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Vaporhuasca: A Venerable Climax of Existential Anguish Options
 
RAM
#1 Posted : 7/2/2015 9:56:55 PM

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First I want to apologize if anything comes off as incoherent, or if it seems like I am trying to define you or people as a whole with this post. I just tried to detail all of the thoughts I have, and it's difficult to tell at this time if they are distorted or truthful, although I have an impending sense that these realizations are true to me.

---

I have wanted to experience DMT under the influence of a MAOI for a long time now. I have been using some full spectrum Syrian rue extract in small doses to get accustomed to the harmala experience, which has treated me very well. Last night I did yoga for about four hours including a puja celebration honoring the full moon. A girl into astrology at the studio said something about how the moon last night was a very special one as it was “releasing a lot of energy that has been building up since 2012.” Now I am not really into astrology at all, but all of these factors came together nicely, so I decided to have my first vaporhuasca experience.

Now on the DMT Nexus I surprisingly could not find too many threads about vaporhuasca specifically. Most of the focus seems to be on vaped DMT, changa, ayahuasca and pharmahuasca. I did find a couple posts that helped me establish some basic things (like how long I should wait after eating the harmala to vape the DMT). So at 11:38 PM last night I ate 200 mg of full spectrum Syrian Rue extract. At around 12:10 AM, I smoked 30-40 mg of DMT. Now these dosage seemed right for me, but as always they might be too intense or too weak for others! I was in my house in a totally safe, dark environment as well. I covered the clock right before blasting off, so I lost any concept of time that I had.

What happened next was not too surprising at first. My mind flew into the square dimensions that usually comprise my trips to hyperspace. My perspective “fell out from behind me,” and I was completely immersed in the DMT world. Entities were running wild, some reading magazines for some reason, some dancing in front of me, making fun of me, etc. All pretty normal. I cannot tell how long this state lasted, but it ended fairly shortly.

To preface, I get extremely hypercritical during DMT trips. It’s like LSD for me but much more intense. I criticize everything, and it all just seems like a joke to me. Often this is a harrowing and very uncomfortable experience, but I do learn a lot about people and society from it. At this point, I have pretty much resigned myself to having slightly traumatic trips for the explicit purpose of improving myself and my analytical skills.

But with the MAOI, I thought I would be able to surpass this level of hyper-criticality. I truly thought that the hypercritical state could be passed up by lengthening and intensifying the DMT experience. I thought I would become a simple awareness, if that, floating through hyperspace and just letting the entities and environments come to me. But I was utterly mistaken.

After the familiar flash of vaped DMT ended, I opened my eyes to my dark room. I started having visions and babbling on like a crazy person. I kept thinking that if anybody saw me in that state, they would think I was completely insane. I was tossing my arms around and making critical little remarks to and about myself. I had a vision of killing myself with a knife which was quite terrifying. There were too many stimuli even though I was laying on the floor in a dark room. I kept yelling, “I get it! I get it!” I understand that everything is a joke. That our reality is fake. Nothing is serious. There is no meaning. I get it! But why did it have to hurt so much? Why did it keep being shown to me? Enough!

I wanted to end the experience, and I thought I had some Xanax around somewhere. But I had to know if it was safe, and to know that, I would have to look it up. At this point I struggled to get off of the floor, as I kept falling back and telling myself that it was just easier and more comfortable to lie down. Eventually I somehow got over to the light and switched it on. I winced at the light, but once I looked at my room I knew how hard I was tripping. And it was the hardest in my life. I stumbled over to my desk and tried looking up if the Xanax would help me on my phone. I couldn’t find anything, so I had to turn on my computer.

Google must have known I was tripping. Who searches “vaporhuasca dosage” followed by “does Xanax stop vaporhuasca”? People who are on vaporhuasca, that’s who. But this is beside the point, I didn’t care about that, but it was something that popped in my head. I couldn’t find anything definitive except that people on MAOIs shouldn’t mix it with Xanax, so I held off. But here is when I started becoming extremely cold. Mind you I was just in my shirt and underpants in a previously air-conditioned room, but while on a new combination of drugs that wasn’t something I was thinking about. I started to feel myself dying. And all I wished for was that nothing permanent would happen to me as a result of this trip. I did not want my future self to have to deal with any problems caused by my past self. I continued to feel anxiety over this, and it manifested in my desire to keep myself alive (no surprise). So I went on the DMT Nexus chat to seek help.

Now I often have problems with the chat because I never know if it’s appropriate to interrupt people’s conversations. I am not great with a lot of informal social situations, and I certainly don’t want to make a bad impression on a forum of people I like and get along with. But since I felt like my life was at risk, I just came out with the fact that I was on vaporhuasca. The people on the chat were nice and helpful. Special thanks goes out to DeDao for telling me to put socks on. It seems simple but that little tip greatly improved my life at the time, so I am very grateful. I can’t remember the names of the others who helped me calm down, but thanks nonetheless.

I looked up symptoms of vasoconstriction and worried that my coldness might have arisen from the 200 mg of harmalas since I have never taken that much before (I have only taken like 50 mg max). I didn’t match any of the symptoms, and I got a little happier once I knew that I probably wouldn’t die. I was just so concerned because even with all of the DMT/MAOI experiences I have read about, I have never come across anyone really saying extreme coldness would occur. But after putting on pants, socks, and a sweater, I felt a lot better physically.

As humans however, we tend to just latch on to the next worst problem. I kept saying to myself, “If I know I’m going to live I’ll be ok. Once I get that solved I’ll be totally fine.” But once I solved it, it was on to the next thing. I couldn’t remember what I was doing ten seconds ago. The crazy part is that I have dealt with a person who lost his mind on LSD. He wasn’t able to remember anything, but he did not have a logically functioning mind either. In this vaporhuasca induced state, I had a “functioning” mind (I was able to interact with the people on chat, write, type, etc.) but just not much of a memory. I suppose this is due to the extreme stimuli I was receiving. I have yet to mention that everything I wrote above took place over the course of maybe only 20 minutes. But now I understand when people say “it lasts an eternity.” I had previously discounted or maybe just not thought about that before. But it’s very true. I couldn’t believe it when I looked at the clock on my computer at that point and saw that only 20 minutes or so had elapsed.

Anyway, since I knew I was not able to remember things from 10 seconds ago, I started questioning myself. “Well maybe I was just running through the streets? I could have been since I don’t remember it.” Although realistically I would have remembered such a change in my environment, but again I could not make the thought leave my mind. My thoughts also felt extremely powerful, and I did not want to take the risk of manifesting something I was thinking about (I did not want to break into the neighbor’s house for example). I realized it was a negative thought loop but it was still a difficult thing to escape. I decided that I would be much happier if someone was there with me to make sure I wasn’t going too crazy. So I texted my friend who lives nearby to come over. It was 1 AM at this point but he agreed to run over after a while.

A lot of time elapsed from when I first texted my friend and when he actually arrived. So I took to writing. I had a sneaking suspicion that I would not remember any of that experience in the morning, and although that ended up being false, I wanted to record as much of my mindset as possible. So I started writing my thoughts and experiences down on the paper I laid out before the trip.

The first thing I wrote in giant, serious letters was:

NO SYMBOLS

As in, no symbols had meaning. Meaning was destroyed. That is where the title of my post (a phrase I realized later on) comes from. I was in a state of total existential agony. Nothing had any meaning at all. And you know, it’s easy to say that, but feeling and experiencing it first hand is a totally different and much more powerful thing. I went on the write, “Everything is criticized, I am a joke, it’s all meaningless. All mocked. Any action, work, gesture, object.” And of course:

YOU DON’T WANT THIS
THIS IS TOO INTENSE


Now at this point this seems like a bad trip. And I guess it was, but I do not like to classify trips as good or bad really. It made me feel horrible during, I suppose, but the realizations are golden. I do not like to lie to myself. I refuse to live under any lies. And what vaporhuasca did for me was bring out my beliefs and thoughts from my subconscious. It dug up memories from the past and gave me the tools to analyze the world. I was completely honest with myself during. And I wasn’t going to hold it back in my notes.

I continued to analyze everything. I would just continue to analyze the joke of our existence, whereas on normal vaped DMT I would just get a thought like this and it would be gone shortly after. But what the MAOI basically does is extend the experience. I thought it would boost me further into hyperspace and I would not have to deal with all of the social criticisms that I normally have to endure. But as I said, this is not what happened at all. It did not extend hyperspace for me; it extended the physical and mental feeling of being on DMT. Not the entities or environments. Maybe it differs for others and with other methods, but I cannot speak to that.

I went to my window and watched for my friend. Maybe 30 minutes had passed at this point. I felt like a dog waiting for its owner to come home by just staring out the window. And as an example of my “continuing trains of analysis,” I started to imagine what it would be like to be a dog. I felt as if I could see what they see. I thought about their existence and how they interpret the world. I began thinking about how powerful this state really is, as it gave me the power to freely consider and dive deeper into anything I wanted to think about. I suppose this is one of my goals for psychedelic use (to be honest I think we all have reasons we do it), but at the time it didn’t seem like it was worth the near-insanity I was experiencing.

My friend arrived shortly and calmed me down. This is the same friend who lost his mind on LSD, so he knows what goes on. He talked with me and asked me about what I was thinking. I prefer doing vaped DMT alone because of how short the experience is, and I thought that would be ok with the vaporhuasca too. But for me, I think it’s better to have a friend nearby on this so I don’t spiral toward insanity and worry about my actions. He did not necessarily agree with the things I was saying, as he is much more laid back than I am and does not care about a lot of things, so it is easier not to be critical.

As we were talking I began to regain a little bit of clarity, and after an hour or so I was composing and verbalizing complicated thoughts and ideas. But the crazy part is that my vision was still completely distorted and my mind still critical. I started to have some better realizations here. I realized that I am human too. I am a monkey. As a psychedelic drug user and armchair-philosopher it’s easy to want to be removed from the disgusting human-monkey world that we live in. It’s easy to want to be removed from the concepts we see on television, like people being popular, social, outcasts, smart, ignorant, etc. We all want to think that our lives are unique or special in some way. But they’re not.

This is not a new realization for me. I have gotten it on pretty much all my LSD uses before. I think it has to do with the dissolution of the ego. Once my identity was shattered and analytically torn apart, it’s easy to see how absolutely nothing in my life is special or unique. I am just 1 of over 7,000,000,000 people on this planet and am nothing really. There are so many people with so much going on, but no one person is really that special. And when you consider the size of our universe (if there even is a limited size), our existence seems plain trite.

I realized that the only reason we really get up in the morning is to feed our animal instincts. That is how we got here. We evolved and if you don’t eat, drink, go to the bathroom, sleep, and take care of your body, then you will not be around to spread our existence. It’s like a Darwinian thing in my opinion as well as a philosophical idea. The only beings that are alive are the ones who do things to stay alive. And that is us. And no matter how we try to distort it, disguise it, or claim otherwise, we all share these needs. No one is above being human. It’s easy to say and even believe we live for other reasons, but I am starting to have serious doubts about why we even keep this whole system going.

Now the question comes down to so what? There’s nothing I can really do about this. At this point I had a little internal dialogue going about meaninglessness. So am I just an awareness, a little bit of consciousness, trapped in a physical body? Well yes, but it’s about how you handle it. Will you be a depressive who lies in bed all day and wants to kill himself? Or will you be someone who treats life like an art project? How you choose to respond to the abyss is what defines us, not how we accept it. Yes as humans we live to feed our instinctual desires and we will die out and simply not be here if we don’t. But humans have this interpretation of existing as form before function, existence before essence. We are born and have to fulfill our needs to stay alive. But besides that, any purpose we think we have was probably instilled by society, meaning it is not intrinsic to our existence. So it appears as if we have agency to define our own meaning, even if the meaning we give ourselves has no meaning behind itself. Again, it’s how we treat the absurd.

I live for hedonistic pleasure, and I very well think most people do. Every choice we make is pretty much based on selfishness at least on some level. I do not want to lie to myself and give myself a fake reason for existing. So I think what it comes down to, for me at least, is continuing to exist for absurd pleasure. Our reality is a joke and there is nothing meaningful at all that can really be found here, but it does not matter that things do not matter. I think it helps to be honest with ourselves though, as the lies about our purpose here just seem to cause strife, which ultimately takes away from us feeling good.

My friend eventually left, and I was grateful for him coming and talking to me. I could have just isolated myself in my bed and let the experience ride itself out, but I actually laughed and realized new stuff when talking with him. I went to sleep and slept for about 8 hours. I am feeling much better now, although I am definitely still a little out of it. I think I am going to take a break from the DMT and MAOI combo for a while to integrate. I do like the intellectual and happy state that harmalas provide however, and I foresee myself becoming a much larger proponent of using harmalas. They really are a fascinating (and legal) substance that match my intellectual interests well. I can reserve the DMT for when I think I need to take another dive into the absurdity and meaninglessness of our existence.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Jin
#2 Posted : 7/3/2015 12:15:41 AM

yes


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yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss



RAM wrote:
Our reality is a joke and there is nothing meaningful at all that can really be found here, but it does not matter that things do not matter


love matters

illusions !, there are no illusions
there is only that which is the truth
 
spacexplorer
#3 Posted : 7/3/2015 1:34:19 AM

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Nothing really matters -queen

And it's true but it doesn't matter

Also why do you feel the need to put yourself through such egoic overintellectual hell trips just to torment your ego with more analytical realizations? Does all the knowledge you cling to help in any way besides building a bigger ivory tower?
 
RAM
#4 Posted : 7/3/2015 7:26:16 AM

Hail the keys!


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spacexplorer wrote:
Also why do you feel the need to put yourself through such egoic overintellectual hell trips just to torment your ego with more analytical realizations? Does all the knowledge you cling to help in any way besides building a bigger ivory tower?


You know, I've thought about this very thing before. I had a small crisis over the fact that I was using psychedelics to improve myself. This was particularly bothering me after one DMT trip, so I went on the chat here and had a long discussion with alkan0id about it.

We came to the conclusion that ego-boosting and self-improvement are two different things, and although they can occur at the same time, I am not trying to boost my ego with tripping. While I will admit there is an element of "wow I did that and not a lot of other people have or could handle it," my intentions are focused around becoming a better, happier person.

Also my intellectual pursuits provide me pleasure, which is pretty much my ultimate goal at this point. But I'm curious, why do other people choose to use drugs? Isn't it pretty much the same, everyone looking for realizations, experiences, and feelings?

Check out this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=569456#post569456

A lot of the reasons listed by fellow Nexians for doing DMT involve having insights and gaining a deeper understanding of the world. Maybe my insights take a more intellectual form, but that is how my analysis is inclined because I constantly think about philosophical topics.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
FiniteFox
#5 Posted : 7/3/2015 3:55:36 PM
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Nice report! Agreed, not enough vapourhuasca specific info. For me, it's like regular aya, you pulse in and out of the dream world to some cosmic heartbeat. I will second the proposition that love matters, above all.
IMO.

-ff
 
spacexplorer
#6 Posted : 7/3/2015 7:55:20 PM

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RAM wrote:
spacexplorer wrote:
Also why do you feel the need to put yourself through such egoic overintellectual hell trips just to torment your ego with more analytical realizations? Does all the knowledge you cling to help in any way besides building a bigger ivory tower?


You know, I've thought about this very thing before. I had a small crisis over the fact that I was using psychedelics to improve myself. This was particularly bothering me after one DMT trip, so I went on the chat here and had a long discussion with alkan0id about it.

We came to the conclusion that ego-boosting and self-improvement are two different things, and although they can occur at the same time, I am not trying to boost my ego with tripping. While I will admit there is an element of "wow I did that and not a lot of other people have or could handle it," my intentions are focused around becoming a better, happier person.

Also my intellectual pursuits provide me pleasure, which is pretty much my ultimate goal at this point. But I'm curious, why do other people choose to use drugs? Isn't it pretty much the same, everyone looking for realizations, experiences, and feelings?

Check out this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=569456#post569456

A lot of the reasons listed by fellow Nexians for doing DMT involve having insights and gaining a deeper understanding of the world. Maybe my insights take a more intellectual form, but that is how my analysis is inclined because I constantly think about philosophical topics.


Hmm interesting, you might not be trying to boost your ego but aren't all these intellectual insights part of the ego? I always can't tell online because you never know if a person truly knows or it's just an ego knowing so I can't say but it seems like whenever I go on a bad trip it's because my ego is not surrendering and is trying to cling onto all these insights do you have that at all? If you just "let go" you can gain all the insights more than the ego could ever hold have you tried that?
 
RAM
#7 Posted : 7/4/2015 6:49:00 AM

Hail the keys!


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spacexplorer wrote:
Hmm interesting, you might not be trying to boost your ego but aren't all these intellectual insights part of the ego? I always can't tell online because you never know if a person truly knows or it's just an ego knowing so I can't say but it seems like whenever I go on a bad trip it's because my ego is not surrendering and is trying to cling onto all these insights do you have that at all? If you just "let go" you can gain all the insights more than the ego could ever hold have you tried that?


Well now I'd have to ask "what defines the ego?" Honestly I've never been too clear on what exactly it is, and it seems like on most psychedelic forums and even threads everyone seems to be using some disparate definition.

I like to view "losing your ego" as essentially losing your identity but not necessarily your mind. I had a friend describe it, I thought elegantly, when he said, "There is no 'me' anymore" although he used his name in place of 'me.' Others seem to view losing your ego as totally losing your mind, like happened to the friend I described in my original post, but I do not generally like this definition, as I do not think that this goal of losing the ego that we always try to attain should have to involve going crazy and running all over causing trouble for yourself.

I tried to let myself go in different parts of the trip, and funnily enough I vaped DMT again yesterday and had this exact experience. I just cleared my mind as I so often do in yoga/meditation just to feel the experience. I guess I was not doing that during my vaporhuasca journey, but I do have a faint memory of at least trying.

I suppose my question for you, besides asking what the ego is exactly, is how one can tell the difference between his or herself knowing and the ego knowing? What does that mean?
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
spacexplorer
#8 Posted : 7/4/2015 10:38:51 AM

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RAM wrote:
spacexplorer wrote:
Hmm interesting, you might not be trying to boost your ego but aren't all these intellectual insights part of the ego? I always can't tell online because you never know if a person truly knows or it's just an ego knowing so I can't say but it seems like whenever I go on a bad trip it's because my ego is not surrendering and is trying to cling onto all these insights do you have that at all? If you just "let go" you can gain all the insights more than the ego could ever hold have you tried that?


Well now I'd have to ask "what defines the ego?" Honestly I've never been too clear on what exactly it is, and it seems like on most psychedelic forums and even threads everyone seems to be using some disparate definition.

I like to view "losing your ego" as essentially losing your identity but not necessarily your mind. I had a friend describe it, I thought elegantly, when he said, "There is no 'me' anymore" although he used his name in place of 'me.' Others seem to view losing your ego as totally losing your mind, like happened to the friend I described in my original post, but I do not generally like this definition, as I do not think that this goal of losing the ego that we always try to attain should have to involve going crazy and running all over causing trouble for yourself.

I tried to let myself go in different parts of the trip, and funnily enough I vaped DMT again yesterday and had this exact experience. I just cleared my mind as I so often do in yoga/meditation just to feel the experience. I guess I was not doing that during my vaporhuasca journey, but I do have a faint memory of at least trying.

I suppose my question for you, besides asking what the ego is exactly, is how one can tell the difference between his or herself knowing and the ego knowing? What does that mean?


I guess a litmus test would be to see how you're feeling. If you know there is absolutely no point or reason to living and all those other things you mentioned in your post that you know but you still feel great (not numb) and you're perfectly fine (not numb) with knowing those things then I'd say it's not your ego(not attached or identified with those beliefs). If you know that same thing and feel devastated it's probably your ego hanging on.
 
Doc Buxin
#9 Posted : 7/6/2015 10:03:02 PM

Pay No Mind


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spacexplorer wrote:
RAM wrote:
spacexplorer wrote:
Hmm interesting, you might not be trying to boost your ego but aren't all these intellectual insights part of the ego? I always can't tell online because you never know if a person truly knows or it's just an ego knowing so I can't say but it seems like whenever I go on a bad trip it's because my ego is not surrendering and is trying to cling onto all these insights do you have that at all? If you just "let go" you can gain all the insights more than the ego could ever hold have you tried that?


Well now I'd have to ask "what defines the ego?" Honestly I've never been too clear on what exactly it is, and it seems like on most psychedelic forums and even threads everyone seems to be using some disparate definition.

I like to view "losing your ego" as essentially losing your identity but not necessarily your mind. I had a friend describe it, I thought elegantly, when he said, "There is no 'me' anymore" although he used his name in place of 'me.' Others seem to view losing your ego as totally losing your mind, like happened to the friend I described in my original post, but I do not generally like this definition, as I do not think that this goal of losing the ego that we always try to attain should have to involve going crazy and running all over causing trouble for yourself.

I tried to let myself go in different parts of the trip, and funnily enough I vaped DMT again yesterday and had this exact experience. I just cleared my mind as I so often do in yoga/meditation just to feel the experience. I guess I was not doing that during my vaporhuasca journey, but I do have a faint memory of at least trying.

I suppose my question for you, besides asking what the ego is exactly, is how one can tell the difference between his or herself knowing and the ego knowing? What does that mean?


I guess a litmus test would be to see how you're feeling. If you know there is absolutely no point or reason to living and all those other things you mentioned in your post that you know but you still feel great (not numb) and you're perfectly fine (not numb) with knowing those things then I'd say it's not your ego(not attached or identified with those beliefs). If you know that same thing and feel devastated it's probably your ego hanging on.



I really like this definition.

My ego-less "self" always becomes very content & calmly happy when I'm on psychedelics & have that deep feeling of total meaninglessness for eternity.

I mainly do psychedelics to practice death. Smile
Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
RAM
#10 Posted : 7/7/2015 5:53:39 AM

Hail the keys!


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spacexplorer wrote:
I guess a litmus test would be to see how you're feeling. If you know there is absolutely no point or reason to living and all those other things you mentioned in your post that you know but you still feel great (not numb) and you're perfectly fine (not numb) with knowing those things then I'd say it's not your ego(not attached or identified with those beliefs). If you know that same thing and feel devastated it's probably your ego hanging on.


Hmm well I would be lying if I said I felt good during the experience as I did not. However I was afraid of dying, losing my mind, etc. which if I was to do this again, I would know to anticipate in this fashion. In the days following the journey I felt really good actually. It is very freeing to realize there are no bounds on my purpose or the reasons I do things. I was able to guiltlessly rejoice in the fact that I choose live for pleasure.

It's still tough sometimes from an existentialist point of view ("why do I even stay alive?"Pleased but I have a pretty easy life honestly. A lot of bad stuff happens but at least my path to success is pretty formulaic and I get to decide what I want to do with most of my time. Most people in history cannot say this about themselves, but again since we always latch on to the next worst problem, it's like once you have all your physical and mental problems solved, then the spiritual/philosophical ones become the main issues. So I guess it's a work in progress but I feel pretty good about things right now.

And thanks Doc Buxin, I am now working on trying to figure out where the ego separates from the rest of my whole. I'm working on a theory of a personal ego versus awareness dichotomy, but again this is another spiritual problem that I need to define before I can confront.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
Synkromystic
#11 Posted : 7/7/2015 8:00:26 AM

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RAM wrote:


Hmm well I would be lying if I said I felt good during the experience as I did not. However I was afraid of dying, losing my mind, etc. which if I was to do this again, I would know to anticipate in this fashion.


I have many re occurring experiences surrounding these same fears. The strength and power of the fears seem to be diminishing greatly because I am learning to react to them less and less. It's so difficult to do though when in the middle of a full blown experience, but oddly enough (or not) that is the only time when the fears come out.

RAM wrote:

And thanks Doc Buxin, I am now working on trying to figure out where the ego separates from the rest of my whole. I'm working on a theory of a personal ego versus awareness dichotomy, but again this is another spiritual problem that I need to define before I can confront.


It seems to me that while we are aware of any thing separate, our ego is still in tact. Only when we have unified with the whole, and there are no boundaries, is the ego dissolved. If this is even possible, it would basically mean that we have become the ALL.
 
fathomlessness
#12 Posted : 7/7/2015 2:58:30 PM

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I read pretty much the whole thing and I feel in direct relationship with how you describe your existential angst.

Anyway, when I read you say

Quote:
So I think what it comes down to, for me at least, is continuing to exist for absurd pleasure. Our reality is a joke and there is nothing meaningful at all that can really be found here, but it does not matter that things do not matter. I think it helps to be honest with ourselves though, as the lies about our purpose here just seem to cause strife, which ultimately takes away from us feeling good.


Your logic tells you, life is absurd therefor seek pleasure... kind of like this picture



But this picture is a joke because it is in irony of what buddhism understands about dealing with meaninglessness. You are so true in saying that lies cause stryfe which creates misery ultimately, but so does pleasure because we constantly seek it which leads us to unhappiness eventually.

The act of meditation is a gateway out of the absurd, out of the lies and constant turmoil that is in a vicious cycle. It allows one to just be and the nagging feeling of "this is completely absurd" turns in to "this is so delightfully absurd, I'm not even really conscious of it". Look yogi, I know you know that I know you know this already but as spacexplorer was saying... the ego can know intellectually but not truelly understand what it is and what it's worth... especially the perspective shift about meaninglessness which I will explain further later.

At the end of the day, the only way to deal with meaninglessness is to find meaning within meaninglessness by embracing it's absurdity and not feeling any animosity towards it lest you turn into a big fat ceasar with grapes & fans every day untill you die (dirty hedonists) Razz

I feel in direct relationship with how you describe your existential angst but it seems you and I (have almost the same post count) both have have incomplete comprehensions about the core concepts that tie down what we understand to what it is in and of itself. For example, barbie dolls are fake... an incomplete comprehension of this statement would lead one to say something like "well barbies are fake, so where is the value in them anyhow?" and the reply is made without consideration to the tacit assumptions we make like the 'value' of fake barbies and how we arrive at a conclusion about the value of a fake barbie.

Quote:
So I think what it comes down to, for me at least, is continuing to exist for absurd pleasure. Our reality is a joke and there is nothing meaningful at all that can really be found here, but it does not matter that things do not matter. I think it helps to be honest with ourselves though, as the lies about our purpose here just seem to cause strife, which ultimately takes away from us feeling good.


You are effectively doing the same thing as the barbie doll even though you what you say is still truthfull... it is still considered to be coming to a premature conclusion about the understandings that have not been penetrated in to the maximum potential of understanding in all of its ins and outs and implications and what have you. I know I do this even though I don't like to say I do or know I do, as most people do so to. So, it's best to avoid absolute conlusions about abstract philosophies because they are too incomplete to know their truths, only in the sense of making a value judgement about our lifes... whether they are actually valid truths about the nature of existence may be plausible to make truth claims but it is a different ball game when it comes down to making value judgements about your own existence with inconclusive interperetations about states of the system or matrix or universe.

Of course, suicide is the ultimate value judgement one can make and has been regarded as "the only philosophical question worth considering". In this respect it would be regarded as an overload of conflicting information that leads to premature value judgement of ones own existence. The thing is, while existing as a human on this earth it is imposible to have anything but premature value judgements about life but it pays to be aware that it is premature and not the whole picture you are looking at... So, if you feel you have to go then you feel you have to go... You feel me RAM?

Oh, and whatever you do about this... DON'T TURN INTO A MINDLESS ZOMBIE Very happy


P.S.

RAM wrote:
A girl into astrology at the studio


Go on....

Pleased
 
fathomlessness
#13 Posted : 7/7/2015 3:30:48 PM

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RAM wrote:
"wow I did that and not a lot of other people have or could handle it,"


OH YOU BIG MAN NOW HUH?1?! Big grin

RAM wrote:
But I'm curious, why do other people choose to use drugs? Isn't it pretty much the same, everyone looking for realizations, experiences, and feelings? A lot of the reasons listed by fellow Nexians for doing DMT involve having insights and gaining a deeper understanding of the world. Maybe my insights take a more intellectual form, but that is how my analysis is inclined because I constantly think about philosophical topics.


For me, to understand whether suicide is worth it or not. (points to above comment about "the only philosophical question worth considering"Pleased

Synkromystic wrote:

It seems to me that while we are aware of any thing separate, our ego is still in tact. Only when we have unified with the whole, and there are no boundaries, is the ego dissolved. If this is even possible, it would basically mean that we have become the ALL.


Perfect HD quality definition of egolessness! Thumbs up
 
fathomlessness
#14 Posted : 7/8/2015 3:53:04 AM

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fathomlessness wrote:

So, it's best to avoid absolute conlusions about abstract philosophies because they are too incomplete to know their truths, only in the sense of making a value judgement about our lifes... whether they are actually valid truths about the nature of existence may be plausible to make truth claims but it is a different ball game when it comes down to making value judgements about your own existence with inconclusive interperetations about states of the system or matrix or universe.

Of course, suicide is the ultimate value judgement one can make and has been regarded as "the only philosophical question worth considering". In this respect it would be regarded as an overload of conflicting information that leads to premature value judgement of ones own existence. The thing is, while existing as a human on this earth it is imposible to have anything but premature value judgements about life but it pays to be aware that it is premature and not the whole picture you are looking at... So, if you feel you have to go then you feel you have to go... You feel me RAM?



Are you kidding me fathomlessness? What a hunk a junk post that is. You are saying that it is ok to make judgements about the nature of reality but not ok to make judgements about what that may mean for the individual... That is like saying 'well we can study the observer effect all we like but we shouldn't make judgements about what that means about our experience of the world because that would be psuedo-whatever and lead us to make bad conclusions like suicide'. We have to make decisions all the time based on incomplete data and it is no different when looking at the furthest comprehensable concepts about existence or the choice to end existence itself.
 
RAM
#15 Posted : 7/8/2015 5:42:23 AM

Hail the keys!


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fathomlessness wrote:
You are so true in saying that lies cause stryfe which creates misery ultimately, but so does pleasure because we constantly seek it which leads us to unhappiness eventually.


fathom, I have read your posts around the Nexus and have found them mildly interesting, but I do have some problems with the authority of your posts. You say a lot of things that are pretty definite, and while I may be guilty of this sometimes myself, you seem to speak with such authority (especially when you post those links to Wikipedia on "what makes a good human" which is subjective). I do not agree that pleasure causes unhappiness.

Like our mutual friend Larry David, I have had both incredibly good and incredibly bad streaks, and I can say that I'd much rather have a good streak than a bad or mediocre one. There is nothing that makes my heart melt more than when I can go to bed with a smile on my face because the day was so great. Am I not allowed to pursue a better, even converging on perfect, life for myself because some Buddhist guy hundreds of years ago said that pleasure fades? No! I am allowed.

I will concede that in many cases pleasure does fade. Since being a little kid I have realized that when I receive an object I desire, the excitement and pleasure fades almost immediately. It's not a mystery that this happens. The Buddhist solution is to eliminate desire to stop the eventual but oftentimes immediate fading of pleasure. But what about just shifting your expectations? Changing the way you feel pleasure? Changing how you perceive things?

Slavoj Zizek wrote:
A desire is never simply the desire for certain thing. It's always also a desire for desire itself. A desire to continue to desire. Perhaps the ultimate horror of a desire is - to be fully filled-in, met - so that I desire no longer. The ultimate melancholic experience is the experience - of a loss of desire itself.


I refuse to undergo this "ultimate melancholic experience" any longer. I am human, I desire. I do not like when we lie to ourselves and try to make ourselves into being something more than human. We can play these games and say these things about consciousness and "oh well I define myself" but look in the mirror at the end of the day and tell me you don't see a monkey looking back at you.

Many times, the media teach us not exactly what to desire, but rather how to desire. I think that it is very common, at least in our society, for smarter people to be on guard against advertisements and television "programming" (because it's programming you, not the TV!), but they are not exactly on guard against a more general showing of how one is supposed to desire. I believe that this is what distorts the systematic desire of most people who even interact with the media. And the yogis and yoginis who think they're cool don't watch TV and say "Hey I'm above those influences and I have eliminated desire from my life" in some kind of desperate attempt at differentiation from the disgusting masses, and while they can entertain themselves with little higher circuit activations and distractions they are still dehumanized as they fight against their basic, human instincts.

fathomlessness wrote:
I feel in direct relationship with how you describe your existential angst but it seems you and I (have almost the same post count) both have have incomplete comprehensions about the core concepts that tie down what we understand to what it is in and of itself. For example, barbie dolls are fake... an incomplete comprehension of this statement would lead one to say something like "well barbies are fake, so where is the value in them anyhow?" and the reply is made without consideration to the tacit assumptions we make like the 'value' of fake barbies and how we arrive at a conclusion about the value of a fake barbie.


You know, I used to use post count as a metric of success and trustworthiness on the Nexus too, and I'll admit that it's a number I still check out. But it's just a stupid number. Time you've been on the Nexus is really the more important metric; there are genius members who may only have 50 posts but have been on for five years. Quality over quantity (tons of people just say "Welcome to the Nexus" or "Awesome!" or "Thumbs up" with most of their posts). Also there are genius psychedelic explorers who have never even heard of the Nexus or maybe have just made one post in the Intro section, so why does post count even matter? I don't want it to imply anything about me.

Barbie dolls are not fake at least by unified subjective standards. They are plastic toys. You can hold them and feel them. Maybe you mean the commodity ideology surrounding barbies is "fake" in that it is not tangible, but it can sure have an effect on people. If barbies make little children smile then great. If liberal moms do not want to set some kind of fake expectations for their daughters let them buy the heavier set dolls. I don't care what they do, it's their choice. But if it makes a child smile then boom there's your value.

I do see what you're getting at though. You see my post as making a premature conclusion. But I recognize, maybe implicitly, that my opinions and consciousness and philosophical interests change with time. I can say confidently that I will be a different person in five years. Maybe I'll be a different person in one day. I can have an idea of who I'll be but no exact answer. But if we see every conclusion as premature then how can we get anywhere? If I die tomorrow then will the ideas I had today be considered "mature" just by nature of my death?

Is one not allowed to make conclusions and stick with them?

fathomlessness wrote:
OH YOU BIG MAN NOW HUH?1?!


Yes. I am more confident that I was able to undertake such a painful journey, and I am somewhat satisfied with the consequences. When I wrote that post I was being completely honest, as I try not to lie or misrepresent. Especially post-trip, I couldn't handle lying to myself and I wanted to record what I was feeling. That's what I was feeling, so I wrote it down. I don't mean to impose my feelings on others but I would be very, very surprised if other Nexians did not have this feeling at least at some point in their travels. "Wow I did that? Awesome!"

And for the suicide thing, I don't judge people who do it. Everyone's life is in their own hands. It's kind of bad when people leave a whole family who depends on them behind, but your life is truly your responsibility whether there are those who depend on you or not. It's not for me as I do not like making permanent decisions as my mind is very liable to change, and I experience so much positive utility from my days that it would not be worth it.

Also before people kill themselves they should try dedicating their life to other people through community service and seeing if their situation improves. Sometimes it takes extreme conviction and motivation to make the large changes that will truly make you happy, and maybe the only thing powerful enough to inspire such change in some people's lives is suicidal intent.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
Al-Wasi
#16 Posted : 8/31/2015 1:12:57 AM

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Great write up.

Haven't been on in awhile but my next dmt trip I planned to do pretty much just this same thing.
That moment when you wonder if this time you went too far....

Obviously everything discussed here is the fictional accounts of someone with an out there imagination. I mean really could any of these tales be real?
 
 
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