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Hyperspace Lexicon - Entities Options
 
InLaKesh
#1 Posted : 5/18/2015 1:41:00 PM

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Hi !

I just want to discuss with the other nexias if it is a good idea to have NGC_2264's classification of entities in the hyperspace lexicon.

IMHO its not.

Not only but esp. for newcommers it can have a very negative impact on the set of the traveller (one of the most important factors regarding psycedelic journeys...).

Furthermore i think it instills fear into the people, also not the best condition for a good experience. IMO a good entheogenic journey requires a healthy amount of trust in the teacher , the medcine , the experience ... whatever (no blind trust for sure , but trust anyway, not fear !!!)

NGC_2264's version is the same than thinking everything is just love,light and rainbows , just the oposite side of the coin.

What do the other nexians think ?

love
In Lak'ech - I am another yourself
 

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3rdI
#2 Posted : 5/18/2015 2:20:18 PM

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i think everything NGC_2264 said was nonsense and shouldnt be in the lexicon.

however there were several other nexians who seemed to agree with him, so do you think that all those folk can also be ignored?
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
null24
#3 Posted : 5/18/2015 4:00:56 PM

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Searching... No luck. Post direct link?
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
steppa
#4 Posted : 5/18/2015 4:05:26 PM

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Although I find the Hyperspace Lexicon entertaining and like the Idea oft it. I think it's suggestive and alters peoples trips/pushes them in a certain direction.
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
3rdI
#5 Posted : 5/18/2015 4:20:58 PM

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null24 wrote:
Searching... No luck. Post direct link?

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m..._2264.27s_classification

INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
null24
#6 Posted : 5/18/2015 4:57:18 PM

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I didn't read the entirety of it, but probably tend to agree with OP. (some conviction, ehConfused ) , if only because there is am entire pantheon described in detail as if it's an objective reality. Also, at least one is from a lucid dream state, which while being an altered state, isn't "hyperspace".

I'm refraining from any other criticism, because I haven't read the whole thing, but do feel that it could negatively influence a tripper. Even experienced, flashing on something unappealing upon exhale can be detrimental to ones flight path. Traveling light, it's the only way to fly...as they say.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
Chan
#7 Posted : 5/18/2015 5:07:05 PM

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NO.

He appeared out of nowhere, dropped a bunch of perfectly formed chapters on the forum, and then vanished.

While here, he didn't properly engage in any meaningful discussions about his posts either.

My money's on catfish, art-project or religious nut, or some combo of all three Twisted Evil
“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

 
Felnik
#8 Posted : 5/18/2015 6:00:41 PM

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I was surprised to see this guys stuff in the wiki and I don't think it should be there at all. I thought it was an ego fueled one sided diatribe at the time it was posted .
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
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RAM
#9 Posted : 5/18/2015 7:59:11 PM

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While I do have doubts about NGC's descriptions (if it was so bad, why couldn't he just stop?), I found there to be many figures and themes that echo my own experiences.

I think the entities he described are perfect in their forum location at least, and as for the lexicon on the Wiki, maybe we should add a little disclaimer saying something along the lines of "Results not typical."

I find any words used to describe what is subjectively encountered in hyperspace to be important and worthy of inclusion, even it is appears as babble to some.

With this however we run into the problem of deciding the difference between what is made up and what was "actually experienced." NGC's descriptions could easily be made up, or some kind of art project as said earlier, and the only reason we have put so much weight behind them so far is because they must seem legitimate and possible at least to us based on our own encounters.

What I'm trying to say is how can we say some reports are valid while others are not? We may need to establish guidelines for belief or be doomed to evaluating every report on a case-by-case basis, using only logic and empirical evidence to back up our criticisms.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
Cognitive Heart
#10 Posted : 5/18/2015 11:01:38 PM

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Who's to say / classify what entities really are? Nobody. Who is to suggest and brainstorm what these entities might be? Everyone. Smile

I feel the lexicon is good material for informing, suggesting, deconstructing, as well as helpful towards integrating what these experiences might be. It doesn't come close to any graspable notion and nothing ever will. Maybe some folks enjoy having it here because it helps them identify the struggle of breaking down these kinds of experiences. Or to aid in near-pointing somebody's own answer and not to just simply abide by everything it states as fact. We can only share and suggest what is actually happening within our own and unique experiences and the perceivable ideas surrounding them.

We all fall short when it comes to explaining and engaging with altered states of consciousness (especially psychedelics / entheogens) simply because we lack the ability to speak about it when it is actually present. Then of course our memory of the experience is profoundly affected / disturbed.

I see the lexicon as a tool for breaking down an individual experience who is struggling to put the pieces together. Not a factual answer sheet. We are all different, yet one. Some agree and connect with others, some not. And that is the beauty within the variety of each personal experience. Although all folks need to understand what these experiences can bring forth into their own subconscious-conscious lives.

Could you imagine if all these experiences were the same thing? My god how mundane that would be! Laughing
'What's going to happen?' 'Something wonderful.'

Skip the manual, now, where's the master switch?

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InLaKesh
#11 Posted : 5/18/2015 11:12:05 PM

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Thank you all for your answers!

3rdI wrote:
i think everything NGC_2264 said was nonsense and shouldnt be in the lexicon.

however there were several other nexians who seemed to agree with him, so do you think that all those folk can also be ignored?


No , i think his description has its place in the quality experience reports section.
I just think his one sided (for me there definitely is a light side...), lucid dreaming influenced Version (afaik he did not answer questions regarding frequency,quantity and time of DMT intake) has no place in the hyperspace lexicon.

One of my main reasons creating this thread was harm reduction.I thought about a first (or second,third...) timer thinking about the pure evil of hyperspace entities before blastoff...

RAM wrote:
... and as for the lexicon on the Wiki, maybe we should add a little disclaimer saying something along the lines of "Results not typical."



After reflecting about all this, maybe this is a good compromise.( i guess not so mutch beginners read the hyperspace lexicon before their fist blastoff anyway...)


In Lak'ech - I am another yourself
 
InLaKesh
#12 Posted : 5/19/2015 12:39:29 AM

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Felnik wrote:
I was surprised to see this guys stuff in the wiki and I don't think it should be there at all.

But this is still also my personal opinion.
Smile
In Lak'ech - I am another yourself
 
#13 Posted : 5/20/2015 7:26:52 PM
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Cognitive Heart wrote:
Who's to say / classify what entities really are? Nobody. Who is to suggest and brainstorm what these entities might be? Everyone. Smile

I feel the lexicon is good material for informing, suggesting, deconstructing, as well as helpful towards integrating what these experiences might be. It doesn't come close to any graspable notion and nothing ever will. Maybe some folks enjoy having it here because it helps them identify the struggle of breaking down these kinds of experiences. Or to aid in near-pointing somebody's own answer and not to just simply abide by everything it states as fact. We can only share and suggest what is actually happening within our own and unique experiences and the perceivable ideas surrounding them.

We all fall short when it comes to explaining and engaging with altered states of consciousness (especially psychedelics / entheogens) simply because we lack the ability to speak about it when it is actually present. Then of course our memory of the experience is profoundly affected / disturbed.

I see the lexicon as a tool for breaking down an individual experience who is struggling to put the pieces together. Not a factual answer sheet. We are all different, yet one. Some agree and connect with others, some not. And that is the beauty within the variety of each personal experience. Although all folks need to understand what these experiences can bring forth into their own subconscious-conscious lives.

Could you imagine if all these experiences were the same thing? My god how mundane that would be! Laughing


This ... all day.
 
AstraLex
#14 Posted : 5/21/2015 1:30:25 AM

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Hello all,

Maybe it's time for me to step out of the shadows regarding this topic. For it was me who streamlined the original classification method and added both alternative classifications to the wiki as well. So, I assume full responsibility for what happens in the entities section of the Hyperspace Lexicon. Also, I would like to thank the topic starter and others in this thread for thinking about Hyperspace Lexicon and how we could improve it. Now back to topic.

As has been already put forward, NGC is lacking a good credibility in our community. Simply put, a guy with a few posts is not as trustworthy as Terence McKenna with his Self-Transforming Machine Elves, or Hyperspace Fool with his countless posts. It's like a forth grader who designs a theory which challenges the relativity theory of Albert Einstein or Niels Bohr's quantum mechanics. But what is more important: the information or the source?

Like the topic starter pointed out:
InLaKesh wrote:
NGC_2264's version is the same than thinking everything is just love,light and rainbows , just the oposite side of the coin.
And this other side of the coin was completely lacking in our lexicon! Why is the hypotheses: “Entities are good. Sure, they can teach us seemingly harsh lessons, but they are good nonetheless” would be more true than “Entities are evil. Sure, they can teach us seemingly good lessons, but they are evil nonetheless”? I do not think that we can, based on our own experience, prove either of those hypotheses wrong.

Also, where does such a belief come from that one has complete control over the entities as long as the set and setting are right? I have read many topics on the Nexus in the last 5 years and saw that even the most experienced travelers, despite perfect set and setting, sometimes encounter the so called bad trips and evil entities. Most of them, in order to integrate those experiences, have re-appraised them as difficult trips and harsh teachers.

Therefore, I believe that we are witnessing a publication bias here. Because, after a bad trip occurs, a person either leaves the psychedelic scene and never posts anything again or re-appraises the experience to something more happy. So, we see a lot of topics about “love, light, rainbows”, but only a few quality topics about “darkness, deception, evil”. If I remember correctly, NGC is the first person in 5 years time that I am here, who actually systematically reviewed his bad trips.

In my point of view, NGC's report is a shining brilliant in the otherwise underrepresented study of bad trips. His system, although the content seems weird and unorthodox, is nowhere schizophrenic. The system is logical, well-organized and clear - virtues a psychotic person would never achieve. That's why I was so perplexed when I saw it. Finally, a genuine attempt to review bad trips in a systematic manner. Wow!

I do in no way, shape or form state that NGC's system is “The Truth”. No system, topic or experience would qualify for such a term. However, NGC's report gives us a nice counter-balance to all those “positive experience reports and wonderful lessons”. Maybe, the rabbit hole is not leading to absolute light, but to the deepest darkness, which only looks like light? Who knows the answer?

With kind regards.
I took the red pill.
 
#15 Posted : 5/21/2015 1:50:04 PM
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Man From Chan Chan wrote:
NO.

He appeared out of nowhere, dropped a bunch of perfectly formed chapters on the forum, and then vanished.

While here, he didn't properly engage in any meaningful discussions about his posts either.

My money's on catfish, art-project or religious nut, or some combo of all three Twisted Evil

 
 
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