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Golden Harmala HCL - anyone seen this before? Options
 
macguyver
#1 Posted : 11/3/2014 11:37:51 AM
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I've used the Tao of Rue Extraction tek, and following a couple of Manske pulls, I now have Harmine HCL - but it's Gold. Looks like fine weave Gold wool or something (see pic).



In the Tao wiki pics, the cyrstals look orangey-red. When I've bought Harmaline HCL before it's been a kind of beige powder, so I presume if I grind this up it will end up similar to that...

Just wondering if anyone had seen Golden harmalas!?
 

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obliguhl
#2 Posted : 11/3/2014 12:54:48 PM

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Yes, this color is normal for clean harmala HLC. Looks beautiful, doesn't it Smile

Once you freebase it, it is bound to become off-white in color.
 
NamRa
#3 Posted : 11/3/2014 6:48:41 PM

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Striking gold feels good Big grin
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macguyver
#4 Posted : 11/3/2014 9:57:11 PM
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Yes, beautiful. Big grin
 
BundleflowerPower
#5 Posted : 11/4/2014 12:55:30 AM

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Nice result. Did you taste it? Should be incredibly bitter.

I've found that the more salt-outs I do, the more it looks like what you have. The first round I get brown needles, then the more time I repeat, the finer and lighter it becomes.
 
arcologist
#6 Posted : 11/4/2014 1:40:14 AM

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That's the good stuff, the true color of pure harmala HCl.
 
YTXian
#7 Posted : 11/19/2014 10:36:03 PM

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Keep going! It will turn white and then you know it'S CLEAN OF PERGININE, WHICH IS AN ABORTIFICANT among other side affects. It's also alot less nauseating that way.Thumbs up
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SnozzleBerry
#8 Posted : 11/19/2014 10:44:21 PM

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YTXian wrote:
Keep going! It will turn white and then you know it'S CLEAN OF PERGININE, WHICH IS AN ABORTIFICANT among other side affects. It's also alot less nauseating that way.Thumbs up

I assume you mean peganine (the older name for vasicine)? Pure harmine/harmaline hcl is yellow/gold. The freebase form is off-white when pure. Also, at sufficient doses, harmalas are quite nauseating on their own.
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wearepeople
#9 Posted : 11/22/2014 6:21:57 AM

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YTXian,

Check out this thread: Vasicinone, Vasicine and Deoxyvasicine.

It talks about these chemicals in relation to Rue extraction.

Also, just because something is an abortifacient does not make it bad.

Enjoy!
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YTXian
#10 Posted : 11/27/2014 5:55:27 AM

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I did not say anything was "bad".
Thankyou for the correction Snozzleberry. That is what I ment.
In this world there are adults and there are children. In fact the world is filled with children; they are angry and hurt, frightened and abused, lazy and ignorant, stubborn and hateful. The world hates an adult and they would rather cause their peers to fail at any venture of self improvement before having to step up and improve their selves so as to maintain pecking order and evidence of the lowley opinion they have of each other. The best of them enslave the others so that they all consume and destroy all there lives in order to satisfy their immense greed claiming that they are providing a future for their legacy and never question the possibility of doing better in order to leave a real future for the children they will leave behind on this, our Earth. They pretend that it is impossible and when cornered they admit their apathy saying that they won't be around to suffer the out come. They hate the adults for exposing their immense weekness. The total failure that they call success. Mean while the adults strive to minimize their own impact and perpetually work to undo the damage already done. The adults who already know; they are the children of tomorrow.
 
blue.magic
#11 Posted : 6/5/2017 4:27:50 PM

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How could you end up with HCl salt?

The "Tao of Rue Extraction tek" ends with basing and drying (Step 11, 12) - the harmalas should therefore be in freebase form.

Have you salted it additionaly?

I am asking because, according to Tek, one should end up with freebase. I also know that salt form is usually better for ingestion and storage so I am now confused what it the proper tek...

P.S. My harmala HCl crystals are dark red and freebase is muddy brown color (maybe due to little excess sodium carbonate).
 
ijahdan
#12 Posted : 6/5/2017 6:38:08 PM

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I think the OP meant they got golden crystals of harmala hcl following one of the 'manske' purification stages. The hcl will look more golden with each successive manske, as it becomes purer. The tek can be finished either after a manske stage, giving the hcl form ie for oral use, or after a basification stage, yielding the freebase form (smokeable). I usually alternate freebasing and manske-ing a few times during the purification process.

 
endlessness
#13 Posted : 6/5/2017 7:25:37 PM

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Is normal (and beautiful) Smile
 
blue.magic
#14 Posted : 6/5/2017 11:50:59 PM

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ijahdan wrote:
The tek can be finished either after a manske stage, giving the hcl form ie for oral use


I see.

Harmalas glow in UV light (that way one can guess harmine/harmaline concentration) so maybe this contributes to the golden color... This is a photo of harmala teas made today. I can't wait to see the dissolved extract glow Pleased

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skoobysnax
#15 Posted : 10/30/2018 3:10:22 AM

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If we are not making changa and using orally stopping with HCL is fine right? I have always based it.
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padawan
#16 Posted : 10/30/2018 4:41:36 AM

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Yeah, I think that's the case. But check the weights - I don't know what the equivalent weights are between the same amount of harmalas in HCL verses FB form. Might be wise to weigh your HCL golden fluff then base it out completely to get the weight conversion right. After that re-manske and you'll know what HCL dosage to aim for.

And then let me know what the conversion is Smile I did a PH separation the other day, and from just over 6g of mixed harmala HCL, I ended up with about 1.5g harmine and 1.25g harmaline. It might suggest that a lot (perhaps half) the HCL harmala weight is salt, chlorine or whatever. But I had a few dramas on that one, so wouldn't take that experience for gospel.
 
Jees
#17 Posted : 10/30/2018 11:58:41 AM

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Oral: freebase and salt form all is okay Thumbs up
100 Salt form is approx 85 FB form.
 
blue.magic
#18 Posted : 10/30/2018 3:25:17 PM

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Yes I made golden harmala once but it took 6 recrystallizations.

I found later that re-acidifying and filtering, reduces the number of re-x steps.

I now do just 4 recrystallizations so the harmala.HCl is more brown, but with the extra filtering it gets more towards golden.

I will play some day with freebase recrystallization from alcohol instead of Manske to see how efficient it is. Unlike salt, alcohol can be easily recycled.
 
Aum_Shanti
#19 Posted : 10/30/2018 6:14:29 PM
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Quote:
100 Salt form is approx 85 FB form.


AFAIR the original works about Harmalas, the yellow color is actually due to water inclusion into the structure (hydrate), and that pure dry HCl salt would be white/transparent. AFAIR it can be got by using strong HCl acid. But would again have to look up, if I still remember this correctly...

This would basically mean, one would have to consider also the water weight, when converting.
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Auxin
#20 Posted : 10/31/2018 4:33:41 PM

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If working with an equal mixture of harmine and harmaline:
One gram of harmine/harmaline dihydrate hydrochloride will yield 874 mg of anhydrous harmine/harmaline hydrochloride.
One gram of harmine/harmaline dihydrate hydrochloride will yield 746 mg of harmine/harmaline freebase.
So to go from manske crystal to freebase multiply by 3/4, to go from freebase to manske crystal multiply by 4/3.

I dont think I've ever seen someone intentionally make the anhydrous hydrochloride salts.
 
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