DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 57 Joined: 12-Apr-2012 Last visit: 07-Dec-2023 Location: Emerald City
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I wanted to ask this community on their opinions in the matter. I am sure that these concepts have been discussed in one way or another before but I wanted to ask the question directly? Is Altruism/selflessness just another illusion? Some would argue that it is, and that the perception of an individual self is the only reality. Or that the self is the illusion. In brief, my opinion is bolth are illusions, each serving a purpose in understanding the one consciousness. Please feel free to elaborate, criticize, or just share your opinion. All feed back is appreciated. Thank you. "Realty is a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs." -Lily Tomlin
The cosmos is viewed as a spontaneous act of ongoing creation arising out of a womb-like emptiness with unlimited potential.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 16-Apr-2024 Location: Jungle
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I like gurdjieff's idea, that to be an altruist, one must first learn to be a conscious egoist. I'll leave this comment for now, gotta go sleep. 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1045 Joined: 12-Mar-2010 Last visit: 12-Apr-2024 Location: Urf
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I think it largely is an illusion. I am for the two-way street, where two people benefit from an activity simultaneously. example: sex. My aim is to expand my sense of self as much as possible, and be as selfish as possible. When I have included others in my sense of self (when I identify with others) my selfishness naturally becomes what is commonly viewed as kindness, altruism, generosity. From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1045 Joined: 12-Mar-2010 Last visit: 12-Apr-2024 Location: Urf
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I think it largely is an illusion. I am for the two-way street, where two people benefit from an activity simultaneously. example: sex. My aim is to expand my sense of self as much as possible, and be as selfish as possible. When I have included others in my sense of self (when I identify with others) my selfishness naturally becomes what is commonly viewed as kindness, altruism, generosity. From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1116 Joined: 11-Sep-2011 Last visit: 09-Aug-2020
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"Warriors are incapable of feeling compassion because they no longer feel sorry for themselves. Without the driving force of self-pity, compassion is meaningless."“He (Don Juan) said that a warrior had no compassion for anyone. For him, to have compassion meant that you wished the other person to be like you, to be in your shoes, and you lent a hand for that purpose. The hardest thing in the world is for a warrior to let others be. Only a sorcerer who sees and is formless can afford to help anyone——to his understanding every effort to help on our part was an arbitrary act guided by our self interest alone.”-Carlos Castaneda In other words, when we feel compassion for another, maybe in a way we are actually feeling pity for ourself through the other person. Also, maybe a distinction can be made between empathy and compassion, the former being a more direct experience of reality and the latter an interpretation. This is, of course, from the perspective of dualism. If we are all One, as the Mystical/Transcendent/Godhead experience implies, then empathy one feels towards another is essentially a reflection of oneself, or, in the language of quantum mechanics, entanglement. Not making any claims, just some things to ponder... A similar point of view can be found in this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=512884#post512884 SpartanII wrote:anon_003 wrote:Sometimes you NEED to focus on the bad stuff - like when it affects you or people you care about. Most of the time, the way we come up with solutions to our problems are from focusing on what the issue is and what we can do to fix it.
True, it's wise to have awareness of "the bad stuff", but I think a distinction needs to be made in how we focus on it and the level of ego-attachment that is involved. There is a difference between simply observing a "bad" or "negative" thing or situation vs. becoming identified with it to such a degree that it traps our attention, affects our own happiness, and drains us of energy. For example, it can be sad to hear about the cruel treatment of children or animals. Even though having awareness of it can empower us to make a change, most of the time we have very little control over what happens in life, yet we can change how we choose to respond to it. Free will, baby! Yeah!  We can respond with compassion (only to the degree to which we can relate to their suffering since we are not them and obviously don't necessarily feel the same exact suffering that they feel), but if we become too attached and respond with pity we become identified with their suffering; we become it. This is the same process that happens in meditation in which we become so identified with the object of our meditation we merge with it and become it, (except in this context the results are usually more "positive" since we usually meditate on something neutral or that produces peace or joy). It seems the degree to which our egos identify with or are attached to something or someone is equal to the degree of suffering we experience when we lose that something. Hence is the delicate nature of temporal experience.  Maybe the secret lies in finding a balance between attachment and detachment, compassion and indifference, love and fear?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 673 Joined: 18-Jan-2015 Last visit: 06-Dec-2023
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endlessness wrote:I like gurdjieff's idea, that to be an altruist, one must first learn to be a conscious egoist.  SpartanII wrote:This is, of course, from the perspective of dualism. tseuq Everything's sooo peyote-ful..
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1178 Joined: 12-Oct-2010 Last visit: 08-Jan-2022
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Maybe true selflessness or altruism is an illusion as ultimately one only ever gives to oneself, there is no other, but seeing that, who will not readily give themselves?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 673 Joined: 18-Jan-2015 Last visit: 06-Dec-2023
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To me selflessness and altruism are concepts in first line, they describe distinct behaviour(patterns). The identification with these concepts, like thinking of myself to be a selfless/altruistic person I call an illusion (/illusory act). I am one in the now. tseuq Everything's sooo peyote-ful..
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 58 Joined: 23-Jan-2014 Last visit: 31-Jan-2021 Location: usa
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I have come to differentiate between selfishness and enlightened selfishness. Selfishness being motivated by egoistic concerns/needs. Enlightened selfishness is the understanding that one benefits by acting without egoistic concerns but out of conscious love/understanding/compassion. By doing so, we, as a byproduct, become less egoistic, happier and more in touch with our true "selves".
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