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extract from 8 year old mimosa, still possible / not expired? Options
 
willyw
#1 Posted : 1/28/2014 4:27:05 PM
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hello,

I've Removed: No talk of buying Pleas read the Attitude Page mimosa hostilis 7 or 8 years ago. I've read about it and i knew i wanted to experience it once in my life. Till today I didn't dare to do it, but the last weeks I've read about it a lot and really want to experience it now!

But my concern is, is my mimosa hostilis still good? Isn't it expiered.. I bought it like 7 or 8 years ago.. and kept it in a closed bucket in the kitchen cabinet.. it still looks the same, it hasn't rotten or something.. So can anyone please tell me if i can still use it or not? does anyone know the shelf life or expiration date of powdered mimosa hostilis? I don't want to waste money on buying the tools, etc to extract it and then find out it doesn't work anymore.. what do you guys think?

It still looks the same, and it's pure natural, my thoughts are like: why should the molecule's change or something.. so I Always thought it would be fine, but after talking to some friends they said it might be expiered. Now I'm asking you guys opinions.

so what i would like to know is:
- what does 8 years do to the mimosa?
- is the yield still the same, or should i expect much less?
- Do i maybe need a different extraction method?
- is it still safe?
- is the DMT still pure?

Hopefully someone can get me a quick answer! thanks in advance!
 

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3rdI
#2 Posted : 1/28/2014 4:44:33 PM

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hello, willyw, welcome to the NexusThumbs up

I think your bark will be fine but there's only 1 way to find out and when you do please report back.

you wont need to do anything differently just use something like cybs tek, yield could be the same as fresh which is between 1-2%+.

good luck
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bluesky
#3 Posted : 1/28/2014 5:21:30 PM

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After 8 years there is a risk that a lot of the DMT has been converted to DMT-N-oxide which is still psychoactive but not as strong as DMT. However I don't think you can extract from it because DMT-N-oxide is as far as I know not soluble in non polar solvents so normal extraction tecniques won't work. You could still make an ayahuasca from it though.

The only way to be sure wether there still is large amounts of DMT left is to do an extraction and see what yield you get.
 
Ez
#4 Posted : 1/28/2014 5:52:27 PM

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Depending on how it has been stored, you should be just fine.
(¯`'·.¸(♥)¸.·'´¯Pleased But suddenly you're ripped into being alive. And life is pain, and life is suffering, and life is horror, but my god you are alive and it is spectacular!
 
Parshvik Chintan
#5 Posted : 1/28/2014 5:57:31 PM

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if you can get ahold of some zinc dust, you can add that during the acid step, and that should reduce any dmt-oxide back into good ol' NN
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willyw
#6 Posted : 1/28/2014 7:27:54 PM
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hey,

Thanks for the fast replys!

If I extract I will post a report about it! Smile

But what is it now? is it oke or not? 2 say its not, 2 say it is..

Is there any way to find out before the extractation ?

And if its this DMT n oxide, what is this ZINC dust then? google doesn't show anything helpfull.. Can I just buy it in a normal shop?

 
Entheogenerator
#7 Posted : 1/28/2014 7:38:03 PM

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Yes, it is fine. I have heard of people extracting from >5 year-old MHRB and the potency had not depreciated even slightly. As long as it was not exposed to any extreme environmental conditions (excessive heat, airflow or light), it will be every bit as good as the day you bought it.

If you are really concerned about it, add zinc dust as Parshvik recommended. That way if any of the DMT did oxidize, it will be converted back to it's original state and extracted as usual. Don't use the "zinc" that is typically sold in the vitamin section of the pharmacy (zinc oxide, zinc citrate, etc.), it has to be straight zinc dust. You can buy it online very easily.
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willyw
#8 Posted : 1/29/2014 9:58:27 AM
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But isn't there anyway to find out before the extraction ?

And this zinc dust, does it make the extraction not dangerous? I read they also use it with fireworks.. so.. don't want to blow up my house Pleased lol

personally I preffer not to use it if its not needed, so when or how do I know if i need it yes or no?

and is "cybs tek" the best way for me to do it? or do you guys suggest something else? Smile

thanks in advance!
 
Entheogenerator
#9 Posted : 1/29/2014 10:15:55 AM

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willyw wrote:
But isn't there anyway to find out before the extraction ?

And this zinc dust, does it make the extraction not dangerous? I read they also use it with fireworks.. so.. don't want to blow up my house Pleased lol

personally I preffer not to use it if its not needed, so when or how do I know if i need it yes or no?

and is "cybs tek" the best way for me to do it? or do you guys suggest something else? Smile

thanks in advance!

Unless your bark has been subjected to one or more of the extreme environmental conditions I mentioned above, the DMT in it has most likely not oxidized.

That being said, there's really not a practical way to determine if the zinc reduction will be necessary ahead of time, unless you have access to the required materials for TLC or GC/MS analysis.

The only way that I could see that adding the zinc reduction step would be dangerous would be if you were working near an open flame, which would be extremely dangerous anyways since the nonpolar solvents used in extractions are highly flammable. Even then, I'm not even sure if zinc can be ignited when it is submerged in an aqueous solution (I would guess it cannot).

Cyb's teks are excellent. They are highly efficient, as well as relatively simple so they aren't too complicated for beginners.

You will know whether or not the zinc reduction is necessary when you follow an extraction tek to the letter and either yield DMT or don't. If you don't want to risk having to do a lot of extra work, there's really no reason not to add the zinc reduction step, just to be safe.
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an I" - Ringworm
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willyw
#10 Posted : 1/29/2014 2:18:18 PM
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thanks again for the fast reply!

i'll go for the zinc then Smile

The link that is shown above, what I read about it is that you convert DMT-n-oxide into nn-DMT. but I will inplant the convertion into the extraction itself, right?

So at what step will i put the zinc into the extraction, and what ammount of zinc?

Also I would like to know if i wan't to extract 100 gram of powder. which amounts should i change from the extraction? Should I just double everything? I guess not.
 
Parshvik Chintan
#11 Posted : 1/29/2014 7:12:34 PM

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dissolve the zinc dust in your acid, and carry on from there as normal.
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willyw
#12 Posted : 1/30/2014 11:27:19 AM
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Ok last question:

So how much ZINC should I add? I've read somewhere 1 gram of ZINC for every gram of DMT. can someone confirm this?

Also I read that the yield can be between 0,5% and 2,5%. is this true as well? so for every 50 grams of mimosa I should add 1,25 grams of ZINC just to be sure?
 
Orion
#13 Posted : 1/30/2014 4:20:25 PM

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We still need more conclusive evidence as to whether the starting products in these tests was actually DMT N-Oxide. Many people have found that what they thought was oily oxides will actually crystallize over time, and can still be extracted with nonpolar solvents or cleaned up with an A/B. Some of the more experienced chemists on the site have doubts as to whether zinc would reduce the oxides in the first place. Just thought I would throw that out there.
We really need someone with the proper equipment able to analyse a compound to perform the test and post the results.

As for the extraction I would just go for it, there's no other way to find out if it will extract other than the extraction itself. It would be handy if you posted exactly what you did and the results here, I'm sure a lot of us are eager to find out.
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arcologist
#14 Posted : 1/30/2014 5:10:26 PM

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You just need excess zinc, it doesn't really matter how much. If anything, it depends more on the volume of solution you have. You need the zinc to 'touch' all parts of the solution. If the zinc is a fine powder when you first add it, it should remain suspended in solution for 10-15 minutes before it coalesces and settles to the bottom. This usually does the trick. You can then stir the mixture to repeat the process. I only use a few grams at most per liter. It is not necessary to completely dissolve the zinc (though it won't hurt), most of the reaction occurs within an hour or so. After this point, the zinc can either be left in or filtered out. Be sure to leave the container uncovered (and away from flame), since hydrogen gas is released in the process.
 
Atlas_
#15 Posted : 1/30/2014 11:28:41 PM

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This is all great information as my cat too has kept most of his supply in bark form for the last year now. I don't mean to hi jack this thread but he was wondering if keeping it in the bark is the best way to go as far as preserving it for the next 10 years or so? And only doing small and thorough extractions when the time to travel feels right?
 
Entheogenerator
#16 Posted : 1/31/2014 8:40:47 AM

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Atlas_ wrote:
This is all great information as my cat too has kept most of his supply in bark form for the last year now. I don't mean to hi jack this thread but he was wondering if keeping it in the bark is the best way to go as far as preserving it for the next 10 years or so? And only doing small and thorough extractions when the time to travel feels right?

That's how I do it. I once had DMT freebase in a glass vial for about 3 years, and the potency and appearance were exactly the same as the day it was extracted. DMT salts are even more stable than the freebase but as long as it is in an airtight container and isn't exposed to excess light or heat, it probably wouldn't make much difference whether it's still in the bark or if it's DMT fumarate in a glass vial.

There's something reassuring about having a lifetime supply of MHRB on hand... Wink
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3rdI
#17 Posted : 1/31/2014 9:29:33 AM

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Atlas_ wrote:
This is all great information as my cat too has kept most of his supply in bark form for the last year now. I don't mean to hi jack this thread but he was wondering if keeping it in the bark is the best way to go as far as preserving it for the next 10 years or so? And only doing small and thorough extractions when the time to travel feels right?


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