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[RESEARCH] Cluster headache/migraine mitigation workspace Options
 
The Traveler
#1 Posted : 6/29/2015 4:21:25 PM

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Once in a while I see threads popping up about cluster headaches and migraines and how to mitigate it's effects with entheogens. This thread is a 'anthology' of the several topics on the DMT-Nexus that are about cluster headaches and migraine mitigation and to discuss the results of that.

I hope that this will initiate more research about cluster headaches/migraines and ways to mitigate them by the use of entheogens. So please feel free to add to this topic!


MITIGATION OF CLUSTER HEADACHE/MIGRAINE BY ENTHEOGENS

These are the threads that discuss the mitigation of cluster headaches and migraines by entheogens use:

* Changa for Cluster headaches

* maoi's and migraine / cluster headache

* trying to nullify a cluster head ache with DMT

* DMT For Cluster Headaches

* Cluster headache suffers

* Cluster Headaches & Endogenous DMT

* Cluster headaches or migraines?

* Unauthorized Research on Cluster Headache - Entheogen Review Winter 2008

* cluster headaches

* HBWR Seeds - Stomach Discomfort - Cluster Migraines

* Cluster Headaches and vascular migraine

* cluster headache-worst pain of all....

* Psilocybin dose-dependently causes delayed, transient headaches in healthy volunteers


INSTIGATION OF CLUSTER HEADACHE/MIGRAINE BY ENTHEOGENS

These are the threads that talk about cluster headaches and migraines that are caused by entheogen use:

* Extreme migraine/cluster headache after new batch

* DMT induced cluster headache


SIDE EFFECTS OF CLUSTER HEADACHE/MIGRAINE WITH ENTHEOGENS

These threads are about side effects of cluster headaches and migraines where entheogens were involved:

* Cluster Headaches and MJ/Sumatriptan


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
xa
#2 Posted : 6/29/2015 4:43:34 PM

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Thank you :-)
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Muskogee Herbman
#3 Posted : 6/29/2015 5:46:40 PM

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Thanks a bunch Trav! Awareness is key, this is direct evidence of how entheogens are medicine, instantly culling intense pain.

In the past 25 years less than $2 million dollars has been spent on Cluster Headache research. Almost all research has been done through places like this and thanks to MAPS. The discovery of how psychedelics was quite magical and accidental much like my own story. It wasn't science that found it. WE found it. And now Science is backing it up what we found years ago.

Research needs to be done on Ayahuasca, Iboga, and Mescaline still. Not to mention others. LSD, Mushrooms, and 2BromoLSD are well researched and effective, but my curiosity is peaked.

I will be trying Ayahuasca and mescaline soon, will report back to the community on their efficacy on prevention.
Creator help me live in a way that will make my ancestors proud.
 
The Traveler
#4 Posted : 6/29/2015 5:54:58 PM

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Thank you Muskogee Herbman!

p.s. Do you think it would be wise to link up with the ClusterBusters forum on this? Pro/Cons?


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Muskogee Herbman
#5 Posted : 6/29/2015 9:27:55 PM

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Couldn't hurt, I have referenced them over here for extracting and such. I cant think of many cons but could think of tons of pros, from the extraction teks, to shroom teks, and potential exposure to new treatments via ayahausca or iboga.
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Metanoia
#6 Posted : 6/29/2015 10:52:05 PM

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Nice work Traveler, thank you!!! Very happy

Psilocybin is such an effective treatment for my cluster headaches that I don't have the chance to get attacks any longer, after many years of suffering. I've been curious about other treatments with the same sort of efficacy, but I'm so terrified of that pain that I just continue to take my regular dosage of mushrooms and I haven't had a serious attack in over three years! Before having a steady supply of mushrooms I used LSA seeds with pretty good efficacy as well. I found Rivea/Turbina corymbosa were the most palatable and effective.

I've had Salvia divinorum abort migraines instantly before. One of my old friends gets migraines on a regular basis and I introduced her to the plain leaf and she says it works every single time for her too. I've seen other reports online of this so it's something I like to mention when the topic of cluster headaches/migraines comes up.

I think that's a great idea to collaborate with the clusterbusters forum! I also don't see too many cons there.

Thank you again for doing this Traveler, it means a lot to those of us who wish to further the knowledge on the treatment of cluster headaches/migraines with the use of entheogens.
 
Nathanial.Dread
#7 Posted : 6/29/2015 11:12:30 PM

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Edit - removed

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Muskogee Herbman
#8 Posted : 6/29/2015 11:15:36 PM

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Under the instigation here's one Trav https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=55741
from the article the thread is quoting
Quote:
Prolonged efficacy in terminating cluster periods and extending remission periods is difficult to explain as a consequence of receptor stimulation or antagonism, which should persist only for the duration of acute pharmacologic effect, or from receptor up- or down-regulation, which generally resolves over two weeks to two months. A number of other possibilities have been suggested, including disruption of the circadian rhythm through 5-HT1A, 5-HT2C, or 5-HT7 modulation, or through 5-HT2A-mediated gene induction (Sewell et al., 2006). It would not be surprising if psilocybin both induced and treated headache by a related mechanism; however, this mechanism is as yet unclear.


I find this interesting in the relationship to slapbacks
Quote:
"Everyone is different, but there often is an immediate sense of relief, followed within a few hours or a day or two, by the return of cluster attacks. These “slap-backs” can be abnormal attacks – shorter or longer than usual, or more painful or less painful than usual, and coming at odd times. There might be a few or several but these attacks then may begin to fade, at least for a while."


Back to the Psilocybin article
Quote:
"The pain from headache is transmitted through a plexus of largely unmyelinated fibers that
surround the large cerebral vessels, pial vessels, large venous sinuses and dura mater to the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal ganglion"


This is the same spot as a cluster headache which is also known as a Trigeminial autonomic cephalalgias.

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The Traveler
#9 Posted : 6/29/2015 11:50:58 PM

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Metanoia wrote:
Psilocybin is such an effective treatment for my cluster headaches that I don't have the chance to get attacks any longer, after many years of suffering. I've been curious about other treatments with the same sort of efficacy, but I'm so terrified of that pain that I just continue to take my regular dosage of mushrooms and I haven't had a serious attack in over three years! Before having a steady supply of mushrooms I used LSA seeds with pretty good efficacy as well. I found Rivea/Turbina corymbosa were the most palatable and effective.

I've had Salvia divinorum abort migraines instantly before. One of my old friends gets migraines on a regular basis and I introduced her to the plain leaf and she says it works every single time for her too. I've seen other reports online of this so it's something I like to mention when the topic of cluster headaches/migraines comes up.

That sounds very promising!

Can you maybe provide the dosages and the regiment of taking for each substance that you took (psilocybin, LSA, Salvia D)? Like in mg and how often you take it on what days etc.

That will be very helpful to get a better idea about working dosages.


Muskogee Herbman wrote:
Under the instigation here's one Trav https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=55741

I have added the article to the first post.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
xa
#10 Posted : 6/30/2015 12:23:22 PM

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Yes can be a good thing write dosage and frequency if the substance works, there's not a standard dosage....anyone have to adapt it and find is way, in the CH i read and speak and there're a lot of solution that can work for one person but not to others...psilocybin lsa and dmt maybe aya ? work better than medical product...strange beast.

I have a question, when we speak about psilocybin, every psilocybin mushroom can do the job ? or only some species ?

My little experiment was to take a 1 gr dosage at the start of the cycle (i'm episodic) os psylocibe semilanceolata that it's high in psylocibin baeocystin and little psylocin...give me a trip that was so sad because i was not able to predict the first attack and i take them after, but the cycle was more fast and not so painful as in the past years. i want to continue and use mushroom periodically to stop the cycle, try if dmt work for attacks and so on.

The first time i read that psilo works was some year ago, my cycle was vary strange and short...it came in october and in october i went to the field and take a good dose just one week before...so this thing can work and i can find them in nature.

So can be good to write dosage species of mushroom or other substance method and frequency of administration, and if used to brake attacks or like a cure done periodically.

What i would like is something that brake and don't let start the cycle when arrive, maybe with 4 or more strong psychedelic session i can get rid of it.

Bye
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Godsmacker
#11 Posted : 7/1/2015 5:10:34 AM

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I'm interested to know which compounds you have successfully used to abort a cluster headache, doseage, average duration of prophylactic effect of each compound (i.e. how long does each medicine keep you cluster free for after treatment on average?), and any psychedelics you've tried which don't abort clusters. Have you noticed that psychedelics (i.e. LSD) induce a longer prophylactic period than triptans? I would also like to pose these inquiries to any others reading this who also suffer from cluster headaches.
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
Muskogee Herbman
#12 Posted : 7/1/2015 6:51:46 AM

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Godsmacker wrote:
I'm interested to know which compounds you have successfully used to abort a cluster headache, doseage, average duration of prophylactic effect of each compound (i.e. how long does each medicine keep you cluster free for after treatment on average?), and any psychedelics you've tried which don't abort clusters. Have you noticed that psychedelics (i.e. LSD) induce a longer prophylactic period than triptans? I would also like to pose these inquiries to any others reading this who also suffer from cluster headaches.


This was posted in the Changa for Cluster Headaches and thought it deserved its own thread so here we go. Sufferers of Cluster Headaches post what has worked and what hasn't doses and etc. I also thought this might be separate from Trav's thread so that this can JUST be focused on treatments and not a collection of threads and articles. Feel free to merge if I misunderstand the function of that thread.

Harmalas – No effect noticed

IbPreufin – as high as 800mg no effects noticed other than slight bodily discomfort

Benzos – No effect on pain, allows for sedation which is the only relief these drugs provide
Vicodin – Used at several different doses, whatever was available at the time when in pain. Only relief was from sedation, after effects of the drug were terrible. Depression, more cluster headaches, and anxiety.

Phenobarbital (Fiorcet?) – Not effective, maybe for sedation, was not achieved at standard prescribed dose

Bella Donna Alkaloids (Dontonl?) – Not effective, maybe for sedation, whichw as not achieved, seemed to make headache worse at prescribed dosage.

RC LSD Analogues (NBxx etc) Had something that was most likely NBOME, took to allieviate a headache, trip came on strong and was stronger than anticipated headache still there. Took what I thought was Xanax and ended up being in a really foggy (pain free) state in the showere where I Was talking to the Shower Head for about 3 hours. Upon return out of the fog, the NBOME kickin hard I took some Xanax and went to sleep.

Cannabis – Tried a regiment of high CBD content THC Candies, headaches were delayed but not aborted, or prevented.

Nitros – Provides a few minutes of relief but no abortive effects

DMT – I tried vaprosing various low to medium doses of DMT and found only temporary relif, the headaches often returned when sober.

MDMA – Standard recreational dose aborted headache but produced different/similar headache when sober.

Ambien – Mildly effective. Reduced pain, allowed for sleep at higher doses. It appeared as if the cluster headaches inhibited Ambiens psychoactive effects completely at low doses. At double dosage drunkenness and pain relief were experienced. Sedation possible, but not overwhelming. No hallucinations ever occurred at any dosage during a cluster headache.

Melatonin – Mildly effective. I have found success in combining this with Passion Flower Extract, and Psilocybin/LSD for aborting a resistant headache.

Eletriptan – I was given several sample doses of this and they were 95% effective in aborting the headaches. The issue came about when I tried to get more. They are $40 a pill.

Magic Mushrooms – I tried a regiment of this for prophylactic and abortive reasons. I found 250mg to be effective for a time in treating, eventually needted to be bumped up to 500mg, and someimtes 1g. I took as high as 1.5g doses and 2g doses but no prevention in headaches achieved. The issue with mushrooms is the mild sedation and body high.

Changa – By far the best abortive method I have discovered. Instant relief, and sobriety within an hour. I have gotten away with doses as low as 35mg but most success has been around 40-45mg using a 1:1;300mg mix using Mullein and Caapi leaf as the base.

LSD – The most effective prophylactic I have ever experienced. I first tried LSD in 2011, after repeated use I noticed that my headaches disappeared just like the story in the beginning. I did some googling of “Psychedelic Headache Treatment” and came across Dr. Andrew Sewells research. I recently tried LSD again to abort a headache after melatonin and passionflower failed, I took ¼ of a 160-200ug LSD tab so roughly 40-50ug. This was enough to produce a wonderful light trip and an interruption in cycle thus success with one dose as a prophylactic.

I think a poll eventually of preferred treatments should be created once we have an average of results to poll from.

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anonenium
#13 Posted : 7/1/2015 10:48:04 AM
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Thank you for making this page.

Im not sure if their is any way i can help but if i can i will, i have been using pharma as headache relieve where other that an elevated prolactin level the doctors cant find a reason for it and have thrown everything in the book at me without luck.

all i do know and care is that it works, either by anti inflammatory or some other mechanism i went from having random crippling episodes 2 or 3 times a month to having it happen once every three or four month if i only take on dose. still keeps happening so its not solving the underlying problem and sure it may not be a cure but what i found is that so long as i keep taking low doses every couple of weeks its basicly gone or if i have something feel like its happening its significantly tapered so i know its coming and can get somewhere safe instead of having it hit me out of the blue.

if anyone finds more information i would love to see it.
 
Metanoia
#14 Posted : 7/1/2015 11:22:43 PM

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The Traveler wrote:
Can you maybe provide the dosages and the regiment of taking for each substance that you took (psilocybin, LSA, Salvia D)? Like in mg and how often you take it on what days etc.

That will be very helpful to get a better idea about working dosages.


Currently for psilocybin (dried Psilocybe cubensis) I dose in the five to seven gram range every two weeks. I had been chronic rather than episodic when I first started using psilocybin as my main treatment so at the beginning I was 'busting' as frequently as was needed to manage the pain. I found taking two grams was enough to manage the pain but not obliterate it like a full-on psilocybin trip would. So luckily I already enjoyed tripping because that's what it takes for me to be completely pain free Very happy Some people do get great results from taking lower doses that won't really cause a trip, however.

I should mention that my tolerance to tryptamines is permanently affected by all the pharmaceuticals the doctors prescribed for CH's and migraines. Five to seven grams is probably comparable to maybe three or four for most people. I tried to find one of my old journals that I had written down some of the medications and dosages but I may have thrown it out because none of those ever worked anyway. I got slight relief from one prescription but it only lasted for a week or two. Apparently I'm the type that is extremely resistant to treatment; the doctors tried everything.
Muskogee Herbman wrote:
Eletriptan – I was given several sample doses of this and they were 95% effective in aborting the headaches. The issue came about when I tried to get more. They are $40 a pill.

This is most likely the medication that did work for me, for a short time. The amount of money I wasted on those prescriptions was appalling.

Previously I had been using Rivea corymbosa seeds on a weekly basis. They were always high doses, 200 seeds or more. HBWR worked, but not as well. As did Morning Glory but I always had too many side effects from those seeds. Sometimes the slapbacks would be pretty bad when I was using LSA; it was far less effective than psilocybin for me. I don't experience any pain at all anymore, which is something people living with CH's don't always find. It's just a schedule of management basically. Waiting for the pain to return. I refused to live like that and found that my body is quite agreeable with the tryptamines Smile

I credit my regular use of Salvia leaf to completely curing me of my migraines. I smoke it at least five nights a week, sometimes more. One bowl of plain leaf, no more than 300mg. I haven't tried quidding for migraine relief but I do quid fairly often as well, whenever I need to cut back or harvest one of my plants. Every occasion I've used plain leaf to abort a migraine it worked instantly. Before I even blew the toke out the pain receded. Once when I used extract to abort a migraine and it worked just as quickly and effectively, but I did get a slapback that woke me up later that night. It was like a mini-migraine, much less intense and much shorter (I was out of bed for maybe an hour) but all the classic signs and symptoms I normally get with a migraine. I also tested to see if I was really "cured", meaning if the migraines would return if I stopped smoking Salvia. I went almost three months without it and although I did miss my meditation sessions, no migraines returned. I'm not even sure the last time I had a migraine. I think it was 2008.

I feel I should say that the dosages I use work for me but many other people may need much smaller doses and/or far less frequency of usage to get the same results. I happen to enjoy psilocybin and salvinorin in a somewhat recreational way so it has simply become an integral part of my life. Perhaps a positive association Wink I doubt you would need to smoke Salvia every night for weeks on end like I have to get rid of your migraines Laughing Same with taking full psychoactive doses of mushrooms or the seeds.

I would really like to add as much to the knowledge base as I can so I'm thinking of trying some other treatments over this summer to see what kind of results I get. If I can find another treatment regimen that can not just manage the pain but prevent it completely, that would be invaluable to me and possibly other CH sufferers. I was thinking of trying LSD as a treatment, one trip every two weeks as I do currently with mushrooms. I've been playing with the idea of trying Changa as a treatment for a while now so I'm also going to give that a shot. Also perhaps some of the 4- substituted tryptamines.

It scares the hell out of me to stop my mushroom dosage schedule but if it means more treatment options and improving quality of life, it's worth it Thumbs up
 
Metanoia
#15 Posted : 9/3/2015 12:34:35 AM

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So now that it's September I wanted to post an update. My summer experiment(s) seem to have been a success Smile

I have not used psilocybe mushrooms as a treatment for my CH since June instead substituting LSD or 1P-LSD in its place at the same dosage interval. No attacks, no migraines, not even a slight headache. It seems its efficacy as a treatment is just as potent as mushrooms, for me at least.

There have been some other pleasant effects from making the switch as well. My creativity is greatly enhanced and (strangely, not necessarily unwelcome) I've been sleeping less hours, staying up later at night and getting up earlier. I was wondering if perhaps it was some lingering stimulation from the LSD but only having one dose every two weeks this seems rather unlikely.

So I will return to the familiar fungus as my mainstay treatment. It is comforting knowledge to have that there are other treatments available with seemingly identical efficacy. But I do miss those lovely tryptamines Thumbs up

During the winter at some point I will be testing changa as a treatment, hopefully with similar results!
 
KlustoR
#16 Posted : 11/29/2015 6:54:51 AM
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Hi friends / fellow sufferers,

I'm suffering for over 8 years with chronic cluster headaches, i tried almost any kind treatment and while some of them do work, i've never got 100% pain free for more then 2 weeks.

I go about the normal busting routine, and use shrooms & LSD on a regular basis but still my beast comes through.

For me DMT does work as an abortive, if i'm quick enough about it, and fire it up straight away when i feel the first awefull signs comming up and know they wont go away with oxygen.
I tend to eyeball my dosages in a machine, a little more wont hurt me as i probably wont finish it anyways...

My pain almost immediatly vanishes, and comes paired with the normal pressure feeling that i get from DMT. That pressure feels awesome, its the best feeling i've ever had ! Sometimes it feels like there is a knot tangled inside my head, and DMT is untangling that knot for me.

The trip itself tends to be dulled by the cluster headache tho, and most of the time doesn't make much sense and visuals mostly blink on and off wich is kinda annoying.

After this, i might need another dosage, depending on the pain comming back or not, or finish it off with oxygen without too much effort.

For me DMT is my new sumatriptan, i'd just wish there was a way to take this everywhere with me.. Embarrased Very happy
 
xa
#17 Posted : 11/29/2015 6:24:06 PM

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KlustoR, about how much dmt did you take for abort an attack and in what form ? it's like a treshold dose ?

I'm eppisodic and i don't tried yet because SHE don't still want to came this winter, maybe my previous experiment with subdoses os lsa and some very little ammount of dmt, almost none visual effect, bring SHE away, i hope so, but it's a very bad beast.
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rOm
#18 Posted : 11/29/2015 8:26:53 PM

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How do you use salvia plain leaves in this context Metonia, smoked in bong or quidded ?
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
Nathanial.Dread
#19 Posted : 11/29/2015 9:54:33 PM

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This was just published - analysis of data collected in an online survey from cluster busters.

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Muskogee Herbman
#20 Posted : 11/30/2015 2:57:39 AM

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Quote:
At both levels of efficacy, psilocybin
was comparable to high-flow oxygen and better than oral
and intranasal triptan, but less effective than injectable
triptan. Of course, as cluster attacks may be as short as
15 minutes, medication mode of administration is highly
relevant


This is where I think Changa beats all, which I don't think any of their respondents reported use of smoked DMT + harmalas.


Thanks Nathaniel, great study! Another piece of proof of the efficacy of medicinal psychedelics.
Creator help me live in a way that will make my ancestors proud.
 
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