CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
12NEXT
LSA and peppermint extract Options
 
AcaciaConfusedYah
#1 Posted : 6/11/2014 5:02:10 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Chemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1285
Joined: 22-Feb-2014
Last visit: 18-May-2022
Hi guys, I have read that adding peppermint oil to the extracted LSA is a great idea. After digging through the cabinets, I have found some "Pure Peppermint Extract." The ingredients are Alcohol(91%) and peppermint oil(9%). Do any of you guys have any experience with using this type of extract instead of peppermint oil? I'm assuming it should be fine?
Sometimes it's good for a change. Other times it isn't.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Cognitive Heart
#2 Posted : 6/11/2014 10:36:50 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2405

This is about as far it has gotten here. There is probably more info on other forums.

According to my knowledge, a few Nexians state that the present LSH within HBWR is more LSD-like than that of LSA. It could be possibly that LSA tends to be more earthly and sedating while LSH is more stimulating and colorful(?) Peppermint oil seems to activate LSH readily and offers a whole new level of experience if prepared correctly. Caution must be taken due to the powerful bronchial, vasoconstricting nature of this mixture. A CWE should be efficient enough. Let the finely ground up seed matter sit for 24 hours in a glass of ice cold, purified water in the fridge. Next, drop 1-2 drops of PMO into the water. Let sit again for another 18 hours. Filter, discard and drink slowly over a few hours. You could always further extract it with alcohol, base, separate etc.

I have no experience of this yet, but this is my procedure plan for this year and will report. If information is portrayed wrong, let me know. This is all based off what I've gathered.

--

Thumbs up
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
AcaciaConfusedYah
#3 Posted : 6/12/2014 11:28:15 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Chemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1285
Joined: 22-Feb-2014
Last visit: 18-May-2022
Thanks for the info!

I had my first LSA experience about 2 weeks ago. It was wonderful! My wife and I shared the experience together, which was very unique for us. Usually(with other entheogens), she sends me in as a scout to make sure that it is safe territory. If I have a good/beneficial time, then she'll usually want to play. I always have good times. She.... not so much. She only feels comfortable eating mushrooms if she has also had some MDMA(other wise she feels like "she wants to tear her face off"....) and she wasn't a huge fan of mescaline.... I WAS! Mesc may have jumped up to my number 1. However, my number 1 is a revolving door based on mood.


This was the first compound that I saw results that I had been hoping for, in my wife. She has some anxieties that had been burdening her since childhood. After the LSA, it happened. The light switch turned on, or off, or whatever it was supposed to do.... but she has been doing SO much better since then. I could write a few papers about my observations, but I'll save my fingers..... These things have special ways of finding the people who can benefit from them.



For method of extract, i used the PanoraMIX HBWR Extract. I have some more made up, with the peppermint oil added.

I'll report back after I can find the time to try the LSH
Sometimes it's good for a change. Other times it isn't.
 
benzyme
#4 Posted : 6/13/2014 6:04:21 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7409
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: the lab
afaik, only fresh HBWR seeds contain LSH, MG seeds do not. the so-called LSA-LSH conversion with peppermint oil is anecdotal and unsubstantiated, although some claim their experiences are enhanced by preparing what is essentially a minty LSA tea.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Cognitive Heart
#5 Posted : 6/13/2014 3:55:45 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
benzyme wrote:
afaik, only fresh HBWR seeds contain LSH, MG seeds do not. the so-called LSA-LSH conversion with peppermint oil is anecdotal and unsubstantiated, although some claim their experiences are enhanced by preparing what is essentially a minty LSA tea.


Thanks for the info! Yes, a minty, psychedelic tea nonetheless.

--

Thumbs up
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
Cognitive Heart
#6 Posted : 6/13/2014 6:40:06 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=56271

This thread breaks it down quite a bit.

--

Thumbs up
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
rellik
#7 Posted : 6/16/2014 5:26:55 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 279
Joined: 18-Jan-2008
Last visit: 16-Jun-2014
Location: tape hiss
When tripping an added flavor can really affect the trip. I bet it works since peppermint has an stimulating and grounding effect.
all of my posts are fictional. please interpret them as such.
 
newageshaman
#8 Posted : 6/16/2014 11:15:45 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 29
Joined: 05-Jun-2013
Last visit: 27-Mar-2015
Location: The Land Of OZ
I was under the impression that acetaldehyde,(which is cotained in peppermint and wine) potentiates the effects of LSA with some people theorising that it converts it to LSH? I am currently in the process of making up a 60 HBWR seed white wine in a 750ml bottle. rouhgly 5 to 6 seeds per 100ml glass of wine (i was supposed to use 75seeds but it turned out i only had sixty left) , the bonus to having the LSA seed extract in wine is that alcohol is a natural vasodilator so it should get rid of most of the vasconstriction.
 
Cognitive Heart
#9 Posted : 6/17/2014 3:02:56 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
newageshaman wrote:
I was under the impression that acetaldehyde,(which is cotained in peppermint and wine) potentiates the effects of LSA with some people theorising that it converts it to LSH? I am currently in the process of making up a 60 HBWR seed white wine in a 750ml bottle. rouhgly 5 to 6 seeds per 100ml glass of wine (i was supposed to use 75seeds but it turned out i only had sixty left) , the bonus to having the LSA seed extract in wine is that alcohol is a natural vasodilator so it should get rid of most of the vasconstriction.


This is good method! Be sure to use fresh seeds. Check out this page below.

Quote:
Therefore LST(Lysergic Acid Tetraethylamide) would result from the reaction of acetaldehyde and LSA; not LSH.


Quote:
the starting compound would need to be protonated (acid added) to do any sort of conversion


Also, peppermint is a kappa agonist which may explain some of the reported, enhanced effects. Cinnamon is another potential compound.


http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/8373102/We-Were-Wrong-About-LSH#.U5-hVPldUlS

Smile
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
newageshaman
#10 Posted : 6/17/2014 5:13:25 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 29
Joined: 05-Jun-2013
Last visit: 27-Mar-2015
Location: The Land Of OZ
Cognitive Heart wrote:

Quote:
Therefore LST(Lysergic Acid Tetraethylamide) would result from the reaction of acetaldehyde and LSA; not LSH.




http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/8373102/We-Were-Wrong-About-LSH#.U5-hVPldUlS

Did you read that thread all the way through? at the end they claim that the LST theory appears to be false? I personally wouldn't know either way though it is the only forum i could find with reference to LST.

My seeds arent all that potent thats why i've worked it to be roughly 5 to 6 seeds a glass, that way dosage can be gradually increased. 2 100ml glasses should be a modertae trip of about 10 to 12 seeds, and three i am hoping will end up being an extremely visionairy trip of about 18 seeds.
 
benzyme
#11 Posted : 6/17/2014 5:35:17 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7409
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: the lab
all purported conversion methods by people posting these lsa-pepperment oil "teks" are likely false, because they don't use conditions that would facilitate any conversion. it's chemistry, not magic.


other things to consider:
the LSH-LSA conversion rxn is reversible
acetaldehyde is a gas at room temp
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Cognitive Heart
#12 Posted : 6/17/2014 2:51:04 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
I'm not certain about any of it, really. Its all experimental with the research so far. I'll be giving this a go this year anyways if anything is of value with the combination. Won't know until done safely and correctly, even if there isn't any solid credibility, there are still Nexians that agree LSA+EO has a altered effect on the experience.

--

Thumbs up
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
downwardsfromzero
#13 Posted : 6/23/2014 2:53:48 AM

Boundary Condition

ModeratorChemical expert

Posts: 6764
Joined: 30-Aug-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: square root of minus one
LST is patently rubbish as there is no way to fit four ethyls onto an amide in this context. Pure nonsense. Impossible chemistry. In the vernacular, "a load of bollocks".




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
benzyme
#14 Posted : 6/23/2014 3:37:05 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7409
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: the lab
more rubbish than the LSH theory is, which is utter garbage. that pyrrole nitrogen isn't easily subbed. like I said, it's all dubious. figure the approach with the differing pKa's, then let's talk.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
downwardsfromzero
#15 Posted : 7/5/2014 5:38:13 AM

Boundary Condition

ModeratorChemical expert

Posts: 6764
Joined: 30-Aug-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: square root of minus one
benzyme wrote:
other things to consider:
the LSH-LSA conversion rxn is reversible
acetaldehyde is a gas at room temp

Reversible means that some LSH can form when LSA and acetaldehyde meet in solution. Exactly how much depends on the equilibrium constant w.r.t. conditions.

Acetaldehyde may be a gas (boiling point: 20.2 °C (68.4 °F; 293.3 K)), but it is soluble in aqueous ethanol.

Ergo, the wine recipe might be a good idea after all, if only to check how it compares to the peppermint tea. The thing about the relaxant properties of alcohol kind of resonates with the stomach-settling properties of peppermint. Perhaps crème de menthe is the way forward? Very happy

Has the pharmacology of LSH ever been reliably examined?

IMO, lysergamide-containing plants lend themselves rather more to a 'power plants'-type approach rather than obsessive focus on particular chemical compounds of apparently unreliable activity. Like with nutmeg, if you get it right, it works - but nobody knows for sure what the active component really is.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
flickedbic
#16 Posted : 7/21/2014 12:22:04 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 133
Joined: 30-Oct-2011
Last visit: 28-Sep-2021
I think there's a few actives in nutmeg as well as activators.

I have tried adducting convolvuaceae with cinnamon oil; and also acetaldehyde.

Both are good; if done right (no chlorine). My best experience with acetaldehyde involved an extraction in (very) cold brewed coffee (acetaldehyde source when no heat is used). I put some rum and a bit of mint oil in there. I remember hearing mint oil isn't all that great so I used multiple sources.

After filtering I whizzed it all up in my electronic vortex mixer for a while before drinking for a very entactogenic ( lovely electric body rushes), visually bright (a bit of sparkles emphasized rich pastels) and joyous experience.


The vortex mixer broke before my my Cinnamon essential oil tests.

These were performed with acidified VERY ColdWE; which I filtered and added ice and cinnamon oil and proceeded to shaking like mad before putting in the freezer for a while between shakings. Drink while it's cold.

Slugging it down cold resulted a very visual experience (comparad to straight CWE) which comes on in only 30 minutes; instead of waiting four times as long to come up. White rings bubble from the carpet and thin snake-like lines swim by creating rippling wakes. A very energetic experience.


keys to adduct formation
-Very low temperatures
-Strong agitation; vortex
-Acidification (Which I don't do with a straight CWE)
-The aldehyde (I'm thinking of further tests with Cuminaldehyde ATM)

This "adduct formation" is all theoretical. I know if things are even formed that the might fall back apart and even maybe form again.

All I know is the experiential changes and drastic alteration of onset time.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

Any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Without prejudice.
 
benzyme
#17 Posted : 7/21/2014 2:09:05 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7409
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: the lab
downwardsfromzero wrote:
benzyme wrote:
other things to consider:
the LSH-LSA conversion rxn is reversible
acetaldehyde is a gas at room temp

Reversible means that some LSH can form when LSA and acetaldehyde meet in solution. Exactly how much depends on the equilibrium constant w.r.t. conditions.

Acetaldehyde may be a gas (boiling point: 20.2 °C (68.4 °F; 293.3 K)), but it is soluble in aqueous ethanol.

Ergo, the wine recipe might be a good idea after all, if only to check how it compares to the peppermint tea. The thing about the relaxant properties of alcohol kind of resonates with the stomach-settling properties of peppermint. Perhaps crème de menthe is the way forward? Very happy


what evidence, if any, is there that peppermint solutions contain equimolar quantities of acetaldehyde to react with LSA?
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
lysurgeon
#18 Posted : 7/21/2014 5:23:13 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 88
Joined: 13-Nov-2009
Last visit: 30-Dec-2021
benzyme wrote:

other things to consider:
the LSH-LSA conversion rxn is reversible
acetaldehyde is a gas at room temp



This would explain the experimental results I have experienced.

When you mix one of these mint oils with LSA solution, there is at first substantial bubbling. It would make sense that the reaction is taking place

LSA + Aldehyde ---> LSA-Aldehyde adduct
LSA-Aldehyde Adduct + Water + Ambient Temperature ---> LSA(aq) + Aldehyde(g)

When aldehydes which are liquid at room temperature are used, no bubbling occurs. But there is substantial milking of the aqueous solution when that occurs, and can't really be remedied with additional ethanol.

These observations in my own experiments has lead me to believe that a chemical reaction is taking place, and that it reverts to its starting materials until sufficient aldehyde concentration is reached to keep the reaction at equilibrium.

This is coupled with the fact that LSA is a different trip altogether from LSA+peppermint oil, which is a different trip altogether from LSA+cinnamon oil (which is about twice as potent as LSA+peppermint), and this is a different trip from LSA+benzaldehyde, and this is a different trip from LSA+vanillin (which indeed is barely tripping at all...vanillin abolishes almost all activity from LSA).

The only way to really explain my observations, apart from "aldehyde adduct formation", is that vanillin is a 5HT-receptor antagonist, and that cinnamaldehyde is a 5HT-receptor agonist, and that the various short-chain aldehydes present in peppermint are collectively 5HT-receptor agonists and vasodilators.

I am willing to accept either theory, upon presentation of evidence.
 
benzyme
#19 Posted : 7/21/2014 7:30:17 PM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7409
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 25-May-2022
Location: the lab
without some spectra to show a conversion actually takes place, I'm not convinced a reaction actually occurs, but I don't discount
experiences nor the possibility some synergy occurs due to other pharmacological effects
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Cognitive Heart
#20 Posted : 7/21/2014 8:22:05 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1892
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Last visit: 22-Jul-2021
flickedbic wrote:
very entactogenic ( lovely electric body rushes), visually bright (a bit of sparkles emphasized rich pastels) and joyous experience.These were performed with acidified VERY ColdWE; which I filtered and added ice and cinnamon oil and proceeded to shaking like mad before putting in the freezer for a while between shakings. Drink while it's cold.Slugging it down cold resulted a very visual experience (comparad to straight CWE) which comes on in only 30 minutes; instead of waiting four times as long to come up. White rings bubble from the carpet and thin snake-like lines swim by creating rippling wakes. A very energetic experience.keys to adduct formation
-Very low temperatures
-Strong agitation; vortex
-Acidification (Which I don't do with a straight CWE)
-The aldehyde (I'm thinking of further tests with Cuminaldehyde ATM
All I know is the experiential changes and drastic alteration of onset time.


Those effects with EO are very relatable to my recent experiments with HBWR seeds, peppermint oil, ice cold distilled water, fridge storage, and shaking/stirring; all contained within a large jar.

The first extraction: 3 HBWR seeds and 3 drops of PO, effects came on much sooner with slight rippling effects and greater sense of color recognition, and this kind of 'enhanced awareness.' No acidification, though. Filtered once or twice.

Okay, but get this: my first extraction with said materials and aggressive shaking every 5 min for 30 min resulted in faster, more vibrant effects that diminished quickly while my 2nd extraction: I let sit for 24 hrs with slight stirring, added PO halfway through, led to the opposite in terms of visuals. They came on much, much later but were mild-moderate, colorful, ancient and slightly geometric. That was with 4 seeds and cannabis smoking.

Read here:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=57574

Clearly the materials required are the right materials, the preparation needs to be adjusted so. Further analysis would be very helpful.
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
12NEXT
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.056 seconds.