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Vaporization of Melatonin (N-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine) Options
 
Gone-and-Back
#1 Posted : 11/10/2014 10:10:16 PM
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Over the past year or so, I have read reports of people obtaining psychedelic effects from simple melatonin use. These reports have peaked my interest into the activity of melatonin, and what it can really do other then regulate our sleep cycles.

I remember hearing reports of its effects becoming much more psychedelic at higher dosages or when combined with MAOI's. I figured this was the case because of the body breaking down the melatonin before all of it can be absorbed.

However, as seen with DMT, when vaporized its effects are much stronger at smaller dosages than what is needed for oral consumption to be effective, even with addition of MAOI. This made me wonder if vaporizing a normal dose of melatonin for sleep aid, would instead produce more intense and interesting effects. This brought me to search the web for reports of smoking or vaporizing melatonin, to find nothing. I did find some threads on here however about the extraction and purification of melatonin from the pills found in stores, to remove the pill binders and fillings for people who are allergic to the fillers.

This simple procedure seemed effective from what I had read, so I decided it was a good place to start in obtaining relatively pure melatonin, without the need for special licenses and such. The procedure went as follows;
1. Grind up pills into a powder.
2. Using anhydrous acetone which has been in the freezer for 24 hours, perform three seperate pulls on the pill material.
3. Filter off all remaining solids from the solution, a lab grade filter paper would be best for this as coffee filters allowed some particles to pass through.
4. Evaporate the acetone to yield relatively pure melatonin. It appears as an off-white crystaline powder, which turns more yellow with exposure to air. I assume this is the product oxidizing.

This product weighed slightly over the amount of melatonin that was supposed to be in the pills, but only by about 50-100mgs, which I contribute to the small amount of pill filler that made it through the coffee filter. When the product was vaporized off of a piece of tinfoil, it proceeded to melt into a colorless liquid before finally releasing a very small amount of vapor which smelled of indole.

Happy that the extraction went as planned, I proceeded to get ready to try vaporizing a small portion of it through a bong. I proceeded to load up about a hits worth of marijuana into my bong, and sprinkled a small portion of the extract on the top. This sprinkling was not weighed, but could not of been more then 5-10mgs.

When smoked, it has a slightly plastic like taste, almost like that of DMT. The effects hit almost instantly, giving a strange buzzing feeling throughout my entire body. My vision stretched outwards from me, almost like everything seemed to be further away then what it really was. This was very intense at first, but then slowly faded to a barely noticeable distortion. Colors seemed affected, like they were more vivid and intense. There was not any distortions in the way of breathing walls or anything like that.

My mental process also was affected. It was a very sedating feeling mentally, but at the same time it opened up my mind to higher possibilities and more complex thought processes.

Everything lasted for a couple hours. Not sure of exact duration, as I did not time the experience. If another attempt is made, I will make sure to take note of the time frame of its activity.

All in all this seems like a very interesting substance that needs more research. I would really like to give this a try after vaping a large dose of Harmalas, but alas I have depleted my stash for now, until I can extract more caapi vine.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
universecannon
#2 Posted : 11/10/2014 10:47:07 PM



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It's interesting to hear someone tried it and it seemed to work. The idea of vaping it still scares me to be honest. Swallowing the pure stuff, or even just an accidental inhalation of a tiny burst of the powder into the air when opening the bag, can produce a lot of throat discomfort.

I just put it under the tongue, and have been experimenting with it for 4 or 5 years now. It has a very unique but usually subtle effect, which really shines in the presence of other psychedelics/techniques. My friend describes it like a deep mind lube. Due to artificial lighting and diet I think there is very good reason to believe that we are all chronically deficient in it.

There really is no need to waste money on the pills at the grocery store loaded with additives when the pure bulk stuff is online, but that may be approaching the edge of what we can talk about here.




<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
Nathanial.Dread
#3 Posted : 11/11/2014 2:31:55 AM

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I'd be more convinced if the melatonin was vaporized without the presence of another psychoactive (like cannabis), and preferably with some kind of higher-precision technique than just a light flame.

That's not to delegitimize you're work (which is awesome, btw, I'm definitely intrigued), but the placebo effect is a pretty powerful force, especially when looking at drugs that effect cognition.

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
arcologist
#4 Posted : 11/11/2014 2:48:21 AM

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I saw this thread and ordered some pure powder to play around with. I'll try vaporizing some in my Extreme Q to see how it is under controlled conditions and to see if I can corroborate those effects.
 
Nathanial.Dread
#5 Posted : 11/11/2014 6:17:03 PM

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arcologist wrote:
I saw this thread and ordered some pure powder to play around with. I'll try vaporizing some in my Extreme Q to see how it is under controlled conditions and to see if I can corroborate those effects.

Thumbs up

Can't wait to hear what you find out.

You may want to do a quick wash/re-x, just to be safe. I don't know where you got it from, but I would say be careful buying molecules on-line.

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
embracethevoid
#6 Posted : 11/11/2014 8:10:08 PM

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It does vape. I used to do it a little bit. What happens is that generally you take a hit and it knocks you out. If you can stay awake then there's psychedelia characteristic to melatonin of course.

Perhaps it might be a good way of administering the stuff for night time sleepies Smile

On its own it is not that psychedelic. However I feel that it opens the channel to the other world, perhaps throwing another substance in there might make for the right synergy a la ayahuasca. Melatonin, pot and valerian root makes for some seeerious psychedelic hypnogogic imagery. Harmala and melatonin together is wondrous. If DMT is the Light then melatonin is the Dark Pleased

Melatonin is like $10 for 10g and a dose is maybe 3mg. Might as well buy the bulk. As with most substances I've worked my way up to ridiculous doses. I used to think this stuff was mega scary as 3mg is a sleep-level dose. However I have no issues with 10-50mg. A few times I've taken 120-200mg. Result was deep knockout sleep and next day grogginess, the body processes it well as expected.

Don't quote me on this but from what I hear weed increases melatonin secretion by 4000%. If so, then imagine for instance a 1mg natural synthesis becomes 40mg, which should indicate perhaps how things do down. The times I've taken 200mg were due to withdrawing from smoking weed. It didn't even help that much to tell you the truth. Valerian root works pretty great for reversing caffeine insomnia and also weed insomnia for that matter.
 
hixidom
#7 Posted : 11/11/2014 10:13:24 PM
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In my experience with drugs that are meant to induce sleep, if you can manage to keep yourself awake after taking a high dose then strange things will start to happen. Come to think of it, strange things will also happen if you can't stay awake Pleased
Every day I am thankful that I was introduced to psychedelic drugs.
 
arcologist
#8 Posted : 11/11/2014 11:09:22 PM

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embracethevoid wrote:

Don't quote me on this but from what I hear weed increases melatonin secretion by 4000%. If so, then imagine for instance a 1mg natural synthesis becomes 40mg, which should indicate perhaps how things do down. The times I've taken 200mg were due to withdrawing from smoking weed. It didn't even help that much to tell you the truth. Valerian root works pretty great for reversing caffeine insomnia and also weed insomnia for that matter.


Interesting, I'm a heavy cannabis user so it will be interesting to see how it affects me. I have trouble sleeping without cannabis so maybe it might help with that.
 
jamie
#9 Posted : 11/12/2014 1:05:55 AM

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I have my own feelings on this, concerning the possible conversion of melatonin to other pineal metabolites, specifically 5-MeO-DMT. I don't think it always happens either. If anyone here has ever taken a bunch of melatonin late at night and ended up 40 minutes later spinning in a dark void with very faint fractals, serious ego warpage and vertigo upon standing up etc than we experienced something similar. Maybe I am just odd like that.
Long live the unwoke.
 
DreaMTripper
#10 Posted : 11/12/2014 1:45:43 AM

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arcologist wrote:
embracethevoid wrote:

Don't quote me on this but from what I hear weed increases melatonin secretion by 4000%. If so, then imagine for instance a 1mg natural synthesis becomes 40mg, which should indicate perhaps how things do down. The times I've taken 200mg were due to withdrawing from smoking weed. It didn't even help that much to tell you the truth. Valerian root works pretty great for reversing caffeine insomnia and also weed insomnia for that matter.


Interesting, I'm a heavy cannabis user so it will be interesting to see how it affects me. I have trouble sleeping without cannabis so maybe it might help with that.


members.iowatelecom.net/sharkhaus/marijuana_melatonin.html#11
Indeed your body during cannabis use may get used to having high melatonin levels therefore when you stop using cannabis it has to re-adjust to lower levels and during this period you may struggle to get a good nights sleep. Avoiding unnatursl sources of light after sunset may also help to maximise melatonin production, as well as taking b6 and or 5HTP to fuel biosynthesis of serotonin and consequently melatonin.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin_receptor_agonist#Mechanism_of_action
"Melatonin in the form of prolonged release (trade name Circadin®Pleased was approved in 2007 in Europe (EU) for use as a short-term treatment, in patients 55 years or older, for primary insomnia (poor quality of sleep)."

From what I read melatonin seems an all round good egg, antioxidant, immune system functionionality and of course circadian rythm functionality.

Sometime if I ingest too much cannabis over a prolonged period I get depressed, maybe due to this dominance of melatonin production using up my natural resources that are usually shared between melatonin AND serotonin synthesis in the body therefore leaving me short of serotonin. Interesting.. however I usually supplement with b6 to increase the quality of sleep. Maybe this supplement enables some b6 is left over for the morning for serotonin synthesis which conuteracts the effects of high levels of melatonin...

So I wonder if this increase in melatonin in the brain produces the visuals some of us have experienced after ingesting cannabis? Ive awoken in the middle of the night to acid-like OEV and CEV but that was actually when I hadnt used cannabis.
The other night I took some b6 a couple of hours before bed on a night I had been smoking cannabis and had grid like CEV that became sort of moving picture boards with all manner of bizarre albeit faint 2D animations going on.

Could cannabis and melatonin potentiate DMT visuals?



 
Gone-and-Back
#11 Posted : 11/14/2014 11:03:17 PM
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Well, I am glad people are interested in this.

I tried it again the other night. I did not weigh this dose however, but it was about 4 times as much as the previous attempt. There was a large shift in consciousness, and this was with vaporizing it on top of ash, not cannabis.

It had slightly psychedelic effects again, more so mentally and body wise then visually. My body became extremely relaxed, and had a strong tryptamine like body buzz which lasted for around 2 hours. My mental state became much more introspective, and I stopped communicating to people all together. I sat there for a considerable amount of time just thinking about my life and all the people in it. I had thoughts of my late great aunt frequently, and felt like she was there with me, trying to tell me something. It was very comforting.

All in all it lasted maybe 3 hours until I could not notice any effects at all. It was an enjoyable experience over all.

I really want to try to vaporize some after vaporizing a bunch of harmalas, and see how that works out. But alas, I have no harmalas at the moment. It would also be interesting to see how it mixes with DMT, or maybe even some mushrooms. Maybe these will be future experiments... Big grin
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
Gone-and-Back
#12 Posted : 11/28/2014 6:34:25 PM
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New report to contribute. Not much but its something.

A friend of mine tried vaporizing the melatonin (which I think has oxidized actually since it has turned yellow), and reported somewhat psychedelic effects. He reported that it hit him almost instantly, and that it reminded him a lot of the sensation you get right before blasting off on spice.

He continued to sit there watching tv, and every now and then would seem to snap back and say something along the lines of "that's trippy", or "What was that, did you see/hear that"?

There is definitely something going on here. I think this warrants more research. I would love to see what other people have found who have tested this out. There is no way its just placebo.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
starway6
#13 Posted : 11/29/2014 1:58:21 AM

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This.. vaping of melatonin idea.. is interesting because it is known in lucid dreaming forums that melatonin in right dose taken oraly at bedtime represses REM sleep and often causes a huge dream rebound effect later in the sleep cycle...
I know this to be true because ive experianced a super dream rebound effect many times later in morning hours after a healthy oral dose of melatonin at bedtime..,,
A dream rebound is knowqn to cause a normal dream to be much much more vivid and easier to remember upon waking..
There has been times i became lucid during a dream rebounds and it was an awesome experiance having a full dream body in a beautyfull 3D dream world where anything is posible...
Melatonin may well have a link to a dmt like experiance because it may awaken our natural DMT in some way?
 
Gone-and-Back
#14 Posted : 11/29/2014 5:22:56 PM
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I think what happens with melatonin is that if you ingest enough of it quickly, your body can only metabolize a certain portion of it normally. In order to get rid of the excess, maybe our bodies are sending different enzymes and such to do the job, thus creating something different from the normal metabolite of melatonin (whatever that may be).

I dont know if this actually happens, just a theory. I dont have much medical knowledge.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
universecannon
#15 Posted : 11/29/2014 5:23:48 PM



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starway6 wrote:

Melatonin may well have a link to a dmt like experiance because it may awaken our natural DMT in some way?


Or it's possible that through it's change into pinoline, an endogenous MAOI, it is just potentiating tryptamines already present (or its possible partial conversion to 5-meo-dmt, as benzyme and jamie have theorized.). Or maybe both, or neither, we don't really know for certain I guess.

There is also one study I found a few years ago showing melatonin increases our own endogenous production of melatonin, even when you stop taking it, so there may be an interesting feedback loop indicated there, which probably would involve other endogenous beta-carbolines (there are quite a few) and tryptamines. In any case, I know that melatonin combines very well with DMT and psychedelics for me.

I know that some people do go into some psychedelic states with melatonin alone at times, and there is a long history of going into darkness to achieve psychedelic states - something that, these days, is known as "dark rooming", and people report states similar to a kind of ayahuasca they term "endohuasca", supposedly (darkness is known to increase pineal activity/melatonin production). I haven't tried it, but I know that dosing harmalas/dmt in darkness does seem to greatly amplify the effect, and being very familiar with melatonin/harmalas, I can tell darkness alone greatly increases the effects they illicit for me...A sensory deprivation tank, for example, really seemed to ramp up that process to the point of visions.

For me, you could say that melatonin has subtle harmala and trytpamine qualities in some ways, but these don't really manifest fully without some kind of 'push'. If I do my usual techniques to bring in some tryptamine states, some added melatonin always seems to greatly aid this process. The actual biochemistry involved in what is going on during dreams or "sober" altered states is probably a very hard to understand complex orchestra of interactions and processes I think. But there are some clues that some of the above may be involved.



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
Gone-and-Back
#16 Posted : 11/29/2014 5:36:30 PM
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Thats interesting that taking melatonin actually increases the bodies natural supply of melatonin. Is that just because of the fact that the body doesnt need to use its own supply, so it just continues to build up while your taking the supplemented melatonin?

Universecannon, you also mentioned the transformation of melatonin into pinoline, is this what melatonin is naturally broken down into in humans? If so, that makes sense. After ingesting a decent dose of melatonin, a few hours after almost everything that I consume seems to be intensified. Maybe its just placebo, or the fact that I am sleepy from the melatonin.

Can you elaborate on how melatonin combines well with other psychedelics? Did you vape it while on other substances, or just take some orally at the same time as the other substances? Since I have been trying vaporizing the melatonin, I have often thought of what it would be like to combine say, 10-15mg melatonin, into a dose of changa or DMT. I would need to experiment with the melatonin and harmala combination and melatonin/dmt combo before jumping right into the changa mix though. Better to try them like that before throwing all three into the mix together.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
starway6
#17 Posted : 11/30/2014 1:18:39 AM

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One thing im pretty shure of is the vaporizing of melatonin is going to deliver more of it to your system than just taking it oraly as some of it gets wasted in the harsh enviorment of the digestive tract...
There are more positive things about melatonin than just aiding sleep...

The buzzing feeling all over your body as was claimed in post above sounds much like what i have went through atempting lucid dreaming many times in past..
The buzzing or vibrating of the body can come on durring ..[ Rapid Eye movement sleep] in the later half of the sleep cycle..
For some it signals that your near an to out of body experiance...or your about to seperate from your physical body to a lucid dream or OBE...
Ive learned that the bodily buzzing or vibrating is like a sign post that you are near a state of sleep paraylisis..or an on comming dream state that sometimes becomes lucid...and its also posible you could just awaken out of your sleep because of all the excitement..
This kind of stuff has been discussed on lucid dreaming forums as i have spent 7 years on such forums...
Anything experianced in a DMT trip can be dupilcated in a dream.....
 
SKA
#18 Posted : 11/30/2014 3:45:02 AM
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Do let us know how it goes. We're all very curious.

It just struck me that, though you could vaporise Melatonin to bypass the MAOs in the gut
and get a higher dose of it in your blood at once...

for that purpose why not try and snort Melatonin?
Usually I am no fan of snorting anything...but snorting Melatonin seems interresting.
 
dreamer042
#19 Posted : 11/30/2014 4:33:03 AM

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Attempt 1: 10 mg
Quote:
04:24:59 ‹Toadisattva›alright ground control melatonin vaping experiment number is about to commence
04:25:09 ‹Toadisattva›number 1
04:26:45 ‹Toadisattva›alright here we go
04:29:38 ‹Toadisattva›so no real flavor to speak of just tasted like the mullein
04:29:49 ‹Toadisattva›definite effect but it's hard to put my finger on it
04:30:06 ‹Toadisattva›it's more like harmalas than a tryptamine
04:30:24 ‹Toadisattva›it's quite serene
04:30:54 ‹Toadisattva›slightly euphoric but not pushy in any way
04:31:17 ‹Toadisattva›it's almost almost a bit like cannabis actually
04:31:26 ‹Toadisattva›I wanna try a bigger dose
04:31:28 ‹Toadisattva›lol
04:33:23 ‹Toadisattva›seems to fade pretty quickly
04:33:28 ‹Toadisattva›I think I'll try 20 mg

Attempt 2: 20 mg
Quote:
04:33:55 ‹Toadisattva›alright I'm gonna load 20
04:33:59 ‹Toadisattva›lets chase this rabbit
04:34:13 ‹Toadisattva›I'm still al ittlel melatonin high from the first one
04:34:20 ‹Toadisattva›so we'll see how stacking it goes
04:35:37 ‹Toadisattva›alright round 2 20 mg
04:36:04 ‹Toadisattva›here we go
04:37:50 ‹Toadisattva›okay its quite a bit stronger at 20mg
04:37:58 ‹Toadisattva›still tasteless only the mullein flavor
04:38:19 ‹Toadisattva›no it's much closer to harmalas and/or cannabis than a tryptamine
04:38:29 ‹Toadisattva›I feel kinda floaty
04:38:35 ‹Toadisattva›very calm and relaxed
04:38:44 ‹Toadisattva›it's quite pleasant really
04:38:54 ‹Toadisattva›pushing into being a little sleepy
04:39:02 ‹Toadisattva›I could see a big dose being ready for bedtime
04:39:17 ‹Toadisattva›perhaps some slight patterning behind the closed eyes
04:39:34 ‹Toadisattva›but I can't really attribute that to the melatonin that may just be the normal patterning
04:40:03 ‹Toadisattva›I will have to try it not staring at the computer later on and see if I can coax out a visionary space
04:40:12 ‹Toadisattva›it vapes nice
04:40:15 ‹Toadisattva›clean smooth and fast
04:40:37 ‹Toadisattva›it's pretty similar to effect it has when I eat it
04:40:43 ‹Toadisattva›the heaviness and tiredness coming up
04:40:52 ‹Toadisattva›I'm almost tempted to go for 30mg
04:41:19 ‹Toadisattva›yeah short lasting
04:41:27 ‹Toadisattva›not very pushy with the effect
04:41:35 ‹Toadisattva›I'd say + on the shulgin scale

Attempt 3: 30 mg
Quote:
04:58:22 ‹Toadisattva›okay I'm gonna do 30mg
04:58:25 ‹Toadisattva›:-}
04:58:53 ‹Toadisattva›I like this smoalked melatonin
04:58:55 ‹Toadisattva›I'm gonna do this moar
05:00:59 ‹Toadisattva›alright 30mg here we go
05:03:20 ‹Toadisattva›oh that's nice
05:03:41 ‹Toadisattva›just the slightest beginnig of some translucent closed eye patterning
05:03:47 ‹Toadisattva›really dreamy headspace
05:04:11 ‹Toadisattva›be feelin pancakedlike on harmalas
5:04:43 ‹Toadisattva›oh yeah I'm thinking like 50mg of this at bedtime
05:04:49 ‹Toadisattva›some proper dreamspace
05:04:59 ‹Toadisattva›now I gotta try it with harmalas
05:05:05 ‹Toadisattva›Ithink this would be an excellent addition to changa
05:05:45 ‹Toadisattva›mmm this is super nice

Verdict:
Quote:
05:13:32 ‹Toadisattva›I think my final verdict is that it's better to just eat the melatonin
05:13:51 ‹Toadisattva›this is too quick a come up and come down and it uses up a lot of it
05:15:14 ‹Toadisattva›I'll try it with some harmalas and changa another day
05:15:21 ‹Toadisattva›but for now I'm thinking oral is the way to go


As of this writing time is 05:33 chat time, I'm still feeling the after effects as I write this, it's similar to the last lingering bit of a cannabis high very calm and pleasant but sleepy.

Edit: Sleep came very easily, dreaming was particularly vivid and intense, woke earlier than usual, slightly groggy but feeling great.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
downwardsfromzero
#20 Posted : 1/15/2015 2:54:11 AM

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As far as pinoline goes, is that the direct result of Pictet-Spengler cyclisation of melatonin, i.e. 6-methoxy-1-methyl-3,4-dihydrobetacarboline? Vaporisation may well favour this reaction to some degree.

Harmaline is, of course, 7-methoxy-1-methyl-3,4-dihydrobetacarboline. I wonder how much difference the 'relocation' of that methoxy group makes.
Quote:
05:04:11 ‹Toadisattva›be feelin pancakedlike on harmalas

Could well be the case...




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
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