Plants. Lots of them. Way more of them than would have been eaten if you'd just eaten the plants directly.

It's a matter of least harm. We all have to eat to survive, and that means killing something, either plants, or animals AND plants, but you can't kill animals to eat without also accounting for all the plants that animal ate. There's no such thing as not killing plants to eat.

Good point. Also, if you clone the plant, does it have the same consciousnesses as its genetic twin? I highly doubt that you can compare mammalian consciousnesses with plant consciousnesses. The plant consciousnesses is probably a hive mind, where eating the genetic double doesn't equate to killing the individual. Clone a plant, eat the clone, still the original plant is fully alive.

Btw, thanks for the thread OP, I guess we all need to rethink our eating patterns once in a while. I'm going to try out a soy based protein powder next week.

With all due respect this is a logical falacy since when you eat animals you eat way way more plants than you would from a strickly vegan diet due to the meat production/plant consumption ratio of animals. Also, a vegan diet is our "natural" diet, this is a scientific fact. A vegan diet done right and you will not have any health problems. Also, if you consider yourself pro-environment but eat meat I am sorry but you are lying to yourself : look at the data.

ahahah that gave me in return a good laugh Anamnesia !

You know, the most convincing argument for the masses is that a majority hold's a said opinion. So, maybe with time, even if their opinion will not be grounded in anything of intellectual worth, the masses will come to hold the opinions of a minority (not knowing why other than the fact that "every body thinks it to be the right way so it must be the right way" ) and this process will repeat itself over and over again : the working's of history. So I say adapt your language to whom you are speaking with. This is the reason for the origin of the languaged used in all religious text or anything that has for public the masses.

Elitist ? Maybe, but I say this is a concept used to deflect the current focus on "reality" (most people are idiots and must be guided somehow to the "good way" ) towards something else. "Meta-comparative" arguments (false one's) are often used by the intellectually deficient for self defense. For example : "ooo but thats <<judging>>, you should not judge people" (truth : difference between judgement and prejudice). It's not about comparing anybody, it's about truth. It's not about imposing one's belief on anyone, it's about guidance. Guidance grounded in emphaty and what can be considered "valid" sentiments. One can always adopt a nihilistic approach to everything but that is just grounding your whole being in lazyness and fear. Of course conceptual axioms will change all the time : from person to person, from culture to culture, from era to era. But, if the current data/facts/science/logic/etc is saying : X will create Y and we know Y is bad because of loss/diminution/ etc of "equality, respect for nature, etc" then not acting in a way to reduce "Y" is either just bad faith, grounded in nihilism, etc.

My point being that if you show people the facts but they still chose to hold their opinions, which are shit, then to reorient their actions towards what is currently "known" to be "good" in whichever way (in the confines of what is ethical) is what we need to do.

I sort of diverged from the main focus there Sorry this is very close to the heart for me. Please note that I am not attacking anyone personally. I know I can sound harsh sometimes, especially in text.

Fine, show us the data. The fact of the matter is man is an omnivore, hence why we have canine teeth and molars. Man has been eating plants and meat both for well over 100,000 years - if not longer. The idea of veganism as our natural diet is wishful thinking. Don't forget, if man had not learned to cook meat, we would not be having this conversation at all.

http://blogs.scientifica...tarian-hominin-died-out/

I'm not saying veganism is bad or you shouldn't do it, though I think sustainably sourced meat in moderation is good, but you can't act like you're the authority on the matter and state things as facts that simply aren't so without any evidence. Come on man, no one wants an opinion shoved down their throat.

First off, all herbivores have teeth like we do. You think we have canine teeths of carnivores or omnivores ? Look at real carnivores teeths or an omnivores. Secondly, appeal to tradition is also a fallacy. Yes we have been eating meat for a long time, but truth of the matter is we were herbivores way longer before that. We adapted, that is why we are here yes, but being able to, just like having to, does not mean we are meant to. Affirming the opposite is saying : "I had to cut my arm to free myself from this predicament and survive, thus it is my nature to only have one arm". There is scientific evidence prooving that eating meat is the leading cause of most health problems. Our disgestive track is that of an herbivore. Humans eating meat is only proof of our adaptability, not of what is natural to us.

You say I shove my opinion down your troat but the truth is you are doing exactly what you are critisizing. All the Information is already out there for you to find. I am no expert by all means, but I am informed and not just repeating some non sense that has been said over and over (shoved down our troats without us even realising it).

Even if we were omnivores this doesn't justify us eating meat if we are aware of the situation.
Premisse 1 : the environment is in bad shape, thus we must do what we can do protect it
Some facts : http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/
Premisse 2 : the above shows that eating less meat or, even better, no meat is the best thing one can do to help the environment.
Conclusion is obvious

I have had a similar experience while on lsd many years ago. Biting into a hamburger gave instant visions of biting into the side of a cow - hot blood gushing on my face to boot. It influenced a lengthy period of a plant based diet for me. And while I have faded in and out of plant based diets (raw or cooked) over the years, ingesting any psychotropics and eating animals simultaneously is simply not possible for me.

While I have had some unpleasant perceptions with regards to plants being uprooted (tripping or no), I stand with universecannon on this one. Fruit and leaves get a pass on the cruelty.

Incompetent vegan nutritionist?


Bad diet planning for 10 years?


Ethical slaughtering is wishful thinking. It's an oxymoron like socially acceptable rape. Or just wars. Or with the words of Orwell:

In the long run, we are all photosynthesizing sun-gazers. :-)

Notice how I didn't make any conclusions on what we should eat now, just about our past diet. I was simply pointing out where you were asserting "facts" that are not so. Humans have never not been omnivores. And no, pointing out where you made incorrect assertions with no evidence is not jamming an opinion down your throat. Please stop acting like veganism is the be all end all - it's not. Just because you don't feel comfortable with death does not mean others aren't allowed to. If criticizing someone's claims that lack scientific evidence isn't allowed, then what's the point of this forum.

Please, take a step down off your mighty horse and be civil. Being a vegan doesn't make you a better person, and me eating humanely, sustainably sourced meat in moderation is my own perogative.

And for the record, the last time we were herbivores we weren't Homo sapiens. Once again, I'm not bashing veganism (I think it's a great lifestyle for many people, just not myself), but I have a problem with you making statements and asserting them as fact without any evidence. Especially when they're well known to be false.

"Yes we have been eating meat for a long time, but truth of the matter is we were herbivores way longer before that"

Source?

Hell, at least some of yall are definitely opinionated. Beats following the crowd like a twig in the wind..

Three or so times this happened to me. Each time I knew I shouldn't eat while tripping but I did it anyways. It's also happened I've been on the porcelain thrown and been so disgusted by basic bodily function I threw up in the waste basket, I still go to the bathroom though (unlike the supreme and glorious leader of north korea)

I still eat meat too (fyi)

It's part of the experience of tripping. That is, you thinking about things in a different light. Look at what was shown to you and observe it deeply and try to figure out what it means. Maybe in this case it mean you become a vegan, maybe it means to be more mindful about where you get your meat from? Only you can figure that out and make that choice.

Pay particular attention to that last sentence. Only you. YOU. This is a personal decision for you to make. No one can tell you whether it's right or wrong to eat meat or not. Those are personal opinions and morals, not absolute truths.

If you choose to go the vegan route please be mindful of nutrition. Make sure that you have a planned diet to meet your nutrient needs, it can be incredibly difficult to get the right stuff if you stick to a monotonous diet with little variety. There's a wealth of information out there on this topic, so please seek it out in your decision making process. Also figure out where your morals will lie. Is it OK to eat responsibly raised eggs or drink milk? Adding these products in can make nutrients easier to get.

And finally, as an extension of the 'Only you'. This is YOUR decision. So if you do choose to go vegan/vegetarian then do so and mind your own business. For every story a vegan has about being offended by an omnivore. there's an omnivore that's been called a murderer by a proselytizing screaming activist with a chip on their shoulder trying to feel superior. If I offer you a hamburger all I need is a 'no thank you' not a curled up nose, a grimace, an overacted wretch and a soapbox speech about how meat is murder. The same way if you offer me fermented humus I'll just say "no thank you" while I pile on a mountain of cool ranch doritos to my plate.