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"Psychotria 'NN' from seed (Psychotria horizontalis) Options
 
rahlii
#1 Posted : 3/3/2014 8:20:40 AM

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A few years back I received some Psychotria sp. seed labeled Psychotia. 'NN'..

I've had a little look into trying to ID it but have not yet figured it out. Does anyone know what this plant is?

I'd love to get some testing done on it to try and identify any alkaloids present.

rahlii attached the following image(s):
P. NN plant.JPG (76kb) downloaded 282 time(s).
P. NN flower.JPG (86kb) downloaded 276 time(s).
P. NN fruit.JPG (62kb) downloaded 276 time(s).
P. NN Hooked domatia.JPG (54kb) downloaded 277 time(s).
P. NN seed.JPG (40kb) downloaded 276 time(s).
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Ringworm
#2 Posted : 3/3/2014 6:11:55 PM

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I am no expert on the subject.....
but I tend to think Psychotria cross breed a lot easier than you'd think.

visually that plant looks like Psychotria alba. Yet it has Espina like Psychotria viridis.
My own plants did this, and most folks poo-poo'd them for being albas.

Either way your plant looks very healthy and happy, you should be proud!
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rahlii
#3 Posted : 3/3/2014 8:12:20 PM

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Hey Ringworm,

thanks for your reply. The original title had the seed vendor Xed out so that it couldn't be searched. It has now been removed leaving no information as to its origin. The seed came from Peru and was supplied by Kiwi-XXXX-caya. I suspect it is one of the many Psychotria spp. that is found in the Peruvian amazon and used in plant medicine.

I have 5 plants and they are beginning to set seed. They are very small plants and I doubt they would grow outside of fairly optimal tropical conditions. I would like to start propagating these plants and sharing them around but do not feel comfortable doing so until I know have a fair idea of the species and alkaloid profile. This is why I would like testing on this species.

I have attached a close up pic of the flowers for easier identification.



rahlii attached the following image(s):
P. NN flower close.JPG (75kb) downloaded 236 time(s).
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TheAwakening
#4 Posted : 3/4/2014 1:05:39 AM

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Very interesting thanks for sharing Rahlii! All these Psychotria cross-breeds fascinate me and have me wondering about all the possibilities. I've currently got some P. 'Nexus' plants, with more on the way by way of leaf cuttings and other smaller yet established plants. I have a small P. Viridis which is just about stunted, probably grows a few cm a year, it doesn't die back though. I know you said that it probably won't grow outside an optimal tropical climate but is it worse/as bad/better than P. Viridis in terms of climate? Also have you tried a brew?

A.
 
Hieronymous
#5 Posted : 3/4/2014 2:43:51 AM

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I'm not the best at Psychotria ID's but one thing that seems to be important is the stipules at each node. Most viridis tend to have slightly red coloured stipules and carths are normally green.

The flowers and the appearance of the petioles seem to be another indicator. Viridis tends to have almost no exposed petiole and the base of the leaf tends to go all the way to the stem where carths tend to have a bit of exposed petiole.

The inflorescences seem a bit larger than what I've seen on viridis grown in my area but that could be the result of climate or growing conditions.

I can see a few traits common to both viridis & carthagenensis, maybe it's a hybrid.

A closeup of the stipules could help with an ID. I'm certainly no expert but someone else may know.

 
rahlii
#6 Posted : 3/4/2014 9:58:38 AM

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Thanks for all the responses folks.

I have looked into this species a little and can be fairly confident that it is NOT the following -

P. viridis
P. Carth
P. alba

or a hybrid of these or any other Psychotria sp.

The only Psychotria hybrid I am aware of it the P. 'Nexus' which was purpose bred and is sterile so can not reproduce from seed, a trait of many hybrids.

These plants came from seed collected in the Peruvian jungle by Kiwi. they could be one of a hundred obscure Psychotrias spp. found in Peru. I suspect that it has a medicinal use or it would not have been collected by Kiwi.

I'm sure there are resources available to key out this plant and online Herbarium scanned vouchers to confirm ID's, but my attempts so far have failed.

If someone is keen on looking deep into Amazonian Psychotria, IDing this plant could be fun for them i guess.

I have not brewed this plant yet as I don't know what it is and do not want to risk poisoning myself. This is why I would like an positive ID backed by botanical resources and ideally some Alkaloid analysis before brewing or releasing this plant into the wider community.

If anyone can help with this, thanks in advance.
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rahlii
#7 Posted : 3/4/2014 9:29:24 PM

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I was just looking through the Psychotria complex workspace thread and come across my plant.

Here - https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=33658

endlessness wrote:
All of below copied from Trout's Notes on ayahuasca.
[size=7]
[u][size=7]Psychotria horizontalis
[size] Swartz


Common name: "tupamaqui"

Reported by Duke as being incorporated in ayahuasca (people, activity, chemistry and a reference to a citation other than Duke were not included with the claim)

Synonyms:


Myrstiphyllum horizontalis (Sw.) Millsp.
Uragoga horizontalis (Sw.) Kuntze


Reported occurrences:

Psychotria horizontalis has been reported from: Mexico (Jalisco, Nayarit), Cuba, Belize, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Venezuela.

Synonyms & distribution information was from MOBOT [http://mobot.mobot.org/W3T/Search/vast.html] (Includes numerous geo-coordinates of field collections)

P. horizontalis herbarium vouchers and collections can be found using the search engine at the NY Botanical Gardens:
http://sciweb.nybg.org/Science2/vii2.asp


Images:

Fruiting plant of horizontalis


Fruit close-up


Leaf of same:


[b]
Reported analysis:


Apparently no analysis has been reported.


Also found some images here - http://biogeodb.stri.si....hotria%20horizontalis,e

So it looks like she is Psychotria horizontalis, same flower and fruit and fits the rest of the description.

Looks like she is due for some lab analysis.
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Curb
#8 Posted : 9/15/2014 7:50:51 PM

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im wondering if you have bioassayed this plant at all yourself? or tried a side by side extraction. i would personally love to grow this if not for its beauty alone
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rahlii
#9 Posted : 9/15/2014 8:54:54 PM

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I did send some to be lab tested but it got lost in the post it seems. Some live leaf cuttings of both P. horizontalis and P. "Nexus" however did make it to the US, so once grown out will be sent to the lab for testing.
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pinkoyd
#10 Posted : 9/16/2014 3:33:06 AM

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You'll be happy to know rahlii that those leaves sprouted very well and specimens of both varieties are large enough to sacrifice some leaves for testing. The 'Nexus' clones are doing particularly well, as one of them is already over six inches tall and has put out two sets of fully adult-sized leaves. Horizontalis seems a bit slower but has come along very nicely.

I'm hoping to get samples to the lab before the end of the year.
I already asked Alice.

 
rahlii
#11 Posted : 9/16/2014 3:40:14 AM

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Great news pinkoyd. Looking forward to hear some good results of the plants pnce established. Thanks again for your help with these beautys. Love
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pinkoyd
#12 Posted : 9/17/2014 2:07:55 AM

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You're welcome! I live for this sort of thing.

I'm actually reluctant to send the samples because waiting for the results makes for a bunch of really long days... Surprised
I already asked Alice.

 
rahlii
#13 Posted : 9/17/2014 2:21:40 AM

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Might be best to grow the plants out to maturity to give them a fair chance to start producing at their full potential. I think strong broad spectrum redults are of more value then quick results. And given the lab wait times we are in no rush anyways.

Thanks again for your work.
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SnozzleBerry
#14 Posted : 9/17/2014 11:06:52 AM

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pinkoyd wrote:
You're welcome! I live for this sort of thing.

I'm actually reluctant to send the samples because waiting for the results makes for a bunch of really long days... Surprised

Razz

And I certainly don't help them pass by any faster.

Should have word on the last package shortly...really pressed with conference prep.

We'll put those leaves with some other fun stuff soon enough and I think we can get results by the end of the year...or close enough Wink
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