I've seen some really interesting stuff on the forum about deities and Shiva has a particular fascination for me for a couple of reasons.

First of all, he reminds me of Chemchok Heruka Buddha, A/K/A Mahakala, in that one of his aspects is a fierce and unapologetic destroyer. They are both often depicted crushing ignorance and/or fear beneath their feet. They are both reminders of ego-death and executioners. I've felt drawn to Chemchok as a protecter. When they are done with you, only the purest essence remains...something like that. His status as your ally is important, the way I understand it. A nice representation: Chemchok
Another one with basic summary: Chemchok Heruka
My first experience with spice was all about death, and rebirth and wheels within wheels of creation and destruction. But it was very rhythmic, this transmission of knowledge: "You see, This is how it is." And reading other experiences here reminds me it was somewhat of a dance in feeling.

"In destruction, truly nothing is destroyed but the illusion of individuality."

"...Shiva stands for letting go of everything in the world of forms."

So here is a great link to info about Shiva and maybe you will see what I mean.
sanatan society: Hindu Gods and Goddesses


This is not a comprehensive collection of information on a topic about which I know very little. EDIT: Apparently, Chemchok's much more common name is Mahakala: protector of dharma

"Shiva Nataraj's dance represents both the destruction and the creation of the universe and reveals the cycles of death, birth, and rebirth."

I don't have any experience with Hindu gods, but I did read the article you linked. It makes a lot of sense.

In Buddhism, there is also the birth/life/death/rebirth cycle. Ultimately we are all on the path towards rebirth, and there's no escaping it. Death is a normal part of life and should be respected but not feared.

Of course this is all in my opinion, and it's easier said than done. I find that meditation helps me realize these things.

Yes, I think Buddha refined a lot about Hinduism, which was already an ancient religion by the time he was born.
The importance of "Gods," "Goddesses," and Archetypes has been underscored for me. I think, ultimately, that they too are of the worlds of form and it is pointless to fixate on them; but their presence or energy is real. This is not mumbo-jumbo. We are all apart of it and there is no way out...except through.

Thanks for reading and chiming in!

I just watched this video by Alan Watts - on how our molecules are constantly changing, and how we can't possibly be the same person in two different times.

Like how a flowing stream resembles a stream at all times due to the way the rocks and other materials are aligned - but it's just water bending into that shape, not the same water at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDCGL9tRDEc

Thanks for the insight into the history

Namaste

After reading part of the Tibetan book of the dead last night I was stunned by how simple the concept seemed in comparison to my dogmatic upbringing.
Question: how and in what way have you actively applied the principles learned from this? Either through meditation or.. Encounters with other people?

I would absolutely love to learn with you, this seems of utmost importance right now, I'm a world lost in the shallow superficiality of ever changing ephemeral forms.

It would be nice to meditate to this on the spice with the clear intents of understanding the totality of consciousness, rather than aimlessly wandering space lol

This is exactly what I have been looking for it seems.

Not the rigid teaching part you warned of earlier, but that which points to the truth dogma and language can --at best-- point too. Not to understand, but to experience fully, so I may in some way help others free themselves from samsara

If you haven't already, you might want to give this thread on Ganesha a look.

Thanks for reading and responding.

I mentioned in my first experience report that I have had some experience with meditation before. I have never done any retreats, but have for periods of time meditated every day for 30 minutes to an hour - off and on over the last 15-17 years.

After my first breakthrough, here is how I have applied the principles:

1) I meditate every day now, without fail, sometimes twice a day. I have two small children and a very active/compulsive wife all living in a small house. Meditating is not always easy, but now I don't avoid it because the setting isn't perfect. I know how important it is because I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SUFFERING. Spice confirms the act of meditation for me. Last night was tough getting the kids to bed and I was completely exhausted. I still sat for 40 minutes at 11:30 pm which is way past my bedtime if I want to be sane at work. The urgency for me is very real on the one hand, but on the other I know I have eternity - so maybe I shouldn't be so hurried about it. I just take it seriously now.

2) Toward people. This is so important. While it was easier to live in the understanding of oneness for a time after the trip, it has become harder. I still have some lasting changes, though, toward how I treat people. I really take them in, not just physically, but as many of their qualities as my awareness can detect. There are still people, obviously, who are overly needy or dangerous, but I am not so quick to dismiss them as such. Also, it is apparent to me that you don't have to talk a bunch, or even have exposure to Buddhism to know very deep spiritual things. There are street bums in America with more development than people who go to church every Sunday, or experts on Hindu or Buddhism, etc. I am much more careful with the way I treat people. I was never a rude person per se, but I am certainly kinder now. Even people who are completely ignorant, selfish "losers" are my brothers and sisters on the path.

In summary, the way I apply the principles is to actively grow peace inside my heart. I have known such inner conflict; wasted years of my life, squandered relationships, said hurtful things - all because of my pain. The pain of things not going MY way. How absurd! I am turning up and out, my friends. I'm going home and never looking back. The best way I can practice peace and selflessness for my situation is to be present with my family unit and provide a good foundation for my children without wishing I could be elsewhere doing any number of other things. If pop culture thinks I'm a silly new-ager, they are welcome to that perception. It doesn't bother me any more. What do they have? A bunch of narcism and judgment. What will I have? PEACE. I can live with that. I'm trying. I'm striving. That is all one can do.

Thanks, Global. I will!

Also, you may be interested in reading this thread about Caesalpinia pulcherrima. That plant has been referenced as, "Shiva's plant".

~wap~

Wow man.. This is an incredible read, definitely the most inspiring thing I have read all year. This resonates very deeply with me. I wish there was some way I could help ease the whole situational pressure that sometimes threatens peace. Throughout the whole being labelled as an eastern philosophy/new-age nut, I've learned to love those who seem to label just to form a new collective and make someone feel miserable. I'll even agree with them if it means they won't be violent, inner turmoil is incomparable to that inner peace that neve changes.








Thank you for writing this. I can only imagine how demanding your situation must be currently, I'll try to be succing, I don't want to take up much of your time.

You hit the nail on the head. I confused the world of form with spirituality of so long I was utterly bemused. They go hand in hand, but they are both bits as pieces to the greater whole to which try both point. Yama, or whatever cause that suffering brought all of my previous programming to a pinnacle and then crushed it to pieces.
Have you read anything by Byron Katie?



Wow, just wow. Reading that feels like coming back off the spice and you have no idea how to word what happened, thank you dropthemillstone. This is also what I'm trying to do, fear had held us for far too long. We needed suffering until we realized it is not necessary. I'm going to just digest all this in silence for five minutes