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kambo frog medicine Options
 
doodlekid
#1 Posted : 5/9/2015 4:03:30 PM

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As I've been having this somewhat cheesy frog avatar for a while, receiving an invitation to talk about it and already had some text prepared on it, here goes:

Introduction

Since 2011 I’ve been doing kambo applications. I’ve learned it from someone who in turn learned it from someone else. After a while I got the hang of it and started doing it myself. In time I’ve had opportunities to administer it to others.

I'm not initiated in a traditional way of using kambo. My ties are through the chain of persons who taught each other till it got to me. This way I’ve been free to tailor it to my own needs, but on the other hand also not thoroughly aquainted with it’s traditional uses.

I’ve had good results and noticed it goes well with my constitution. Admittedly there is always a degree of suffering with each application. Kambo is not for crybabies, but it also isn’t as harsh as some people portray it. When well prepared and confident the suffering is a minor price for the results it gives.

What is kambo?

I'll keep this short, so just for the record: Kambo is the general name of the practice of using skin secretions of the Phyllo Medusa Bicolor frog as a medicine. These secretions are collected on a piece of wood, which is commonly called a kambostick.

The way it's used is through a ritual in which burns are made on the skin with a piece of wood, large quantities of water are ingested and the secretions are applied on the burns.

Then follows an categorically unpleasant experience of purging that can include vomiting, diarrhea and sweating. When this passes most often people experience a profound sense of wellbeing that lasts between days, weeks or even months.

It's used for various purposes, the main of which is called curing 'panema' which is a kind of a umbrella term for all kinds of ailments ranging from depression to bad luck. My own experience is that it relieves or releases mental/ emotional debris and does this through body fluids.

Lasting effects

Over time I’ve started to notice how kambo effects last for a while and then start to wear off. There are direct effects that last a day, maybe two or a few. And there are effects that are a little subtler but also last longer, like weeks or maybe a month or so.

It’s the longer term subtler effects which are most interesting. From what I’ve seen, there’s a sort of dismantling of thought/ emotional complexes. So in a sense the way things are experienced become less influenced and burdened by these. It can be that for days or weeks you are able to go through daily life with the least amount of unnecessary thoughts and emotions.

So for example: When I walked through the local forest past few months, this place acted as a sort of mirror for some repeating thought patterns and their emotional responses. I felt very sickened by the place over time and in the end realized it was my own perspective. I could see how much those thought patterns inflicted states of emotional and physical suffering. Just feeling bad and noticing how the body responds and the enviroment reflects.

Then I applied kambo a few weeks ago and directly after that the same place appeared so much more transparent. Instead of seeing grief in each tree, instead I saw the processes that were going on for this time of the year. My own projection was suspended and that suddenly made the place appear a lot brighter.

Gradually I see the old pattern return, step by step. It’s not blasted away for good, yet it is temporary relieved. This is a chance to see some things for what they are, without the burden of stacked up feelings. So that’s what I do and in this way kambo acts as a catalyst for transformation.

So, if there are certain dispositions or causes that usually lead to discomfort or difficulty in life, these are relieved, albeit temporary. For some things kambo can provide lasting healing, but a lot of other things get relieved for a while. When the underlying causes are dealt with, they ofcourse stay away.

When you reach a certain point in developing or dealing with issues, there can be a point in which kambo functions as catalyst for transformation.

General application

First there are the burns. It’s a deliberate mutilation which can be self-inflicted. They leave scars which often completely disappear but not always. As such this act has some depth, cause goes against natural disposition. It requires some qualities of character, like courage and determination.

Then there’s the ingestion of large amounts of water. Which wouldn’t be that alarming, but with the whole prospect of the application it serves as prelude to nauseau and often I’ve noticed myself being on the brink of vomiting long before the kambo is put on the burns. This to can be seen as a sort of test of determination and purpose.

So these two elements already set the stage of a kind of it being a kind of ordeal. Maybe it can be seen as a substitute for the ordeals we go through normally. It this case it is by choice and with intention.

This intention is something profound. So the taking of a medicine as cure for something as broad defined as ‘panema’ goes accompanied with a very specific and personal intention. I don’t know if this is something native to the tribes who originally used it, but I suppose so.

Like there is always something you want to get rid of when doing kambo. But also you can choose in which light you want to heal from this. Same goes with Ayahuasca, Iboga, San Pedro as well. In fact when getting accustomed to the practice of intention it fills up a big gap in the mechanical purpose of applying any kind medicine or psychoactive.

Purging

When applying there is a difference between purging and not purging. Purging usually means vomiting but can also include diarrhea and sweating. The difference is by degree of dosage which comes down to many dots and what size have been burnt.
So usually people will notice the effects from 1 dot onward, but only start purging at 4 or 5. When increased this will include sweating and maybe diarrhea.

I’ve experimented a bit on the amopunts but quickly realized that purging is to be preferred. People told me they did like 1 or 2 dots and just had the kambo feeling. And I tried that for myself. Yet I found that kambo triggers release of substance and this substance usually needs to exit the body, hence a purge. If not you can get stuck with concentrated substance on a specific location which can lead to trouble.

Anyway purging is automatically triggered with enough kambo and water taken. But also it’s a thing you learn as you go. After a while the body remembers and vomiting will start quickly after the effects are on. This makes things a lot easier.

For me, the worst part of it is always just before the onset of the purge. It's that moment when you realize you're never going to do this again, and that you're going to drop all those bad habits and even thinking about stuff is too much. Then the vomiting starts and the worst is over.

To keep the purge going it is helpful to keep drinking water in between vomits. When noticing that there is no water left in the stomach, purging can become quite discomforting and drinking water is less painful than keep on purging with nothing to purge. So even if you don’t want to, it’s a good thing to keep drinking.

What comes out differs from person to person and each session. But in general there are degrees, from clear water, milky white, light greenish slime, bright green gall, darkgreen gall but can also go to lightyellow slime, dark orange gall and reportedly black gall but haven’t seen that myself.

So there’s a kind of transition and you can notice this to get some idea of what’s going on. But I have to say that I am not an expert on this, just that I’ve taken care to notice what happens each time and just take this as a memory so I may be able to determine further on future occasions.

Other methods of applying

There are also reports of other applications than the now described 'traditional' oriented method. I read some of people insufflating it and maybe someone who took it sublingually. Anyway I didn’t bother to try those myself, and am of the opinion that the best way is the orthodox practice of burns on the skin. If the prospect of scars and burns is something you don’t want, then it’s not yet time for kambo.

Conclusion

While it may not appeal to the majority of people, there are some for who kambo is a blessing. I am of the persons who've had some experience in life that leave deep seated issues which tend to lead to accumulation of this so called mental/ emotional debris.
Most psychedelics touch on this too, but often there are long periods in each trip of severe discomfort. With kambo this discomfort is intense, but short lived.

 

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Chan
#2 Posted : 5/9/2015 6:19:34 PM

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Hey DK

Good write up, always nice to see the frog pop up in here Love

You were lucky to find someone to show you, I wasn't, but it was easy enough to get the hang of...

I'd like to stress how minor the burns are, because it's eg. bamboo, the heat-capacity is tiny! Obviously, if you were to use a red hot STEEL rod, you would get serious 2/3rd degree burns, but the bamboo is like localized sunburn, nothing more, and people shouldn't be afraid of that aspect.

Plenty of water is important, but some who have participated with the Matsés themselves, say they don't drink water prior, but rather a kind of chicha, the weak, saliva-fermented maize beer...I'm wondering if an experiment is in order, with some weak lager beer perhaps?! Might diminish the pre-purge jitters a bit...

Likewise, I read somewhere the Matsés have a taboo on insufflation, as it is believed a sickness/virus? can sometimes pass down that route. At the end of the day, applying powerful toxins to the skin is pretty smart, because if there are any issues at all, you can just rip it off and end it, an option not available with most other methods of ingestion.

What I still find odd with the purging, is there is no prior warning or build-up to it, so the first time, I thought I was stuck in the 'burning up' phase, with no sign of release. But right on the 10 minute mark, it came, and I started feeling dramatically better, quickly.

In short, I found it to be like 24V across my immune system, it was great. Never felt so revitalised.

Baak!



“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

 
#3 Posted : 5/9/2015 10:24:41 PM
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I've only worked with Sapo a few times, so my experience is kind of limited in that factor, but the two experiences I have had were very intense, tight skin feel around the face/red, sweating profusely, strong nausea on the onset, mouth purge.

I had done two dots both times, a month between each of those doses. The initial burn that's done, I slightly feel the medicine, but once the second is applied that's when it really kicks in to high gear. With the bamboo skewers, I would sand the one end, pressing extra hard while sanding in order to produce a slightly bigger surface area on the bottom of the skewer; this allowing for 2 pretty good sized dots. On applying the dots, I do quick '1 second' burns on the arm, usually side of the tricep. It's a very on n' off press, just allowing enough time for the hotness of the bamboo to just knock off that top layer of skin (epidermis). I then gently scratch that top white layer off.

I would shave off about a match head sized pile from the stick for each of the dots. I would put the little pile in a tiny weighing dish (the type that come with the gemini scales), add 2-3 drops of water, and adding each drop you notice the kambo absorbing the water, congealing into a globule, identical to a booger. I would apply it with a butter knife, pressing it down firmly onto the burn, constantly reworking the globule with water in order for it to not dry out. Eventually I would flip it over, wet and press once again, working it over the burn to ensure maximum absorption. I found a mini squirt bottle is nice to have handy, so you can just spray and wet the arm as necessary.

Outside is the way to go if your going to do a kambo ceremony. Cool




I won't go into the details of the experience/afterglow/etc, but here's a report from my first experience, which id received from a close friend. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=58728
 
doodlekid
#4 Posted : 5/12/2015 1:22:50 PM

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Man From Chan Chan wrote:

I'd like to stress how minor the burns are, because it's eg. bamboo, the heat-capacity is tiny! Obviously, if you were to use a red hot STEEL rod, you would get serious 2/3rd degree burns, but the bamboo is like localized sunburn, nothing more, and people shouldn't be afraid of that aspect.


Yes that's true. Also there's a degree on the spots were they heal faster than on other spots. So for me upper arms & upper legs do much faster heal than other places on the skin. Also there's a miracle plant named Aloe Vera, which is sort of indispensable aid.

Man From Chan Chan wrote:

Plenty of water is important, but some who have participated with the Matsés themselves, say they don't drink water prior, but rather a kind of chicha, the weak, saliva-fermented maize beer...I'm wondering if an experiment is in order, with some weak lager beer perhaps?! Might diminish the pre-purge jitters a bit...


I read somewhere that Peter Gorman confessed he once did kambo when being drunk. That it wasn't the best thing to do.

Man From Chan Chan wrote:

Likewise, I read somewhere the Matsés have a taboo on insufflation, as it is believed a sickness/virus? can sometimes pass down that route. At the end of the day, applying powerful toxins to the skin is pretty smart, because if there are any issues at all, you can just rip it off and end it, an option not available with most other methods of ingestion.


Yes it is safe this way. So I had to learn not to rip them off to early, cause it can dramatically stop the process. Yet it is a failsafe way and I am very amazed by the ingenuity that's made up such a method.

Man From Chan Chan wrote:

What I still find odd with the purging, is there is no prior warning or build-up to it, so the first time, I thought I was stuck in the 'burning up' phase, with no sign of release. But right on the 10 minute mark, it came, and I started feeling dramatically better, quickly.


First few times I had that too, there was no sign of any purging coming and I tried stick finger in my throat just to get it going. There seems to be a learning process that purging promotes well being, so purging becomes easier when you're more experienced.

Tattvamasi wrote:

I would shave off about a match head sized pile from the stick for each of the dots. I would put the little pile in a tiny weighing dish (the type that come with the gemini scales), add 2-3 drops of water, and adding each drop you notice the kambo absorbing the water, congealing into a globule, identical to a booger. I would apply it with a butter knife, pressing it down firmly onto the burn, constantly reworking the globule with water in order for it to not dry out. Eventually I would flip it over, wet and press once again, working it over the burn to ensure maximum absorption. I found a mini squirt bottle is nice to have handy, so you can just spray and wet the arm as necessary.


That's very thorough. It's really worth to try it this way. On the other hand I'm not in the mood to be working my dots while I'm puking like crazy.

How often do you guys think it's okay to proceed? And, is there a tolerance level that builds up?

If I would try to answer them myself, it's best to wait at least 4 weeks to a month if not 6 six weeks, at least... Foremost cause it's working the body and causes a intense stressful situation which draws on reserves.
So if you're in robust health it can be no problem, but if you're already in a state of diminished health it can be that kambo restores vitality for a short while only masking this.

What I've noticed of tolerance is that after 4 weeks I need more dots than the previous time. But after 8 weeks this doesn't seem to be the case.

Ah there's one more thing I want to post. That was dosing too much kambo. I had this two times now were I almost passed out while violently ejecting large quantities of water. So imagine this moment where you forcefully blast it out and in the process notice you're about to pass out, going knock out. Found this to be a bit alarming, so I try not to push the boundaries too much.
 
Chan
#5 Posted : 5/12/2015 11:08:04 PM

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Quote:
How often do you guys think it's okay to proceed? And, is there a tolerance level that builds up?


I think only you know that. I went through a phase of once per month, and then rested a while. It's a scarce resource, I'm not catching wild boar in a pit, and I'm in good health Laughing I'm sure you know already about the moon-phase approach too...

For healing the dots, Dragon's Blood (Croton lechleri) is the bomb, natural liquid latex, that dries to a really neat, effective henna-looking dot. Amazing.

Taking a mild, cool yerba-mate enema just prior also eliminated the risk of simultaneous evacuation, which is one less thing to worry about...Twisted Evil

(The passers-by just passed, I think, sorry!)

You know www.kambo.me already? That's where I learned everything, and it was all good. Namaste.
“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

 
cosmictaylor
#6 Posted : 5/12/2015 11:31:45 PM

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Kambo was really a life changer for me. Touched me in a way that none of the other medicines have. Powerfully clears your body/energy field of anything not in harmony with Life. Incredible strength and presence. Love. The frog is pure love and wants to help us. Purification.

I've done the 3 session vaccine in a moon cycle twice and those were some transformative times. Also a few other self applied sessions that were empowering but not as "cleansing" as the others.

I really resonate with this frog and am thankful more people are willing to heal and be clean.
 
doodlekid
#7 Posted : 5/15/2015 3:56:00 PM

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This should be part of a informative talk on kambo...
 
3rdI
#8 Posted : 5/15/2015 4:04:49 PM

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that frog looks really happy, kikker's gonna be pissed
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
Dante
#9 Posted : 5/15/2015 6:13:52 PM

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In regards of the diet, what is best?

I always did 2 or 3 days of diet (same as the ayahuasca one) and then 12 hours fast prior the ceremony.
Listen to a man of experience: thou wilt learn more in the woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach thee more than thou canst acquire from the mouth of a master. St. Bernard
 
jamie
#10 Posted : 5/16/2015 2:43:19 PM

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Im taking it sometime this year, to see if it can help my spondylitis and colitis. Id like to find someone experienced with it, but not sure that will happen. I might be working with bufo alvarius venom in july as well on an island nearby with a facilitator..so sapo would be nice to follow up that work.
Long live the unwoke.
 
MaNoMaNoM
#11 Posted : 5/16/2015 7:12:02 PM

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Ok just make jokes and look away, while your sacred frog is crying...
NO that frog doesn't look happy, it appears that it's being tortured.

This is the big problem with kambo, and some folks just don't care,
but kambo sticks ordered online do not come from good shamans!

Obviously they are only from people who wish to exploit the frogs,
and make money. Anyone with respect wouldn't sell kambo online.

if you believe in magic and ritual, and how a medicine is prepared,
perhaps frogs do not have tobe strung up and pocked and picked.
what if the experience could be so much better for us and the frog,
by trying new method of preparation there can be improved results.
Maybe there is a better way to do this without supporting poachers!
*ALL WAYS WITH LOVE
 
doodlekid
#12 Posted : 5/17/2015 1:22:38 PM

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Dante wrote:
In regards of the diet, what is best?

I always did 2 or 3 days of diet (same as the ayahuasca one) and then 12 hours fast prior the ceremony.


Empty stomach is best ofcourse. There are no common diet restrictions. But it may be helpful to avoid dairy products at least one day prior.

And that video is a bit disturbing. Don't know what stance to take on this...

Edit: I've been thinking on this and have come up with something. Because, like I knew how the kambo was obtained, it wasn't as intense as I expected when seeing this video. It's plain cruel in some respects to be stringing up an animal, poking it on nasty places just to get the elixer. At the same time it is the way it's been done for a long time. Difference that now there is a international demand on the sticks and it's a source of income for those people.

So, what to make of it? First of all there some kind of irony to it: You get what you give, or in other words you reap what you sowed. So this basically means that you put the frog in a lot of stress to get the desired secretion, which in turn gives you the same difficult experience in return. So it's not a kind of pleasure derived from the suffering of the animal.

The frogs have no natural enemies that'll devour them. It's their unique chemistry that evolved this perfect method of insuring this. Yet it prompted an unlikely predator to hunt them, which is ironic cause it's the evolution that perfected this defense that in this way works against them.

So to cut it short, those people in the video know what they do and I suppose they're aware of what they show in the video. On the the one hand this is the way it's being done on the other hand there has been an increase in demand over the past few years.

The concern for the frogs is that they're being milked and have trouble afterward by being exhausted. Since it can be assumed with some certainty that this secretion takes a lot of energy in production. It's the foremost defense of the animal and being depleted of it put's it at risk.

If there's anything that can be done, right here in this topic about it, it's to give a method that aims at using as less kambo as possible for the desired results.

Like Tattvamasi in this post: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...&m=634748#post634748

I'm not sure what's the best method, but I am sure we can come up with something and promote this so the kambo that's around is being used as efficiently as possible with nothing wasted...
 
3rdI
#13 Posted : 5/19/2015 9:37:02 AM

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well if you actually care about the frogs you could, maybe, i dont know, stop buying drugs obtained from frogs.

i guess there may be a way to obtain these substances without hurting/abusing frogs, but if you dont know exactly where your drugs are coming from then i think its better to assume that there are frogs being abused and not use the substance. If people believe there is some kind of spirit in these substances, or that the frogs are an ally, then surely this is massively counter productive to the point of uselesness.

you can justify it to yourself anyway you like, but if your obtaining "frog medicine" in this manner you may as well be kicking the frog about yourself.

INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
doodlekid
#14 Posted : 5/19/2015 1:26:07 PM

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Yeah I was thinking the same, just drop it altogether. Maybe I will and maybe not, it's a feeling that it's either good for you or not, but still have some left on my stick and am not in a hurry to use it. These things can be kept for years if not longer and still have their potency. I got a stick from 2010 from a friend who quit, he had quite overdone it, and I found it to be as potent as the more recent I had.

I just am curious on how long this situation will continue. Maybe the sticks will disappear altogether from trade and are only obtainable through inside connections, or you have to go to get them yourself.
 
#15 Posted : 5/19/2015 2:14:56 PM
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Kambo harvesting, ethically correct?

That's an older thread regarding the issue with Kambo. My good friend went to SA last year and stayed in Bolivia for most of his trip, also talking and working with the Mayorunas for a brief while. I was pretty fortunate when he came back later that month and offered the chance for me to have a few ceremonies.

 
3rdI
#16 Posted : 5/19/2015 2:57:20 PM

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cheers for the link Tatt.

i think the personal ethics of these things are very interesting and something i think about alot.
for instance i wouldnt buy any more MHRB after seeing the devestation of some of the plantations, especially as you can grow your own plants, and i wouldnt engage in any of the frog/toad buisness as i think its cruel to the animals. i do however own a mobile phone which is produced by humans being abused, but this doesnt stop me from owning one, or bother me as much when it probably should.

if you tell me a racist joke, even if i know you're not racist, i will look at you like a an idiot, but tell me a jimmy saville joke and i will laugh my socks off, however i find child abuse more repulsive than racism.

life is odd.

(sorry to derail the thread)
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
#17 Posted : 5/19/2015 3:57:45 PM
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3rdI wrote:
cheers for the link Tatt.

i think the personal ethics of these things are very interesting and something i think about alot.
for instance i wouldnt buy any more MHRB after seeing the devestation of some of the plantations, especially as you can grow your own plants, and i wouldnt engage in any of the frog/toad buisness as i think its cruel to the animals. i do however own a mobile phone which is produced by humans being abused, but this doesnt stop me from owning one, or bother me as much when it probably should.

if you tell me a racist joke, even if i know you're not racist, i will look at you like a an idiot, but tell me a jimmy saville joke and i will laugh my socks off, however i find child abuse more repulsive than racism.

life is odd.

(sorry to derail the thread)


Yeah, tbh, it's a tough thing to pin down man. You gave a shining example, that alot of times, we tend to be our own hypocrite; I tend to do this alot; ahhh the human condition Razz

That's why these sort of things im pretty much on the fence about (whether or not it's ethically correct). I've gave examples in the past regarding hunting and people that are against it and speak out towards people that hunt (im talking hunting for food), YET they own leather-based items, products made from animals and don't blink an eye about it, or go to the big chain grocer for their pre-packed factory farmed meat. It's funny to me how we do that and most of the time we don't even catch it.

Not to derail, just thought id give that example. All in all, as with anything, I think there's an equilibrium, and if you err on the side of excess, then things can get thrown out of wack. Sustainability is ideal, but with some things, that sometimes turns out to not be the case.

And I know this is a somewhat cliche statement (and I know many probably wouldn't agree), but imo it seems to come down to relativity. For instance - we might view the tying up of a frog with it's limbs strung out as horrendous, but this stance is formed through all our experiences relative to us growing up; yet the Matses and the various people that have lived in SA their entire lives, growing up with a totally different set of ideals and views on these things don't think about it for a second nor view it as horrendous. So who's more ethical, who has a better say on 'what is or what isn't? This scenario could be applied to soo soo many things. So it's tough; I mean, where is the line drawn? That's why i mentioned equilibrium. (BTW 3rdi, this wasn't directed at you brother! <3)




 
3rdI
#18 Posted : 5/19/2015 4:28:04 PM

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cultural conditionings a killer
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
#19 Posted : 5/19/2015 4:30:40 PM
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International Association of Kambo Practitioners

The above link is also something I found awhile back and is fairly interesting. They're a non-profit organisation working to ensure ethical, responsible and fair trade practice between tribal Kambo collectors, practitioners and clients.

<3
 
Chan
#20 Posted : 5/19/2015 4:39:39 PM

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Last visit: 26-Aug-2023
Gorman's book contains several accounts of animal cruelty which are eye-watering to us, but not worthy of remark for them: in one, a mother and baby monkey are caught. The injured mother is strung up straight away on the fire, and roasted alive, while the baby, is put on the breast of a woman who happened to be lactating, and nursed.

They are entitled to their world-view, as we are ours, but we shouldn't assume that we can map seamlessly from one to the other. They don't.
“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

 
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