A totality of trillions of neurons interacting within a network.

What if all those neurons where little grey men comprised of trillions of other neurons and that network a neuron interacting with other neurons themselves being networks ?

All thought is concept and concept is mere illusion ? The concept of I is a concept thus an illusion like all others. I ones wrote a poem similar to yours (albeit yours is much better) after having woken up from a very special dream that was singing a song : the bootstraps are replaced by an anchor if I understood correctly. Did I ? Maybe you don't know either.

Why do you say mere as if illusion were just an illusion -
illusion and reality are the same experience.
The ego, our sense of self, our particular patternings' of personality,
are like whirlpools in a great stream, each a fairly distinguishable distance from the next,
and they are all moving though transient yet completely still in their proper places in the water.

The form is of the void, the void of the form.
Just as pattern is of form, and form of the pattern.

Hmm. Void --> Form --> Pattern? or/and Form --> Void --> Pattern?

The concept of I is a concept. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. I feel so sorry for me.

The bootstraps are replaced by an anchor. But anchors are heavy and cold in their homes at the bottom of the sea. Anchors are nothing. Bootstraps are nothing.
Good god am I lying to you!

But you don't experience the illusion you only experience the "reality" which is, in this sense, the illusion. If all is false, the "reality" is the false representation of a said thing : an illusion. An illusion can only stay an illusion if one believes in it, that it is real. Onces you know that "reality" is an illusion you don't experience the illusion anymore but the un-reality of the "reality". The illusion is only a veil, an unnecessary apparatus in disguise that is designed to fool you into thinking it is "reality". It is attached to things which cannot be rendered to be absolute truths since they have no true foundation, like all things in life, but the coupling of these things with the veil creates "reality" and it is only this we experience. That is why I say a mere illusion : onces you are conscious of it you cannot experience it. Why ? Because of the very fact that you know that you don't know, that it is, or might be, false. In our minds it is phenomenologically impossible to experience an illusion because the concept of illusion is only alive while a false relation from objet to subject subsist : the experience of "reality" as described above. The illusion is therefore only a product-of and not directly involved or part of the experience. In short, the illusion is an illusion upon itself in that it renders itself has "reality", but it can only exist while this function, i.e the false relation, is accomplished.

The form is of the void, the void of the form.
Just as pattern is of form, and form of the pattern.

The surface seals the volume but the volume opens up the possibility for a surface to exist. The volume is the void and the surface is the form.

I like the idea of questioning whether you are lying or not. How could we be uncertain of lying if a lie is consciously hiding information ? Maybe all information is considered possibly false at the moment, this would explain the question since a false lie is the truth and a false truth a lie.

I don't really have anything to add...I just find this to be elegant and well said. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing!

I experience myself ~ I let go of mindness ~ I flow ~ I come in waves of moments of I am now reality (highest resolution of I am human experience) ~ I expand these moments ~ I stay in the moment, is now, is I am.

tseuq

Spacious and silent awareness within being presently still and as is. Recognizing that all is without your attachment or attention to it. Our sole being and universality. By creating this thread was only just a thought. We are not our thoughts.. our thoughts project this.

Hey everyone,

This idea - by creating this thread was only just a thought (The Cognitive Heart) -
is an expression of the point.

SpartanII: I had quite the belly laugh at the mind blown man!!! That was hilarious. Because I just scrolled down from Pixar's post about illusion and then saw that picture - ahhh that was perfect. I love the Nexus.

Grateful One: Thank you for your kind words.

Pixar!!! :

But you don't experience the illusion you only experience the "reality" which is, in this sense, the illusion.
Yes. The world of nirvana and the everyday world is the same world.

If all is false, the "reality" is the false representation of a said thing : an illusion. An illusion can only stay an illusion if one believes in it, that it is real. Once you know that "reality" is an illusion (STOP here. After this, further explanation destroys the point) you don't experience the illusion anymore but the un-reality of the "reality".

Ahhh yes indeed, but would you understand me if I said that is saying too much?
I want to say this - because, by merely distinguishing (and I truly understand what you're saying) between unreality and reality, even after we think we've finally found out IT - the moment we recognize the illusion of reality, and then later contrast the new view with the old view, we again beset ourselves with the insoluble immortal inordinate problem of coming off the pretense that the darkness, the night, the nothingness of death, will eventually overcome all things, all light. This is why in Zen the duality between nothing on the one hand, and something on the other hand, is not made. This is why the fundamental principle of buddhism reads 'that which is form, is precisely, void - and that which is void, is precisely, form. So therefore, in exactly the same way, the concepts illusion and reality too easily imply the same duality in our minds. This is because our minds are infantile and fragile, but that is only because we're not used to communicating what can never be said. Same game, Different concepts. Like Same Self, Different faces.

The illusion is only a veil, an unnecessary apparatus in disguise that is designed to fool you into thinking it is "reality".
True, by virtue the Real You. You put it there.


It is attached to things which cannot be rendered to be absolute truths since they have no true foundation, like all things in life, but the coupling of these things with the veil creates "reality" and it is only this we experience. That is why I say a mere illusion : onces you are conscious of it you cannot experience it. Why ? Because of the very fact that you know that you don't know, that it is, or might be, false.
Well said.

In our minds it is phenomenologically impossible to experience an illusion because the concept of illusion is only alive while a false relation from object to subject subsist : the experience of "reality" as described above.
Yup, absolutely well said!

The illusion is therefore only a product-of and not directly involved or part of the experience.
Hmmm. Having lost myself in Dream, is this not what I intended in the Beginning?
To go so far out - having forgotten the riddle I confused myself with,
to stumble about, thinking it through - through the multifarious Me,
on fire for life forever.

In short, the illusion is an illusion upon itself in that it renders itself has "reality", but it can only exist while this function, i.e the false relation, is accomplished.
The false relation is the true relation.
The true relation is the false relation.
The false relation is the true relation.
The true relation is the false relation.


The surface seals the volume but the volume opens up the possibility for a surface to exist. The volume is the void and the surface is the form.
It's statements like that so profound that eliminate confounding. I wonder if you know what it means.

I like the idea of questioning whether you are lying or not. How could we be uncertain of lying if a lie is consciously hiding information ? Maybe all information is considered possibly false at the moment, this would explain the question since a false lie is the truth and a false truth a lie.
Lying to you is the same as lying to myself. That one half of us, the I, that is also you, won't however know what the other half is doing - and that's why Alan Watts called the universe the game of Self, playing the game of hide and seek with Itself, forever and ever.

Anyway, thanks for posting everyone, I really appreciate these forums. This place is a great outlet for me, personally.
Please expect only positive intent from me in my posts and replies, even if they sound rude. Please know I'm writing with you, not at you. There isn't a contest going on. I say this because it so often happens that with solely textual communication, an essential dimension (body language and so on) of communication is lost.

Peace.

There is nothing to distinguishing it is only two ways of experiencing the same thing in a different way and onces you experience the unreality of "reality" you experience "the insoluble immortal inordinate problem of coming off the pretense that the darkness, the night, the nothingness of death, will eventually overcome all things, all light." Just like you said at this point there is no need for the logically dualistic mindset. The "reality" is not duelling with the illusion, like you have said, we are saying the same thing I believe.



Humm, well yes ! I didn't see it that way the first time I read it ^.^!


It's statements like that so profound that eliminate confounding. I wonder if you know what it means. Cool


I like to believe I do ! I actually wrote a short story with it has one of the themes !




I like that thought a lot !!


And I enjoyed talking a lot with you ! I do this only to render things in my own language so I can better understand what your point is and at the same time maybe we can both learn something, I did. There is no competition what so ever I assure you.



^ This applies equally for me as well !

...we are saying the same thing I believe.



I do this only to render things in my own language so I can better understand what your point is and at the same time maybe we can both learn something, I did.

I like that strategy! - because of the reality of relativity - I cannot know Me without You!


Quoting A.Watts:

When you look out of your eyes - at nature happening 'out-there' - you're looking at You, the Real You, the You that goes on of itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXmz605GAnc

My pleasures.

Yes ! Now show me who I am ! lol

I have heard this talk of Watts before, but not with this music

I find it kind of funny, but it does a swell job at making a place for itself in my mind


You Wu wei ?

Of course a master knows wu-wei!
It's how he knows.

Alan Watts was a genius - his mind was-is huge.
I've been absorbed, obsessed, and captivated by this extraordinary human being.
I grew up without a father. I've often looked back there into the past with a condemnatory attitude,
thinking what a shame it is I never had a Gandalf in my life - a wise and sincere mind with which to become embedded in and at the same time grow out from it.

Well, about five years ago, I found that video I showed you somehow. And basically fell in love with the wisdom of Alan Watts. I listened(still do) to this man compulsively. I talked about what he talked about with the few friends I had. I picked up ultimately his entire terminology. I am sincere and deepestly-passionate when I say to you,

I've never met, heard of, seen, or recognized any human being as perspicaciously wise as he was.
Don't even get me started on the brilliance of Terence McKenna. I'll tell you this though.
While everyone else was at such and such university majoring in whatever,
I was majoring in Alan Watts And Terence Mckenna @ Alan Watts And Terence Mckenna University.

Settle into immortal time. Fall into soundless sound.
The pure wisdom of Alan Watts
The pure understanding of Terence Mckenna
Their voices chatter singing in the song of my soul.

It's gotten to the point that I can ask them questions in my mind.
It's so interesting to see what they say.
And it's always struck me that Alan Watts is wiser.

It is always me who is experiencing, I am my own determination, so there is no need to worry about "the others", I set my intentions and choose my panorama. The more I am open, the more I am free to choose, if I want to choose at all. When I lock myself behind minded-emotional-glasses, a specific mindset, I limit my experience/perception to the view through this glasses.

I don't know anything. I have no general councils, no absolute truth to share, expect my personal experience, thus I ask questions and only talk about myself, which is a collective. I am connected and thus in exchange.



It is me who gives depth to everything, it is my own depth, myself what reflects itself. I am the one there is, I am.

My way crossed the idea/concept of Zen and the talks of Alan Watts just recently and I had a good laugh when I first listend to some of his entertaining talks. "This man is talking about what I experience."

Nevertheless, I let go, I am liquid, one in the now.



love and peace, tseuq

Thank you for sharing that Anamnesia ! I can relate to what you have said.

And YES Alan Watts and Terence Mckenna are both genius. Apples and Oranges



I feel that tseuq : wise words. I believe that is the ultimate goal in life : to be your own determination. Although, if I may add : to be your own determination in it's purest form, because there are impure ones. I feel like this state is impossible to constantly keep with you, but I am working on it.

I reread your comment tseuq - I'm amazed. "This man is talking about what I experience".
Now, I'm not in the crowd of worshippers, but I want to comment on this point you raise.
Someone called him a great bodhisattva. And I believe it. I've not met nor known anyone wiser.
A bodhisattva is a being that has come back from nirvana to be in the service of helping to deliver all other beings to the other shore. And that is the shore beyond suffering. That is the shore right here now in front of us.
And in my interactions with members here at the nexus in the previous week or so there is this particular feeling that the people on the other end of this backlit keyboard will understand what I'm talking about - whatever that is.
I really feel for the first time in my life I am among friends. I'm simply astounded by it. I suppose it's a feeling that one grows use to.

Anyway, Alan Watts is always the teacher to which I point. He was mine. After a while I couldn't tell the difference between that voice in my head called Alan or the voice in my head called Me. I found there isn't a difference.
He once said, "... now if you realize that it's all of a piece you are at peace". And I am at peace, except for a few wrinkles here and there - without which I would simply disappear. But if we had sages like that in political office; that's exactly the point. Sages don't take office, and that's exactly what we need.