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Toking after minimum MAO Inhibition Options
 
obliguhl
#1 Posted : 9/9/2009 5:02:19 PM

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THEY told my friend he needs to find another way to contact them. He's simply NOT capable of smoking huge hits. He coughs it out or has to stop. He thought it would be a matter of technique, but it's more a physical limit. The pain really hurts his experience. They keep telling him, that they want him to feel GOOD...but he doesn't because of the pain.

It's also painful to see 250mg melt away in one 1-2 hour session without even a breakthru, he says. He needs time.

Rue tea is said to be pretty awful in the stomach. Could he clean it up with egg white?
Would be 1g worth of rue tea and a couple of Datura S. seeds be enough to inhibit mao for a while, without having him experience crazy nausea and puking?

Can he take small tokes to build it up somehow? Would it help in facilitating a breakthrough?
They told him that he gets to see what makes sense at the time...but it would be very nice to have a way to spend less spice. 250mg in one session is a crazy amount if he wants to develope a relationship with the spice. He thinks that the experience is beyond money, but he simply can't afford vaping this much in regular intervals...

What could be a solution?
 

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WSaged
#2 Posted : 9/9/2009 6:31:20 PM

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What kind of pipe are you using & how are you vaporizing it?
Sounds more like you might need a different smoking device & to refine you vaporizing technique.

Have you tried all the different vaporizing devices at least once?
Like:
* Regular glass oil pipe (meth-pipe)
* The ash-sandwich (spice in between 2 layers of ash...in a bong or water pipe)
* Bubbler (water pipe) or bong with Brillo in the bowl as a medium for holding & heating the DMT
* Etc...

One of the many vaporizing methods usually works better than all the others for each individual person, so try them all at least once.

For me, using a small bubbler with a piece of (cleaned) Brillo in the bowl works best!!
But not every bubbler (or bong) works equally as good, you have to find one that works really well for this. I attached a picture of the bubbler I used to use before I broke it & a pic of the new one I just got. It took me about 8 months to find a new bubbler that worked as good as that first one.


Anyway, if you are feeling that much pain when smoking DMT, first make sure your extract is clean!! The dirtier (yellower) it is the harsher it's going to be on the throat & lungs.

Don't burn it!!!
Only heat the smoking device (not the crystals!) & just enough to let the spice melt & let then form vapor.
Burning it makes the vapor extremely harsh!! A water pipe helps with this & the water filtering does not reduce the potency at all.


Last thing,
Quote:
Can he take small tokes to build it up somehow? Would it help in facilitating a breakthrough?


NO!
And this may be you biggest issue...

You need to take in as much DMT vapor as you can within, at the most, 2 minutes!!!

Your body builds up a tolerance & also metabolizes to DMT very, very quickly, that is why the experience only last 15-30 minutes or so.
So if you are wanting to breakthrough, you can not casually sit & toke on you DMT pipe & hope to build up to a big effect.
Ideally you would take the entire dose (usually around 50mg is needed) in only one big hit, but that is physically impossible in most people.
So instead, you have to take around 3 or 4 big hits, as big as you can in succession & holding them in as long as you can is important too.
Take the first one & hold it as long as you can, exhale & take the next one right away, hold it, exhale & take the next one right away.
Only pause in between tokes long enough to catch your breath!!

The effects should start to sink in while you still holding in that first hit & they should be getting very strong while you are holding in the second, or third hit. When you feel like you've had too much (usually 3-4 hits), you need to take one more hit, even though it is almost impossible to see where the lighter is in relation to the bowl. That last toke will guarantee you overflow the DMT level in you brain & get the full on experience!!

After that, set the pipe down, lay back & CLOSE YOUR EYES!!!!


If you are not getting good enough hits, try another vaporizing device.
Remember not to burn the DMT!! you want to warm the oil just enough to make it start vaporizing. If you get it too hot it just burn, which destroys a lot of the goods!

When vaporized correctly, DMT vapor is really not all that harsh & the taste is not as bad either.


Cheers & good luck!
WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
obliguhl
#3 Posted : 9/9/2009 6:59:59 PM

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Swim has tried the following devices:

1.Lighhtbulp Vaporizer
The WORST thing ever...it just hurts!

2. the machine
Very good vaporisation, but too hot!!

3. The bubbler machine
Very nice and smooth vapor but the vaporisation is not so good, much of it melts down the chillum, vapor not thick enough.

4. Ash/leaf bed method
Swim can't get this to work. Burnt spice everytime....

5. Enhanced leaf
Everything from burnt spice, to "works ok" to "won't light up"...not swims cup of tee..its also much harsher than the bubbler machine

6. Vaporstar with pau d'arco leaf bed and waterless bong
Vaporizes perfectly..creates very thick vapor. It's a bit harsher than the bubbler machine. Still SWIMS favourite smoking device. He'd like to try it with water but doesn't know how to do it.

The spice is slightly yellow but not much. He knows how HORRIBLE it is to burn the spice...it melts away your throat tissue and is very painful and inactive.
His throat is just super sensitive. Light vapor is easy to handle, but he needs very thick vapor.

He always goes for 3-4 hits. He puts in something like 80-100mg and takes his hits. After the third hit, he gets problems finding the bong with his lighter. OEV become very apparant and he seems to forget what he is doing. Sometimes he would nearly collapse and needs to focus to turn off the light and lie down. Then, a shimmering metallic pattern would appear and he'd fly towards it till it encompasses him. With good hits, it would start to vibrate through his whole body and telepathic alien contact becomes reality. He'd be in this room full of patterns listening to the voices and melting with the pattern...it seems to be some kind of a membrane, reacting to SWIMS thoughts.

SWIM knows, that he has to take big tokes, but with maois, DMT doesn't get metabolized so fast, it actually stays in the body for a while. That's why he speculates that he could build upon tokes to a point where he could barely recognize reality. THEN he would take the BIG hit.

Or maybe he should try to drink ayahuasca because he got the feeling, that he needs some work to do, before exploring the realms beyond the alien skin.

 
Observant
#4 Posted : 9/9/2009 7:41:49 PM

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What about extracting your Rue ?

Quote:

SWIM knows, that he has to take big tokes, but with maois, DMT doesn't get metabolized so fast, it actually stays in the body for a while. That's why he speculates that he could build upon tokes to a point where he could barely recognize reality. THEN he would take the BIG hit.


I think this would work - why shouldnt it ? I am interested in dosage Buildup instead of taking all at once - i think thats very cool with some Substances. They also do it sometimes with Ayahuasca.

Another option if you have access , try to eat a low dose of Psilocybe Mushrooms before smoking the Spice -I think it brings you into a trippy Mindset and i really I think it helps the experience.


You could...

Try Harmala Extract /Smoked with Harmala Freebase
Try it enhanced by 0,5-1g Mushrooms (find your dose)
Try the different Changa Recipes - maybe aquire smt. like this: http://headshop.mybong.d...php?pID=208&imgID=0

Or maybe just smoke the Spice after drinking Ayahuasca :idea:



Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
Infundibulum
#5 Posted : 9/9/2009 9:25:34 PM

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obliguhl wrote:
THEY told my friend he needs to find another way to contact them. He's simply NOT capable of smoking huge hits. He coughs it out or has to stop. He thought it would be a matter of technique, but it's more a physical limit. The pain really hurts his experience. They keep telling him, that they want him to feel GOOD...but he doesn't because of the pain.

It's also painful to see 250mg melt away in one 1-2 hour session without even a breakthru, he says. He needs time.

Rue tea is said to be pretty awful in the stomach. Could he clean it up with egg white?
Would be 1g worth of rue tea and a couple of Datura S. seeds be enough to inhibit mao for a while, without having him experience crazy nausea and puking?

Can he take small tokes to build it up somehow? Would it help in facilitating a breakthrough?
They told him that he gets to see what makes sense at the time...but it would be very nice to have a way to spend less spice. 250mg in one session is a crazy amount if he wants to develope a relationship with the spice. He thinks that the experience is beyond money, but he simply can't afford vaping this much in regular intervals...

What could be a solution?

SWIM once found a big Brugmansia tree and took a good amount of leaves from it and dried them. Smoking dmt using the dried crushed leaves is pure bliss as far as the feeling of the smoke is concerned. Datura leaves were in the past rolled in cigarettes and used for asthmatics. The smoke of datura or brugmansia leaves makes the dmt smoking very smooth.

SWIY should try finding some datura or brugmansia leaves and smoke them through a shisha (nargile) or a water bong for extra comfort. SWIM thinks it doesn't get easier than that!


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
obliguhl
#6 Posted : 9/12/2009 10:48:22 AM

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Well, Swim prefers not to venture deeper into the realms of the nightshade family. But extracting harmalas seems to be the way to go ..looks very easy and fast!

Anyone got practical experience with dosage buildup during minimum mao inhibition?
I think I've read about it....somewhere
 
obliguhl
#7 Posted : 9/12/2009 1:56:57 PM

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I've read through the pharmahuasca thread and encountered some good information about rue. Together with info from various other places, I came up with this plan:

1. A crude Syrian rue extraction with WHOLE seeds. 3 boils with citric acid, combined to one, then filtered with one egg white. The liquid would then be reduced to a powder using the oven on a low setting.

2. 3 datura strammonium seeds and a few slices of ginger would be consumed.

3. 10 minutes later, 2-3g worth of rue seeds would be swallowed in extract form. Maybe with some ginger tea or something

4. Vaporisation of 30mg white spice half an hour later

Well?
 
obliguhl
#8 Posted : 9/13/2009 10:43:38 AM

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Well, the experiment failed at the extraction point. 10g whole seeds were boild...2x 20 minutes roughly. Then, an egg white finning was performed. This proved to be somewhat unnerving, because more and more previous unnoted eggwhite would appear during the filtration stages.

In the end, the yield was 25mg brownish powder. At least 5mg of it should be eggwhite.

Should SWIM vaporize it or start an ultra-low dose harmala experiment?
 
Espiridion
#9 Posted : 11/10/2009 12:21:17 PM

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Obi. You have to make an extract since THH/harm*s are not what? Legal? Availablle?

Rue is SO different from Caapi!! It will work, can be quite visual, but the euphoric component for some is not there and to me that IS the healing. Visuals are great but I go back for the 'embrace', the 'love' I feel from the universe.

Much respect to the vine. Caapi Copy is the second greatest gift to the urban shaman.



Peace and much luck to you,

J
.
.
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Carl Jung

 
endlessness
#10 Posted : 11/10/2009 12:28:29 PM

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sublingual harmala is great! about between 20-30mg harmine or between 10-20mg harmaline, pressing under the tongue and holding it in for 15 mins, and then swallowing, works great just before launching

Or consume 200mg harmalas orally 40 mins before or smt

or take some mushrooms and vaporize during or post-peak... its also amazing

if you cant hold vapour for long enough in your lungs, then you need to be taking slower hits! each hit should be veeeeery slow, and you keep inhaling trying to get a lungful but slowly enough to not challenge too much and make you cough

Try the vaporgenie if the vaporstar is not effective enough

good luck Smile
 
obliguhl
#11 Posted : 11/10/2009 6:22:56 PM

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Thanks endlessness. 10mg of crude syrian rue extract (the salt method + freebase step) has proven to be very successful in prolonging the peak to 8 minutes. Swallowing not necessary! Swim also tried a crude Caapi extract. 25g caapi were run through the Herbal percecolator and reduced to a brownish powder.

20mg of this poweder also worked, but it was much less intense in visual terms and was somehow different but not better.

My friend already tried to take slow hits, but maybe he should work on that. the problem is to produce enough vapor in an already very strange state. He's found out, that his body continues drawing from the bong while beeing pulled away AND heating it ...possibly overheating it thus destroying the spice. This could be the main problem for not achieving breakthrough.

Even with mao inhibition and over 20 tries so far.
 
acolon_5
#12 Posted : 11/10/2009 6:47:13 PM

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^ wow 20 tries and still no-go huh?

You can smoke rue extract and it is very effective at ~50mgs.

Might I suggest using a bong filled with coldish water? Get some white lotus (smoothest of all herbals I have ever smoked) and try the leaf bed method. Smoke some rue extact and right after finishing the rue extract, load up a bit of leaf, 50-60mgs of spice, and a bit more leaf on top. Use a bic lighter and just light the leaf. Smoke until you can't hold anymore, repeat until gone.

Also, if you are using any other psycadelics you probably have built up a cross tolerance to DMT. Give yourself 3-7 days before trying DMT after a long acting psycadelic.


As for tropane alkaloids, I don't think they will help you breakthrough very much. Stick to harmala's and DMT.

I wish you the best. I know how frustrating it can be to try and try and not breakthrough.
The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!


I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
obliguhl
#13 Posted : 11/10/2009 7:16:20 PM

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Thanks acolon_5!
Swim tried the leaf bed method once and it resulted in lots of burnt spice. Enhanced leaf several times with varying success. Brought him to the "waiting room" "Veil" kind of thing for the first time.

It has never been frustrating for him until recently. It feels like Swims come to a point, where sub breakthrus are just not IT anymore. He's felt the shower of love, he had telepathic contact. But it all faded during the last experiences. No it's mostly the waiting room. It always feels like they're trying to show him something:

LOOK AT IT DON'T YOU SEE!!!! HYPNO HYPNO HYPNO


Maybe he should try taking more harmalas. He's also planed tro try kava kava beforehand.
 
acolon_5
#14 Posted : 11/10/2009 7:52:14 PM

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Let me know about the Kava....If I remember correctly kava goes very well with tryptamines, but horrible with phens...
The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!


I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
gammagore
#15 Posted : 11/10/2009 11:30:53 PM

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obliguhl wrote:
Swim has tried the following devices:


5. Enhanced leaf
Everything from burnt spice, to "works ok" to "won't light up"...not swims cup of tee..its also much harsher than the bubbler machine



Has SWIM tried enhanced caapi? or weed? Neither seem to harsh on the lungs.

Ive been pulling off about 12 minutes voyage with the caapi, and with this SWIM can just carry on punishing em bowls till SWIM's where they want to be.
 
tryptographer
#16 Posted : 11/10/2009 11:48:01 PM

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Rue tea works fine for me, but 1 gram is probably not enough. Prolonged boiling is not necessary for ground seeds, I use a tea bag or tea egg with 2 grams of ground Rue - if you are big, use 3 grams. Filter the solid and goo junk! I like the taste of the well-filtered tea and never had any nausea. And yes: it is very effective at prolonging the vaped DMT effects! Keep in mind that it also changes the experience qualitatively, it's smoother and some might say less extreme.

Smoking pre-basified Rue seeds works very well too.
Grind the seeds, mix with equal parts calcium hydroxide and add water until it's a thick paste, let it dry completely, grind the dried paste and smoke in a bong before smoking the DMT. Tastes very nice too Smile


 
Ginkgo
#17 Posted : 11/11/2009 12:00:10 AM

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I am wondering why you guys do not use full MAO inhibition when traveling? I have never tried MAOIs with smoked DMT, but I have some on the way in the mail to try. In that regards, I keep wondering why people often seem to like only partial MAO inhibition. Is it because the harmalines affect the journey too much in the quantities needed for total MAOI effect?
 
 
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