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Can Salvia be orally Active ?? Options
 
Observant
#1 Posted : 8/28/2009 7:38:13 PM

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I have read many Times that its impossible to take Salvia Divinorum orally. (including Daniel Sieberts page)

Now recently I met a guy who said he had a really intense experience from eating Salvia Leaves.
This guy sure is no Liar, but i dont know if i can believe this :/

What if taken with MAOI ?

Wut?
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

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pinche
#2 Posted : 8/28/2009 7:45:31 PM

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Its not active in the gut.But the Mazatecs chew and swallow the fresh leaf.Sometimes they make an infusion and drink it.Salvinorin is absorbed best in the back of the throat as when you gargle.So if you eat or drink alot of it salvinorin will be absorbed pharyngealy.Or your freind is weired and can absorb it in his gut but probably not.
 
jamie
#3 Posted : 8/28/2009 8:50:03 PM

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There have been reports over at the entheogen forums of savlia being active as a tea..but you need TONS of leaves apparently, and it's mild.. so it's not worthwhile unless you have a forest of the stuff..

I do believe that the mazatecs use a tea as well as quids..but that could be for purely medicinal effects(well it's alwasy used as medicine with the mazatecs, but you know what I mean)..so who knows?

There is a sickness in mexico where she is used call panzon de borozo or something like that..mean swollen lamb belly I think, and salvia is the cure for it..so that could be why they drink it.

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reflexion
#4 Posted : 8/28/2009 11:07:52 PM

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pinche wrote:
the Mazatecs chew and swallow the fresh leaf.Sometimes they make an infusion and drink it.Salvinorin is absorbed best in the back of the throat as when you gargle.So if you eat or drink alot of it salvinorin will be absorbed pharyngealy.


true. it could also be absorbed in the esophagus aswell...
 
soulfood
#5 Posted : 8/29/2009 1:51:50 AM

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Observant wrote:
I have read many Times that its impossible to take Salvia Divinorum orally. (including Daniel Sieberts page)

Now recently I met a guy who said he had a really intense experience from eating Salvia Leaves.
This guy sure is no Liar, but i dont know if i can believe this :/

What if taken with MAOI ?

Wut?


I've only heard of quidding salvia leaves before.

I don't think an MAOI would make much of a difference because Salvia acts very differently to most chemicals that can be enhanced with MAOI's.

I'm not 100% on any of this though.
 
Infundibulum
#6 Posted : 8/29/2009 11:18:28 AM

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Yeah, salvia is somewhat active orally but massive doses are needed. SWIM could not feel anything with 20mg oral (pure) salvinorin in a one-time experiment.

The synthetic analogue N-methylacetamide Salvinorin B is however orally active in rodents. (see more on this thread). The enzymes that deactivate salvinorin A in the gut and blood are called carboxylesterases. SWIM had found some plants that actually contain carboxylesterase inhibitors in the scientific literature (see attached files), these could be possibly used to make salvinorin A orally active.


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Observant
#7 Posted : 8/29/2009 4:32:34 PM

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Very nice Information Infundibulum !
Thanks for posting Smile
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
Observant
#8 Posted : 9/25/2009 8:44:34 AM

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We reportedly can achieve effects via quidding ,slowly drunk CWE , snorting Extract , rectally , and via Injection .

Successful reports with Swallowed Leaves, teas/tinctures , or cooked leaves are Infrequent

Most people say its the Stomache that inactivates all the swallowed Salvinorines ... what do you think ? Is it the stomaches enzymes ?
Why are such high doses required ... ?


Do you think its risky to inhibit Carboxylesterases ?
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
PerPLexED
#9 Posted : 9/25/2009 9:00:36 AM
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I have heard of 3 forms of taking salvia: tea, quidding, smoking. Ofcourse, people will always find a way to shove it up their ass, ill stick to these. Most common western method is smoking extracts. High temperature is needed to release the salvinorin A, and it is required to hold it in for a long time for absorption. Quidding is the most common tribal(?) way..you take the leaves(depending on dosage desired) and wrap them up together. Sometimes mouthwashing is done right before as the menthol / alcohol(could be both, could only be one of those) allows for better absorption. And you chew on the leaves and then hold it against your gum/under tongue, and then chew, and then hold it. After about 15? minutes, you swallow the leaves(or spit them out) and put in the second quid...and repeat until desired effects are reached. Third, is making a tea. Tastes kinda like a salvia/green teaish flavor...mix it with some sugar and maybe some jasmine for flavor and this gives very desirable meditative levels, also dreams seem to be interesting that night ^^. Your friend was probably quidding, i thought it was a lie too because there were 40x 80x extracts in the market, but honestly, ive heard that there is nothing like chewing it...so i plan on getting my own plant soon..
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Observant
#10 Posted : 9/25/2009 10:26:45 AM

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I am aware of those three forms you described - It's not really what I was asking for Pleased

This here looks well done : http://www.salvia-commun...ew=findpost&p=27177
I dont know about the dose - it is higher as when smoking , but it lasts longer and is without any unpleasant /harsh taste sensations.

_____

Anyways , if you gelcap and swallow salvia , why is such a big dosage required ?
Is it the Enzymes Salvinorin A nearly cannot get past , or does the Salvinorin simply absorb badly through the gastrointensal membranes ?
If it's the Enzymes , are they mostly in the Stomache ? Infundibulum ?

Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
'Coatl
#11 Posted : 9/26/2009 12:52:30 AM

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A Salvia divinorum enema may actually best the best method of administration for this psychoactive plant.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

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Observant
#12 Posted : 12/31/2009 3:21:04 AM

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Quote:

To test for the hallucinogenic activity of S. divinorum in human beings, we drank the infusion of the leaves and waited for the effects to occur. Within 30 min we began to see visions, which lasted for several hours. This allowed rapid confirmation of the mint's psychotropic activity. But more interesting from a therapeutic standpoint are the other properties attributed to the plant; properties that are much more difficult to assess. Are these concepts that are translatable into our western (orthodox) healing theory, or is ska María Pastora being used as a magical treatment (for a placebo effect)? Extended observations in the field by an acute observer would undoubtedly be more fruitful than immediate attempts to isolate compounds responsible for these purported activities.

http://www.sagewisdom.org/valdes87.html

So these guys claim having been affected for at least two hours from simply drinking a tea , just like the guy I met .
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
69ron
#13 Posted : 12/31/2009 9:10:57 AM

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Apparently only freshly picked leaves work well for making tea. I believe the main active compound in this case is NOT salvinorin A but something else that is oxidizing really fast.

SWIM has made tea from the fresh leaves, used within 5 minutes from picking them and it worked VERY WELL. The same tea a few days later did NOTHING AT ALL.

I think more testing needs to be done here.

When quidding the leaves, SWIM noticed the same thing. Fresh leaves are many times stronger than leaves that are a few hours old. At least that's how it was with SWIM’s plant. His friends also had the same experience with his plant. Freshly picked leaves worked great as tea or quids, but hours old leaves did not. The longer they sat, the less potent they became, and eventually they had inferior effects nearly identical to smoking the leaves, which is the effects of salvinorin A.

I strongly believe another compound is present and it is currently unknown because it’s so unstable, that within hours after picking the leaves, the compound is pretty much gone.
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Hybridoma
#14 Posted : 12/31/2009 1:32:43 PM

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There appears to be good anecdotal evidence that there is a chemical change which happens quickly once the leaves are picked. This would be a great research project for the right person, and shouldn't be too difficult with good equipment. It is water soluble, and the extraction profile on LC-mass spec would look different as the picked leaves age over a few hours. The change in the LC/MS profile would point to the compound(s) that are undergoing the decomposition or oxidation, but I suspect an enzymatic degradation in the plant itself. Anyone ready to give this a shot? I bet it would be worth a PhD in a med chem or pharmacognosy dept. The challenge is always the animal model-bioassay system. The Shulgin method of bioassay doesn't fly with NIH.
 
'Coatl
#15 Posted : 12/31/2009 9:22:27 PM

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Quote:
Can Salvia be orally Active ??


In short... YES.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Observant
#16 Posted : 1/1/2010 6:17:03 PM

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Quote:
Siebert also performed tests using other methods of administering pure salvinorin A. This included placing salvinorin A in the mouth, and dissolving salvinorin A in a solvent and spraying into the nose. The effectiveness of these methods varied widely with repeated applications of the same method. In some cases a large percentage of the material taken seemed to make its way into the bloodstream, at other times only minimal effects were produced. This presented a significant risk. If the dose was increased to the point where one would normally achieve "full" effects, (equivalent to smoking 1 mg.) there was a risk of absorbing a larger percentage of the material which could produce an experience of shocking intensity. This possibility led Siebert to suspend his research in this area.

There are currently a number of people in the psychedelic community experimenting with different methods of ingesting Salvia divinorum, including the oral administration of a crude extract. It is likely that a reliable method will soon be developed which allows one to experience fuller effects than can be easily obtained through chewing the whole leaves, but without the intensity and sudden onset of smoked salvinorin A.

http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/dose.html
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
PsilocybeChild
#17 Posted : 3/15/2017 10:14:49 PM

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but.

Quote:
Salvinorin A degradation was markedly inhibited by the addition of sodium fluoride, an esterase
inhibitor. Moreover, phenylmethylsulfonyl fluoride (serine esterase inhibitor) and bis-p-nitrophenyl
phosphate (carboxylesterase inhibitor) also inhibited salvinorin A degradation. In contrast, little or no
suppression of the degradation was seen with 5,5´-dithiobis-2-nitrobenzoic acid (arylesterase inhibitor),
ethopropazine (butyrylcholinesterase inhibitor), and BW284c51 (acetylcholineseterase inhibitor).
These findings indicated that carboxylesterase was mainly involved in the salvinorin A hydrolysis in rat
plasma


So serine esterase and carboxylesterate enzymes both break down Salvinroin-A.
So inhibitting them should make Salvia work orally.

Or maybe only one enzyme inhibitor needed?
Quote:
Carboxylesterase 1 is a serine esterase and member of a large multigene carboxylesterase family.


Quote:
"Low concentrations of serine esterase inhibitors strongly inhibited carboxylesterase "


Quote:
The complex inhibition patterns observed with serine esterase inhibitors indicate that carboxylesterases and ACHs may interfere with ACAT activity by competing for the substrate.


http://www.sagewisdom.org/tsujikawaetal2.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Quote:
Among all plant phenolic extracts, only three (Arenaria
serpyllifolia, Thapsia garganica and Rhamnus alaternus)
were found to inhibit significantly, in a concentration dependent
manner/quote]


Quote:
cleome arabica, aristolochia longa - The plants have shown a potent inhibition of carboxylesterase (CE) enzymatic activity in a concentration-dependent manner.


[quote]Arenaria serpyllifolia
Family: Caryophyllaceae (Pink Family, Starwort Family)

Medicinal use of Thyme-Leaf Sandwort: The plant is antitussive, depurative, diuretic and febrifuge. A decoction of the leaves is used in the treatment of dysentery. It is also used in the treatment of bladder complaints, calculus troubles and acute and chronic cystitis.


Seeds are available on ebay for about $2.50 and grow in a ground covering fashion, it looks just like chickweed.
 
 
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