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Nightmarish Kratom Experience & After-Effects Options
 
Nathanial.Dread
#1 Posted : 8/5/2014 8:55:44 PM

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I'm mostly posting this to get the information out there and help contribute the the literature on Kratom. It's about 24 hours after I dosed (3 grams + 1 additional gram about an hour later), and I feel like absolute s**t. I've tried kratom 3 times before: 2 grams wasn't that impressive, 6 definitely felt like overdose (profound sedation, dysphoria, extreme nausea etc) so I thought I was aiming for a middle-of-the-road dose but I am done now. Going to liquidate the rest of my ounce tonight.

The experience started out well enough, I dosed 3g around 2pm, to give myself plenty of time to be back by bedtime (everyone agrees Kratom interferes with sleep and based on my low-dose experiments and research, ~6 hours seemed about right) after eating a very light meal. After about an hour, I didn't feel as much as I wanted so took another gram. It kicked in earnest not long after that: I felt all the usual effects (lethargy, itching, feelings of well-being, although nothing I'd call euphoria or anything all that impressive), and ended up going into a pretty deep nod around 3:30, which lasted until 5:00. At that point, the well-being seemed to fade and nausea set in pretty badly.

Every time I got up to urinate (which Kratom makes me do a lot) I became dizzy and nauseous. As long as I lay in bed not doing anything I was okay, but very quickly, anxiety and feelings of profound 'wrongness' set in. By about 9:00pm (7+ hours after first dose) I was having very bizarre experiences. I was getting closed eye visuals of people who seemed to be covered in mold or fungi and 'hearing' a kind of toothless mumbling that disturbed me immensely. It sounded like the noise a severely mentally challenged person might make, and my head was full of thoughts of ordinary people subjected to ruinous torture and experimentation.

When I closed my eyes, I would quickly loose a sense of where I was, feeling like I was staring down into some alternately enormously deep space, or like a wall was rushing towards me. Every time I shifted, my heart rate spiked abnormally high and I was seized with nausea.

Eventually, around midnight (t+10hrs) I fell asleep and had abnormally strange dreams. If I had to pick a word to describe the evening, the only one that does it justice is 'lovecraftian.'

Today, I still feel terrible, although not as bad as I did the night before. Eating makes me nauseous and every time I stand up, I get a terrible head rush and dizziness. Worse, I am incredibly anxious, seemingly innocuous things trigger intense feelings of stress and my heart rate has been elevated all day. I considered going for a run, but I can't seem to get motivated to do anything, I've spent the entire day on the couch, thinking that I *should* be getting something done (thankfully I have this week off from morning class), but just can't seem to be able to. Nothing is appealing, nothing seems worth it. My focus is absolutely shot (it took me about an hour to write this).

To cap it all off, I can feel a truly epic migraine coming on.

I am convinced that there is more going on with kratom than just opiate receptor agonism. Perhaps some kind of serotonergic activity brought about the lightly psychotic effects from last night, and maybe some kind of residual adrengeric activity could explain my strange anxiety/stress all day.

I'll see how I feel tomorrow.
Hopefully if someone else ends up going through this and searching for help, they'll find this post and know they're not alone.

It was total 4 grams of Sumatra Red Vein kratom, nothing abnormally high. Maybe it's just my brain chemistry, but this feel less like a recreational drug and more like a very effective instrument of torture. 5+ hours of mediocre pseudo-opiate glow is hardly worth another 20 hours of this.

(For the record, I do not use opiates at all, rarely smoke cannabis and have been taking a break from psychedelics as I focus on school work and other methods of spiritual and self-development. The only drug I regularly take is benadryl, for insomnia, and the last time I used that was a week ago, so I doubt it was any sort of lingering drug interaction. My last kratom experience had been 3 weeks ago.)


Blessings
~ND
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The Day Tripper
#2 Posted : 8/6/2014 1:34:30 AM

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Without getting into specifics, how much do you trust the source of your kratom to not give you something adulterated with something like des methyl tramadol, or other rcs?

I only ask because its been known to happen, and the effects you describe don't match up with anecdotal evidence, or my own expirences. I take kratom daily, and have never had it interfere with my sleep, or exhibit the effects you describe. In fact it helps me sleep, and thats the consensus I've gotten from IRL people I've introduced to kratom.

But everyone reacts differently, and it could have just been something due to your body chemistry.

Kratom definitely has a lot more going on than opioid receptor activity though, there's a whole plethora of active alkaloids in the plant with a gamut of different pharmacological effects.
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Nathanial.Dread
#3 Posted : 8/6/2014 3:48:05 AM

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I don't have access to any rigorous testing right now, so I can't rule it out, but I'm reasonably confident it was just dried kratom leaf. The website I bought it from had a number of 5 star reviews, and the effects/dosing guidelines they presented seemed pretty much accurate, based on my other three explorations.

One thing I didn't mention is that I have a history of anxiety/OCD-like symptoms, so it's possible that my reaction was abnormal. Some web-searching will pull up a handful of people who have had similar effects (odd hypnagogic hallucinations, day-after effects, etc), although nothing that sounds as severe as what I went through today.

I feel pretty much back to baseline at this point, just tired. I would say it took me a good 30 hours to feel like myself again.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like maybe there's something in kratom that acts as an long-acting (or delayed-acting) adrenergic agonist. One of the most profound symptoms I experienced today was the feeling of adrenaline rush: shaky, weak, elevated heart-rate and jumpy. I think there's something serotonergic in there as well.

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
SpartanII
#4 Posted : 8/7/2014 3:55:23 AM

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Nathanial.Dread wrote:
One thing I didn't mention is that I have a history of anxiety/OCD-like symptoms, so it's possible that my reaction was abnormal.


I suspect this may have had something to do with your reaction.

I've had a lot of experience with kratom as well as traditional opiates/opioids over the years, and have never had the effects you describe. Actually, kratom is well known for it's anxiolytic properties.



 
MaNoMaNoM
#5 Posted : 8/7/2014 4:37:58 AM

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Guessing it made you sick. Try making a tea and straining out most of the plant material.
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SpartanII
#6 Posted : 8/7/2014 5:34:47 AM

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MaNoMaNoM wrote:
Guessing it made you sick. Try making a tea and straining out most of the plant material.


He described some pretty uncommon mental reactions to it so I'm thinking there's more to it than that.

Besides, I don't see how making tea would be any less nauseating (besides removing the grainy plant material to prevent the gag reflex while drinking it).
 
kerelsk
#7 Posted : 8/8/2014 2:42:37 AM

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This was all from the same material? Was it powdered and mixed or loose leaf?

Personally I think the doses people consider 'normal' for kratom are extremely high. Anything above a gram for me is deep water and usually filled with bad side effects. There is some variation among strains, some seem to have more severe and completely different side effects.

I don't go above a gram per dose of my usual Bali. Most of the time I'll take 200-500mg. This is just enough to give me a slight euphoria useful for physical labor.

After using it about 3 times a day for a few days the plant tells me to quit it, makes me feel exhausted, no euphoria, few benefits. Quit for a few days, take a dose at night and it's got its little helper quality back.
Never had such intense effects as you mention, but I've never taken such a high dose. It can get on my nerves with higher doses. Headaches are common, strange thoughts that "just aren't me" too.

Be careful, I don't think kratom is dangerous, but it can definitely be hugely unpleasant. Drink lots of water, flush it out of your system, and start again very small (100mg or so). If you're sensitive you'll be able to feel it.

Maybe it just isn't meant for you N.D, but I hope you'll decide what's best for you.
Much luck.
 
Purges
#8 Posted : 8/8/2014 12:46:57 PM

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This is strange. I had some sumatran red vein and had to eat 9-10g of leaf powder for strong effect. The worst part of the experience was always trying to neck all that rank tasting powder. I think maybe it has triggered some latent anxiety, but again that is strange since it's something I would take if I felt anxious...
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SpartanII
#9 Posted : 8/8/2014 9:27:13 PM

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Purges wrote:
This is strange. I had some sumatran red vein and had to eat 9-10g of leaf powder for strong effect. The worst part of the experience was always trying to neck all that rank tasting powder. I think maybe it has triggered some latent anxiety, but again that is strange since it's something I would take if I felt anxious...



Yeah.Sick This is why I stick with extracts/fortified leaf.


Using much less plant matter, you can easily encapsulate it or put a few drops of extract in some juice. You just have to be mindful of dosage and frequency of use, as tolerance can rise rapidly using this form of kratom. I would recommend this ROA if you are having problems consuming plain leaf.

Due to my years of opiate abuse, I can't even feel kratom anymore unless it's a triple dose of full spectrum extract or a few grams of ultra enhanced indo (which typically has a threshold dose of 250 mg).
 
tatt
#10 Posted : 8/9/2014 7:27:32 PM
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I've taken many varieties of high quality leaf over the course of several years. This is one plant I know well.

Tbh, i've never had any of the reactions/effects that you've stated ND. Im sorry to hear about this. Tbh, it sounds like your one of the people, that physiologically speaking, just doesn't receive it all that well, based on everything you stated.

Nathanial.Dread wrote:

One thing I didn't mention is that I have a history of anxiety/OCD-like symptoms, so it's possible that my reaction was abnormal.


Bingo.
 
Heretic
#11 Posted : 9/2/2014 9:23:49 AM

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I have also had some nightmarish experiences with Kratom, although this was upon cessation of use, not from direct use itself. Long lasting delayed withdrawals very similar to your experience. The withdrawals did not start kicking in until days after my last dose and there was a PAWS for quite a while. I think the leaf was adulterated & that there are actually quite a few vendors unknowingly selling laced leaf. None of the homegrown I have tried can make me come close to nodding but commercial leaf is well capable of. Makes me wonder... I am sad that I can no longer take this herb because of this experience. I wonder also how many of these people who speak of no side effects from use have actually quit cold turkey for a month.
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