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psilocybe cyanescens vs panaleous cyanescens? Options
 
Al-Wasi
#1 Posted : 11/8/2014 9:50:45 AM

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I'm rather confused on which of these strains is the super potent one? Also I've heard there is a strain called blue meanies which there is a lot of confusion about. Its my understanding that spore vendors have started calling a psilocybin strain blue meanies when in fact the original blue meanie is in fact a pan cyan? Am I correct about this?

Overall I'm trying to figure out which cyan is the ultra potent strain.

And are both pan and psilo cyans wood lovers?
That moment when you wonder if this time you went too far....

Obviously everything discussed here is the fictional accounts of someone with an out there imagination. I mean really could any of these tales be real?
 

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infinitynlove
#2 Posted : 11/8/2014 10:57:46 AM

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Al-Wasi wrote:
I'm rather confused on which of these strains is the super potent one? Also I've heard there is a strain called blue meanies which there is a lot of confusion about. Its my understanding that spore vendors have started calling a psilocybin strain blue meanies when in fact the original blue meanie is in fact a pan cyan? Am I correct about this?

Overall I'm trying to figure out which cyan is the ultra potent strain.

And are both pan and psilo cyans wood lovers?


hi there

I cannot answer your question about blue meanins
I cannot answer your question about both of them being wood lovers

But I can say that for doses of common psilocybin containing mushrooms, use the shroomery dosage calculator <3

I hope this helps

Peace
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Old Crow
#3 Posted : 11/8/2014 1:44:33 PM

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"The Blue Meanie strain that Ralph sells is p.cubensis and was named by the "keeper" from STP.

Ralph of course is being very deceptive by posting a description of a pan:

Blue Meanie

Copelandia cyanescens also known as Panaeolus cyanescens, and nicknamed "copes" or "Blue Meanies", are one of the most potent psychoactive mushroom species in the world. In weight comparison, their psycho activity towers 2-to-3 times over that of the Psilocybe cubensis (Golden Teacher).

and then showing pictures of what he is actually selling which is quite obviously Psilocybe cubensis:
"

Found this on the shroomery forum. It may help you out.

And so if I consume 2 times more of my Golden teachers ( Cubensis eh) I'm at the same place rightThumbs up Or is there something more with these Pan cyanescens.. I need to grow some of these.

The symmetry is amazing with the cubensis, can Pan show me more?...Rolling eyes
 
d*l*b
#4 Posted : 11/8/2014 3:13:13 PM

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Copelandia cyanescens are far stronger than cubes and have a distinctly different feel.

I understand they are not as easy to grow as cubes. Hopefully I will get round to growing them in the next year or so, they are my joint favourite mushrooms along with liberty caps.
D × V × F > R
 
Old Crow
#5 Posted : 11/8/2014 3:42:18 PM

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I want to try growing them too, and I'm sure the effects will be different. They are not the same thing...
 
benzyme
#6 Posted : 11/8/2014 4:48:04 PM

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Al-Wasi wrote:
I'm rather confused on which of these strains is the super potent one? Also I've heard there is a strain called blue meanies which there is a lot of confusion about. Its my understanding that spore vendors have started calling a psilocybin strain blue meanies when in fact the original blue meanie is in fact a pan cyan? Am I correct about this?

Overall I'm trying to figure out which cyan is the ultra potent strain.

And are both pan and psilo cyans wood lovers?


no.

panaeolus cyanescens (aka coplandia cyanescens) are dung-lovers, they prefer month-old cow or horse dung. they are the original 'blue meanies'. Panaeolus Cyanescens grow in tropic/subtropical climates, their Psilocybe counterparts are found in the deciduous forest regions, further north. They are the wood-lovers.
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dreamer042
#7 Posted : 11/8/2014 4:52:17 PM

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Psilocybe cyanescens are woodlovers that grow in temperate climates and fruit in colder temperatures. They are are just a tad stronger than your average cubensis, a gram of these guys is on par with 2 grams or so of cubensis

Panaeolus cyanescens are dung lovers that grow in tropical/subtropical climates and fruit in warmer temperatures. These are significantly stronger than cubensis, a gram of these is on par with 3-4 grams of cubensis.

I know most of the blue meanie spores carried by vendors are cubensis, but I can see the origin of the name being a reference to pan cyans.

Pan cyans are not really that much harder to grow than cubensis, there are plenty of teks around. They are far and above the cleanest clearest and most potent mushrooms I have ever encountered, tread lightly with these guys. Cool

Edit: I see Benz beat me to it. Thanks for the clarification on the blue meanie bit. Thumbs up
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Al-Wasi
#8 Posted : 11/8/2014 5:56:12 PM

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Thanks for all the replies. Hopefully I can get my hands on these guys or learn how to grow them.

That moment when you wonder if this time you went too far....

Obviously everything discussed here is the fictional accounts of someone with an out there imagination. I mean really could any of these tales be real?
 
Old Crow
#9 Posted : 11/8/2014 6:37:07 PM

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dreamer042 wrote:


Pan cyans are not really that much harder to grow than cubensis, there are plenty of teks around. They are far and above the cleanest clearest and most potent mushrooms I have ever encountered, tread lightly with these guys. Cool



I was always interested in trying this, and now you got my attention. I will need to go find a good tek. I have a good source for spores. I have been doing casing from grain, and doing G2G stuff too.

What a great hobby.Smile
 
ManicMongrel
#10 Posted : 11/8/2014 6:59:02 PM
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Paneolus cyanescens/cambodginisis/tropicalis sits on the throne, and it's lonely on the top because woodlovers doesn't even come close.

Whatever you do, don't dry them! They loose about 4/5 of the potency when dried.

The easiest way to grow them is to germinate on agar then transplant to manure and straw based substrate, grains are completely unnecessary in every way, grains just triple the chance of contaminants.

 
Old Crow
#11 Posted : 11/8/2014 8:12:58 PM

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I'm not equipped to do agar but I guess I could fix that, I have next to no contams with grains so this is why I like it and see no reason for change, but learning new things is always good.

Will they not work with grain as any other cubensis would? Also need to find a vendor for prints/spores... my vendor does not have them.
 
anrchy
#12 Posted : 11/8/2014 9:12:44 PM

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ManicMongrel wrote:

Whatever you do, don't dry them! They loose about 4/5 of the potency when dried.


Source?
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d*l*b
#13 Posted : 11/9/2014 12:27:38 AM

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Although I haven’t heard numbers like that before, Copelandia/Panaeolus cyanescens have a fair percentage of psilocin which is likely to deteriorate.

Some info referencing constituents and also deterioration via oxidation in this paper (I have only had a brief look):

http://www.shroomery.org/8697/Stijve-T-1992-Psilocin-psilocybin-serotonin-and-urea-in-Panaeolus-cyanescens-from-various-origin
D × V × F > R
 
anrchy
#14 Posted : 11/9/2014 1:09:46 AM

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The article you presented and its relative info d*l*b.

Quote:
"The material was received in air-dried condition and stored at 5deg C in air-tight containers. Considering that some of the possible present compunds such as psilocin are sensitive to oxygen and enzymatic activity, the fungi were analyzed soon after receipt."


Quote:
"There was no indication of significant degradation of the material having occurred between collection and analysis. In fact, the most labile compound, psilocin, was invariably found to be accompanied by its primary oxidation product observed as a greenish spot just below psilocin during TLC in the cellulose/BAW system (Stijve et al., 1984) but its concentration rarely exceeded 0.02%, which added little to the total psilocin content."

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d*l*b
#15 Posted : 11/9/2014 1:23:25 AM

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Thank you for reading it a bit more carefully than I have! The common advice is that psilocin doesn’t like drying and that it is severely detrimental to psilocin-heavy fungi, the second quote there seems to say that the difference was found to be minimal. Common advice is not always reality, I guess one paper is not much to make assumptions from though. It would be good to see more info from other sources if anyone can find it.
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benzyme
#16 Posted : 11/9/2014 3:46:24 AM

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anrchy wrote:
The article you presented and its relative info d*l*b.

Quote:
"The material was received in air-dried condition and stored at 5deg C in air-tight containers. Considering that some of the possible present compunds such as psilocin are sensitive to oxygen and enzymatic activity, the fungi were analyzed soon after receipt."


Quote:
"There was no indication of significant degradation of the material having occurred between collection and analysis. In fact, the most labile compound, psilocin, was invariably found to be accompanied by its primary oxidation product observed as a greenish spot just below psilocin during TLC in the cellulose/BAW system (Stijve et al., 1984) but its concentration rarely exceeded 0.02%, which added little to the total psilocin content."



a greenish spot is likely indicative of an enzyme-bound byproduct, which points to oxidation, especially if you observe the theory Shulgin proposed that psilocin exists as a zwitterion.

this has been the observed product of a simple A/B, with basification occuring around pH 8.
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infinitynlove
#17 Posted : 11/10/2014 3:39:39 AM

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Superb !!

I have learned so much from this thread and then going off and engaging in some further research, thank you to the original poster and all who have replied.

I <3 this place

Peace
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention in fact everything I write here is a lie !

I hope in some way, my posts and replies may of helped you, I hope you like what I have said here if not feel free to send me a none flame PM
 
ManicMongrel
#18 Posted : 11/10/2014 3:12:04 PM
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anrchy wrote:
ManicMongrel wrote:

Whatever you do, don't dry them! They loose about 4/5 of the potency when dried.


Source?


Psilocin is vulnerable to oxidation because of the phenolic group, you can look up any textbook in organic chemistry and see why. You don't need a research paper to know whether most of the psilocin and psilocybin has oxidized into inactive degradation products, anyone who has experience with growing or hunting panaeolus cyanescens know they do not take drying well, you can dip a dried mushroom in water and see it turn bluish black very quick. The fact that you need far more dried mushrooms than fresh for half of the effect can be verified any time.

Why psilocybin is dephosphorylated when the mushrooms dries up could have something to do with psilocin being an insect detergent [Plants and the human brain, David O. Kennedy]. (Detergent being something that slow down the rate of feeding, not necessarily by being toxic). It would make sense that dephosphorylation compounds or enzymes would be present to convert the prodrug psilocybin into the active psilocin faster when exposed to oxygen which would happen when insects feed on the mushroom.
 
anrchy
#19 Posted : 11/11/2014 12:32:45 AM

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Im assuming you meant 4/5ths of the potency, which i disagree with. Yes i know why, and that there is loss due to oxidation but your claim is extremely high imo.

There doesnt seem to have been much research into the amount that is lost so i disagree, psilocybin abd psilocin are fairly protected by being in the mushroom. The source i was asking for was the amount you presented, not that there was loss in the first place. I apologize for that misunderstanding.
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ManicMongrel
#20 Posted : 11/11/2014 12:52:46 AM
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Psilocybes like Liberty caps and cubensis can be dried with practically no loss, a few exceptions are azurescens, weraroa and so on. For the copelandia mushrooms (which was recently identified as a sepparate family), the loss is very high, especially cyanescens and tropicalis. Try 10g fresh and comapre it to 0.8g dry, its a bit like comparing dmt to 1g of cubensis.
 
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