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So I snorted some freebase..... Options
 
Thrift
#1 Posted : 6/27/2009 3:57:21 PM

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I had been toying with the idea for most of the month and trying to research the
idea as much as possible. The information available to me was almost 50/50. Some
say its not effective at all and would require an MAOI just as an oral dose would.

Then again, I read a few reports that people did do this with effectiveness but most
these people used DMT HCL/FUM. Needless to say, there is a lot of conflicting information
about this floating around. Also, I did read a few reports saying some people had snorted
freebase. But once again some said it works, others said it was ineffective.

But they all had one thing right. It burns. It burns like nothing I have ever snorted
in my life. I have snorted quiet a few tryptamines, phenethylamines, etc. But nothing
has come close to the burn of DMT Freebase.

But that aside, it worked quiet effectively. I snorted roughly 75mg in one line and proceeded
to cuss myself out for about 5 minutes.

After about 10 minutes I definitely noticed something happening and the tell tail approach of
the experience as the electrostatic noise of hyperspace approaching and my vision began to shift.
The peak picked up quickly after being drawn out for a moment. Then evened out for a good 15-20minutes.

I was back at baseline by about 30-40minutes. My nose was still fucked up the next morning.


I really loved how gradual the experience was and how I felt like I could ease into the experience
and not feel like I was being shot out of a cannon. If it only didn't burn like the coals from hell itself.
 

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Spock's Brain
#2 Posted : 6/27/2009 5:11:18 PM

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That's very bold of you to subject yourself to that. probably worth it to figure out how to convert your freebase into a salt form then it wouldn't likely be as difficult to insulfate, and more likely to uptake easier into your nasals. I'd like to find out if you do this and how it works for you. Snorting freebase does seem sorta self torturing.
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Infundibulum
#3 Posted : 6/27/2009 6:31:44 PM

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Thrift wrote:
But that aside, it worked quiet effectively. I snorted roughly 75mg in one line and proceeded
to cuss myself out for about 5 minutes.

After about 10 minutes I definitely noticed something happening and the tell tail approach of
the experience as the electrostatic noise of hyperspace approaching and my vision began to shift.
The peak picked up quickly after being drawn out for a moment. Then evened out for a good 15-20minutes.

I was back at baseline by about 30-40minutes. My nose was still fucked up the next morning.

SWIM's glad you liked the experience. SWIM and other people who aren't me have found that snorting spice works but is neither impressive nor worth doing. They think that snorting is not as effective; 75mg freebase is more than usually needed for breakthrough smoking.

Did you actually breakthrough or was it just some fancy colours??

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
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WSaged
#4 Posted : 6/27/2009 7:17:11 PM

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Yea, snorting freebase is way more painful than it is powerful!!

I'm not into snorting anything (bad sinuses!!), so I'm not speaking from experience here, but I have been told about it by friends who have & read about it enough times to be pretty sure that freebase is extremely painful to snort.
Plus, most people need to snort around 150mg to get useful effects.
Freebase or Fumarate aside, That is a whole lotta DMT up the nose!!!

But if you want do do this, you should convert it to one of the salt forms before snorting it, like:
*) DMT-Fumarate, using Fumaric Acid. very easy & safe! (search for the FASA method)

*) Acitate, using Vinigar. This one is safe & easy too, but is more of a goo, so it's a bit of a pain to work with etc...

*) HCL, using Hydrochloric Acid. This can be considerably more dangerous, Hydrochloric Acid is a pretty strong acid. (there are some other acids I can't remember which exactly, that can also do this conversion).

It's still gonna burn, but it should be a little bit more comfortable & take a bit less too, as DMT-Fumarate weighs more than freebase-DMT. I forget by how much exactly, though you could probably find that info easily enough around the Nexus somewhere, or maybe over at Erowid.

Any of those salt versions of DMT are also easier to digest & easier on the body than freebase if not vaporizing it.
The salts will burn if you try to vaporize them, so freebase is necessary for that.
The DMT content in traditional Ayahuasca (usually from Chacruna, or Chaliponga leaves) is in the natural salt form that it is found as, in the plants.
It is easier to digest by the body as a salt & if you do eat freeebase, your stomach acids will turn it to DMT-HCL anyway & freebase in the stomach can be a fairly uncomfortable, to painful experience.
For me, eating freebase causes me to get farty like I ate 5 cans of refried beans or something!! Whew!

So why not save your stomach (& your nose:winkSmile the trouble & give it salts in the first place.


Cheers,

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
69ron
#5 Posted : 6/27/2009 7:52:26 PM

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Bufotenine (5-OH-DMT) is much less painful to snort and many times stronger. You can get visuals from as little as 50 mg. 100 mg is a heavy dose for most people. There’s a slight sting from it that’s short lived, and nothing at all approaching the pain from snorting DMT.

DMT doesn't lend itself well to being snorted, that's why no one does it regularly. Bufotenine on the other hand works like a charm that way.

5-MeO-DMT as a salt is also great for snorting. But as freebase, it also burns like hell. The only one of the three that doesn’t is bufotenine. The sting from it is hardly much at all and gone within a few minutes. It’s very nice when mixed with 3 Datura stramonium seeds (this effectively counteracts the bodily effects from it).
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Thrift
#6 Posted : 6/27/2009 8:21:39 PM

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Thank you for all the responses.

No, I didn't even come close to breaking through. It was strong enough I had to lay down for a minute and try to collect my thoughts but wasn't so strong that I could get up and stumble my way across the room to turn on the radio.

I wouldn't mind this method for light meditation but I don't think I'll ever do it again simply because of the burn. I may of course give it one more shot with a fumerate salt for a comparison.

I know how to convert my DMT to salts but I just simply didn't have any FUM/HCL on hand to do so.

69ron wrote:

5-MeO-DMT as a salt is also great for snorting. But as freebase, it also burns like hell. The only one of the three that doesn’t is bufotenine. The sting from it is hardly much at all and gone within a few minutes. It’s very nice when mixed with 3 Datura stramonium seeds (this effectively counteracts the bodily effects from it).


I REALLY do not like 5-meo-DMT. I experimented with this several times before and it really isn't my cup of tea. I don't recall knowing if it was freebase or in salt form but I do remember it burning pretty bad, but not as badly as DMT.

Your talk of 5-meo-DMT and Datura seems like it was be intensely unpleasant to me. But each to their own right? Smile
 
WSaged
#7 Posted : 6/27/2009 9:01:23 PM

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Thrift wrote:
I wouldn't mind this method for light meditation but I don't think I'll ever do it again simply because of the burn. I may of course give it one more shot with a fumerate salt for a comparison.


I'd be interested in hearing you opinion in the differences, both the pain issues with snorting & any difference in effects.
I assume the basic effects are the same, however I would also think that not having a bad sinus headache, mixed with an accute burning/stinging pain in your face, would lead to a much more enjoyable, or at least more beneficial experience.

Keep us posted!

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
bufoman
#8 Posted : 6/27/2009 9:27:29 PM

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DPT fumerate burns like hell as well.

Bufotenine freebase as 69ron said is only slightly discomfortable for a min or two. All of the early reports of toxic effects or the lack of effects from Bufotenine used salt forms. It would be interesting for someone to carefully check this possibility.

5-MeO freebase burns but is tolerable.

It is the unionized form and thus the freebase that is absorbed into the blood stream. When snorting a salt form of a drug (amine) it will reach an equilibrium with the unionized form in the nasal cavity. Thus as the unionized form is absorbed the equilibrium will reequilibriate shifting to the right (unionized) (This has to do with the pKA) so more can be absorbed. It is likely that the unionized freebase would be absorbed quicker although this may not necessarily be so as rates of absorption may be a limiting factor. SWIM is always wondering if a small amount of a vasodilator would aid in the rate of absorption.
 
69ron
#9 Posted : 6/28/2009 3:07:07 AM

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bufoman wrote:
DPT fumerate burns like hell as well.

Bufotenine freebase as 69ron said is only slightly discomfortable for a min or two. All of the early reports of toxic effects or the lack of effects from Bufotenine used salt forms. It would be interesting for someone to carefully check this possibility.


SWIM can test that out. He LOVES bufotenine. I think the main salt used was bufotenine oxalate. Oxalates are unhealthy. I’m not sure if SWIM wants to try bufotenine oxalate. Maybe he’ll try bufotenine

bufoman wrote:
5-MeO freebase burns but is tolerable.


DMT burns the worst, 5-MeO-DMT burns, but not as bad, and 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine) burns the least.

5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine are also very effective sublingually.

SWIM prefers sublingual use over snorting. It burns less, but it’s harder to perfect the art of sublingual use for some users. When using 5-MeO-DMT, he normally just uses Virola resin now. There’s no need to extract it. In the past he used 5-MeO-DMT extracted from chaliponga.

SWIM has tried 5-MeO-DMT as freebase and as the fumarate. The freebase burns quite a bit sublingually, but comes on faster and has more “mind fuck”. The fumarate comes on more slowly, doesn’t burn at all, is more euphoric, and has less “mind fuck”. SWIM finds the 5-MeO-DMT fumarate to be a superior experience to the freebase form. The delayed sublingual absorption rate makes the fumarate more pleasant.

SWIM has not tried using bufotenine much sublingually, he mostly smokes it. But when used sublingually as freebase, you can hardly feel it at all. There’s a very slight sting to it, that’s all. It’s not painful at all. With this method the experience is more mushroom like.

bufoman wrote:
It is the unionized form and thus the freebase that is absorbed into the blood stream. When snorting a salt form of a drug (amine) it will reach an equilibrium with the unionized form in the nasal cavity. Thus as the unionized form is absorbed the equilibrium will reequilibriate shifting to the right (unionized) (This has to do with the pKA) so more can be absorbed. It is likely that the unionized freebase would be absorbed quicker although this may not necessarily be so as rates of absorption may be a limiting factor.


Nearly all of the drugs SWIM has tried sublingually come on faster and stronger when taken as freebase. But this is NOT always better. As in the case with 5-MeO-DMT. SWIM finds the experience far more enjoyable if the absorption rate is slowed down. So for this compound he always prefers the salt.

bufoman wrote:
SWIM is always wondering if a small amount of a vasodilator would aid in the rate of absorption.


Yes. It needs to be a vasodilator that effects the nasal passages. Not all vasodilators do.

Lime (calcium hydroxide) also helps because it keeps the nasal passages alkaline and causes minor tissue damage to the flesh which causes the blood vessels to dilate. It’s not healthy to use lime for this purpose, but it’s very popular in certain parts of the world because it does aid the rate of absorption quite a bit.
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lorax
#10 Posted : 7/14/2009 3:54:00 PM

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what about some nosespray? its ususally much smoother on the membranes when the salt is already diluted in enough water to make it work in a spray. it would also be interesting trying this out with bufotenine and 5-meo-dmt.

does n,n-dmt work sublingually?
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69ron
#11 Posted : 7/14/2009 8:24:01 PM

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Yes DMT works sublingually, but its best to use it with calcium hydroxide.

You can make a sublingually active DMT mix by mixing 1 gram of Virola calophylla resin with 60 mg of calcium hydroxide. It doesn't burn like pure DMT does. 1 gram produces decent visuals but is a light trip. It’s quite nice. SWIM likes it much more than smoked DMT.
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Bancopuma
#12 Posted : 7/14/2009 10:58:05 PM

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Snorting freebase is very effective indeed. It is also very painful, and definitely detrimental to your mucus membranes, freebase DMT being quite a strong alkali.

I've only done it twice, and won't be doing it again. However, both times were amazing. It unfolds a bit more gently than smoking, lasts longer and seems easier to integrate, and is still intense...vocalising on one of the snorted freebase experiences was AMAZING. The mindscapes that unfolded were incredible. I also had a really nice afterglow the next day both times.

I also tried snorting DMT fumurate but it didn't do much at all.

It is a shame its so painful and risky for your membranes, or this would likely be my favourite way of taking DMT. Try to avoid snorting things though these days.
 
69ron
#13 Posted : 7/15/2009 6:52:05 PM

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Bancopuma wrote:
Snorting freebase is very effective indeed. It is also very painful, and definitely detrimental to your mucus membranes, freebase DMT being quite a strong alkali.


Try snorting DMT by using Virola calophylla resin like I mentioned above. There is no pain like there is from snorting the pure compound, and it’s very effective. Somehow the resin prevents it from being painful.
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Bancopuma
#14 Posted : 7/15/2009 9:28:15 PM

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Thanks for the tip Smile
 
trancepants
#15 Posted : 7/18/2009 7:00:49 AM

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twinkletoes
#16 Posted : 8/1/2009 2:12:46 AM

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I think that most people snorting dmt freebase are not using enough. To really get breakthrough quality, one must use about 115-125 mg. And with fumarate one would want to use about 200mg.

Swim dreamed about trying that a couple of times, once with 110 mg. and once w/120mg, and found it to be very effective. It was painful for a few moments, but once she got out there far enough, it no longer registered as pain. The biggest drawback was actually the congestion, and upon coming back to earth, swim couldn't breath through her nose... and it was runny, mucusy, and icky... not exactly the most comforting reintegration! The pain subsided within about an hour, but the congestion lasted for a whole day.

having said that, since swim has very delicate lungs, swim would definitely do this again.

Swim has also dreamed of snorting dmt fumarate, both in regular form and as a nasal spray, although intentionally not at a full breakthrough dose (although that will probably happen as some point... 200mg is whole lotta powder though... yikes.). It was still painful, but swim found that the pretty much subsided at the end of the journey rather than lasting for a whole day.

Swim hasn't quite found the right dilution for the nasal spray, and had disappointing results with this. the main problems that swim found were that the first couple of squirts don't squirt properly, so it is difficult to know exactly how much she was getting, and also, swim believes that much of the liquid went into her stomach. this could conceivably be remedied by hanging upside down while administering the substance, however when sprayed while upside down, the liquid tended to pour out a bit (rather than spray). The device that swim used (swim emptied out a nasal spray container meant for use with colds/congestion), had a measured spraying device that theoretically should behave the same way whether rightside up or upside down. However, the substance that was in the container before swim emptied it out was a thicker, almost gelatinous material. When it was used with the (thinner) liquid containing the dmt fumarate, the liquid didn't behave the same way, and tended to pour out unevenly, resulting in an excess of liquid in the nasal cavity.
 
69ron
#17 Posted : 8/1/2009 2:56:31 AM

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Another non-painful way to get a DMT experience similar to snorting it is to use Virola calophylla resin as a quid in the cheek. You mix about 1000 mg of resin with 60 mg of calcium hydroxide, and add a little water, just enough to make it sort of like clay. You roll it into a long capsule like shape and put it in your cheek. You slowly suck on it for 10-15 minutes. This traditional method works very well, with no pain at all. You get a decent trip this way too. I’ve seen a few documentaries where the natives were shown using this quid method, and NOT snorting it. They were using several grams of resin though.

This is now SWIM’s preferred way to use DMT. No MAOI is needed and the trip is very smooth. Plus no extraction is needed.

Note that the calcium hydroxide is REQUIRED or the DMT won't work well at all.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
twinkletoes
#18 Posted : 8/1/2009 5:57:03 PM

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Thanks, 69ron... that's very interesting...
 
twinkletoes
#19 Posted : 8/1/2009 6:34:25 PM

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69ron,

what potency of experience would one expect from 1g of resin in the quid method?
 
69ron
#20 Posted : 8/1/2009 7:07:01 PM

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It's a moderate trip, nothing too intense, enough for decent visuals, some closed eye visuals, and other psychedelic effects. It’s very pleasant. 1 gram is the most SWIM has used so far. Recently SWIM has not had the time to go into a deep psychedelic trip. He’s working nearly all the time now. 1 gram is just the right amount for SWIM right now. He can still function fine on 1 gram.

SWIM likes using Virola calophylla resin as a quid for the following reasons:

A - it doesn’t burn at all. Freebase DMT burns like HELL even when used sublingually.
B - SWIM has almost NO TIME to perform extractions right now and the resin can be used as is.
C - the duration of the trip is much longer than smoking DMT. SWIM doesn’t really much like the effects of smoked DMT. The trip is just too short and the peak hits too quickly. SWIM also doesn’t like the act of smoking.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
 
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