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Acacia vs. Mimosa Options
 
ms_manic_minxx
#1 Posted : 1/8/2014 10:49:07 PM

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Hello everyone! Big grin

It's been a while... since I've been here and since I smoked. The spirit world has come knocking for me and I'm getting ready to dive back in...

I have no experience with Acacia, however. Would anyone with extensive experience with both Mimosa and Acacia care to describe the differences to me? Both technically (alkaloids present, yield percentages, any other hard data stuff) and the airy-fairy spiritual (how are the plant personalities different to you?).

There are also a few different kinds of Acacia... and I'd love to hear your takes on them!

I apologize if this thread has been done before (I did a cursory scan and didn't find quite what I wanted, but it's been so long since I've been present here or with anything else related to hyperspace). Also, I posted it here because I am interested in the Acacias specifically in regards to changa.

I have no immediate plans for brewing it, emphasis on immediate, time is always something I wish had more of. Confused

Thanks, everyone. Love
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Nathanial.Dread
#2 Posted : 1/9/2014 12:17:57 AM

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I'm not sure there is any concrete data about Acacia at the moment, it seems to be pretty variable.

In general though: acacia contains a number of alkaloids in addition to MHRB, including N-Methyltryptamine, which appears to be psychedelic in and of itself. From what I have heard, acacia extracts have a subtlety different feel to them.

I've never had the guts to try and procure MHRB, but I can say that acacia changa is quite acceptably visionary.

Acacia ayahuasca is a whole different ball of wax. No one seems to know what's going on there. Some people claim that just acacia brews are powerfully psychedelic, others claim that it's not.
I haven't tried that yet, mostly for fear of using something with such an inconsistent dose.

Hope that helps
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Entheogenerator
#3 Posted : 1/9/2014 3:33:01 AM

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I have only worked with mimosa tenuiflora (hostilis) and acacia confusa, so I can't speak to variances in different acacia species from experience. But from what I have read it seems that A. confusa is fairly consistent in alkaloid content, and has some of the highest levels of DMT, compared to many other acacias. From my understanding acacia confusa rootbark often contains about 1% DMT by weight, whereas MHRB has been reported as being up to and possibly greater than 2% DMT by weight. Acacia confusa rootbark (and that of many other acacias) often contain a significant amount N-Methyltryptamine (NMT), which is psychoactive though much less potent than DMT. The presence of a significant amount of NMT in the final product of an extraction typically causes the extract to have a gooey or waxy consistency. Some users prefer the DMT/NMT goo, while others will take a few extra steps to remove the NMT.

I cannot speak to a perceived difference in effects or "plant personalities", as I have only worked with purified DMT crystals from MHRB and ACRB. I would imagine that DMT/NMT goo extracted from ACRB would have different effects than purified DMT crystals due to the presence of NMT.

I have heard of people claiming that they notice a difference in effects between purified spice crystals from ACRB and purified spice crystals from MHRB, but I would credit this to the power of suggestion. I have not noticed any variance in effects between the two, and I highly doubt that anyone could tell the difference in a blind test.

You can find some information on different acacias and their alkaloid contents here and here, as well as some more information on DMT/NMT extracts from acacia confusa here. Smile

EDIT: I feel like I should add that in my experience, STB extractions have not worked with acacia confusa. Some people claim that they have had great results, but I tried relentlessly the first time I worked with A. confusa and did not see any positive results until I switched to A/B.

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nen888
#4 Posted : 1/9/2014 6:46:50 AM
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..Mimosa tenuiflora and Acacia confusa (as well as other acacias) are different in character, imo..
acacias can be 'gentler' (dosage dependant) but have more angles to them, probably due to the additional alkaloids..
particular as ayahuasca analogues the effects are usually seen as different..there are quite different secondary compounds in the two plants (different tannins, flavonoids etc) ..at higher doses the acacia can get very 'physical'..as well as visionary..

A. confusa also contains small amounts of beta-carbolines (some acacias have quite large amounts of harmalas, along with tryptamines) ..somewhere in the acacia info thread (which i can't even find now) i described such acacias as
'Nature's Changa'..
by this i meant that, because the presence of NMT and betacarbolines slow the onset of the DMT, and lead to a less intense but pleasant experience, with extra character, there is not so much a need to create changa from the crude extracts, unless one specifically wants caapi in the mix...
..the now fabled acacia confusa 'goo' is indeed preferred by many people to pure DMT...the onset is slower, and the afterglow lasts longer..

..A. confusa varies in the amount of NMT present, and therefore needs to be assessed according to source..

personally, i'm in the school who prefer their dmt with nmt..

from an estoric 'airy-fairy' p.o.v., they are different teachers, with different styles, even if they both contain dmt..
.
 
nen888
#5 Posted : 1/9/2014 7:24:50 AM
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..afternote: i believe the original changa came about due to an acacia extract refusing to solidify..

so certainly, as a delivery medium, acacia confusa 'goo' is ready to put onto some kind of herbal/leaf medium..i'm just saying it already has modified effects, so psychoactive/harmala leaf medium may not be necessary..

the difference between acacia and mimosa is hard to quantify...
the acacia just goes in different 'directions'...
 
magic9
#6 Posted : 1/9/2014 5:55:45 PM

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Entheogenerator wrote:
I have only worked with mimosa tenuiflora (hostilis) and acacia confusa, so I can't speak to variances in different acacia species from experience. But from what I have read it seems that A. confusa is fairly consistent in alkaloid content, and has some of the highest levels of DMT, compared to many other acacias. From my understanding acacia confusa rootbark often contains about 1% DMT by weight, whereas MHRB has been reported as being up to and possibly greater than 2% DMT by weight. Acacia confusa rootbark (and that of many other acacias) often contain a significant amount N-Methyltryptamine (NMT), which is psychoactive though much less potent than DMT. The presence of a significant amount of NMT in the final product of an extraction typically causes the extract to have a gooey or waxy consistency. Some users prefer the DMT/NMT goo, while others will take a few extra steps to remove the NMT.

I cannot speak to a perceived difference in effects or "plant personalities", as I have only worked with purified DMT crystals from MHRB and ACRB. I would imagine that DMT/NMT goo extracted from ACRB would have different effects than purified DMT crystals due to the presence of NMT.

I have heard of people claiming that they notice a difference in effects between purified spice crystals from ACRB and purified spice crystals from MHRB, but I would credit this to the power of suggestion. I have not noticed any variance in effects between the two, and I highly doubt that anyone could tell the difference in a blind test.

You can find some information on different acacias and their alkaloid contents here and here, as well as some more information on DMT/NMT extracts from acacia confusa here. Smile

EDIT: I feel like I should add that in my experience, STB extractions have not worked with acacia confusa. Some people claim that they have had great results, but I tried relentlessly the first time I worked with A. confusa and did not see any positive results until I switched to A/B.



All i do are STB's on ACRB and MHRB. no issues. Infact when i did my first ACRB STB on 200g and evap'd the naphtha in the garage with an air temp of 60F... i wound up with tons of white crystal with just the slightest hint of waxy NMT in there. was great stuff.
 
anon_003
#7 Posted : 1/9/2014 6:31:30 PM

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I am not one familiar with the hard data so I will leave that to other, more knowledgeable nexians.

As far as the extracts themselves go, I observed a couple of qualitative differences.

1- On your first pull or two you will most likely get fairly pure, clean white-ish xtals (depending on how much bark you use of course). Those will smoke more or less the same as Mimosa extract. However, you may find after the first pull or two, that you will end up with a sticky, malleable, peachy tan kind of xtal goo. This is THE BEST STUFF EVER FOR CHANGA WOWWWWW.

2- The NMT adds a subtle but unmistakable kind of spacial depth to the experience. Also, it has been my experience that acacia extracts soften colors, but also make them more vivid. VERY colorful most of the time.

3- The experience comes on a little slower and "gentler", although I don't know if that is saying much, lol. It also seems to last slightly longer.

4- It may be a totally subjective thing, but for whatever reason, I encounter more entities.


To extract I HIGHLY suggest checking out thick-lights tek and at least reading through it to pick up helpful tips, as extracting from acacia is quite a bit trickier than mimosa. It seems to have more fats/tannins and whatnot in my experience, be prepared to re-x later pulls, and be prepared for emulsions! AND DONT USE POWDERED BARK!!! Big mistake I made last time.

Hope this helps! Enjoy dat goo.
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DeDao
#8 Posted : 1/10/2014 12:43:11 AM

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I have extracted from Acacia Confusa Root Bark two times. Both times seem to provide 30% white fluffy crystals and 70% a yellow-brown goo. Both are equally active and potent. Personally, I prefer the crystals because it was easier to deal(move around/weigh/etc.) with.

20mg allowed me to completely leave my body. Usually passing through a familiar flower pattern/gaurdian; Then, finding myself being shown something by a different 'tour' guide each time.

I received ~1% yield. Mix of crystal and goo.
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starway6
#9 Posted : 1/10/2014 2:02:36 AM

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I havent brokenthrough on mimosa spice..but came close once.. and the experiance caught me off guard and felt anything but gentle at that dose ..it was quite a sub breakthrough ride...!
But on the other hand...lower doses of mimosa spice almost put me asleep its so relaxing..
Acacia confusa spice is quite powerfull in effect but not as insanely quick as the mimosa come up..
AC spice feels more gental.. and has made me feel so good!.. that it felt like it turned on my brains pleasure centers!
AC spice can cause great CEVs for shure.. but something keep me wanting to find out what breaking through on mimosa spice is like...
I find full spectrum AC goo more potent than AC crystals for some reason..
Mimosa is more popular but harder to get these days..AC is decent...
 
ms_manic_minxx
#10 Posted : 1/10/2014 5:25:31 AM

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Thank you, everyone, SO MUCH for your replies! This is precisely the info I was looking for.

I have a teeny bit of Mimosa, but was planning on hoarding that for oral.

It's been so long since I've sat down at the net and read about changa, Acacia was mostly unknown/untested and Acacia confucia was like a rumor that was too good to be true.

Well, I'm stoked the rumors turned out to be true! Cool Nice to hear that it is consistent and reliable.

It will probably be a while until my spaceship is ready to fly again... so to speak... but I will totally report back once I have some travels. Cool

All the acacia info & links are hugely appreciated. Love
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acacian
#11 Posted : 1/11/2014 6:54:16 AM

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i have only worked with mimosa hostilis a handful of times during earlier experimentation with dmt (before I started extracting and was just gifted extracts by friends), but have a lot more experience with acacia extracts and I have found that with exception of few special ones (eg phlebo or acuminata), a lot of the trees provide -through the addition of other alkaloids - a very unique headspace to accompany the dmt visions.. this can give quite a "rich" feeling to extracts and seems to give each tree its own character.

my experiences with mimosa were a little less personal than my acacia experiences, though this may have a lot to do with my personal growth since then. mostly they consisted of encounters with beings/presences that would show me simply magnificent ever transforming objects to help try and get my attention and draw me from my "ego".. I have actually seen a lot of people talk of mimosa saying things like "look at this" "or this" and this was a common and particularly notable occurrence during my experiences with mimosa... a presence concerned with beauty..that joyed in bestowing magnificence on its observer. i loved my experiences with mimosa

i guess I was still finding my feet with dmt at that point but my experiences over the last couple years which have been with various acacias (in particular a rarer alpine dwelling species who's fallen material can be gathered) have really grown into something quite different and much more personal. my experiences with acacia feel like somewhat of a "school" .. very specific teachings concerning my own nature, my actions and general personal guidance. my experiences with acacia have felt a little more nurturing of myself - somewhat less centered around the "entity" side of things now, and more concerned with very deep personal work which can be addressed through a wider variety of imagery (though always a presence that speaks to me)

I guess it is likely that this change in style of experience probably has a lot to do with how I have grown over the years, but I can't help but feel there are differen't personalities and realms between differen't trees - and the differing chemical profiles, to me, seem a physical way of manifesting these differences.. maybe certain realms need specific chemical combinations to be reached from the physical realm

..also I think nen's on the money in saying that the addition of harmalas isn't neccesarily required for "changa" with acacias... they can sort of be their own changa purely from their alkaloid profile. "natures changa" as I believe he coined
 
Rising Spirit
#12 Posted : 4/6/2014 1:20:49 PM

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I can't add anything of any technical value to this discussion, not being a chemist, but in terms of experience... I have traveled to the same hyper-spacial realty with both plants. As an allegory, picture yourself ascending to some lofty location, perhaps Manchu Picchu? Whether you travel up on a train, ride a burro or hike it on foot... the view is the same, the elevation is identical and the sky-high head space is the very same (ergo, a breakthrough is a breakthrough).

Obviously, there is far, far less differentiation in transit speed, than in my analogy. But I do agree with some of the others, acacia seems less explosively instantaneous than with mimosa, yet, of a slightly longer duration. It a very subtle but palpable shift in attention. The symmetries and similarities, however, far outweigh any perceived differences. They are both Spice, after all and the Spirit Molecule gifts the same Magikal awakening. Cool

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starway6
#13 Posted : 4/6/2014 5:04:59 PM

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Rising Spirit wrote:
I can't add anything of any technical value to this discussion, not being a chemist, but in terms of experience... I have traveled to the same hyper-spacial realty with both plants. As an allegory, picture yourself ascending to some lofty location, perhaps Manchu Picchu? Whether you travel up on a train, ride a burro or hike it on foot... the view is the same, the elevation is identical and the sky-high head space is the very same (ergo, a breakthrough is a breakthrough).

Obviously, there is far, far less differentiation in transit speed, than in my analogy. But I do agree with some of the others, acacia seems less explosively instantaneous than with mimosa, yet, of a slightly longer duration. It a very subtle but palpable shift in attention. The symmetries and similarities, however, far outweigh any perceived differences. They are both Spice, after all and the Spirit Molecule gifts the same Magikal awakening. Cool



Would booth acacia and mimosa to be equaly visual and colorfull in your opinion?
 
Rising Spirit
#14 Posted : 4/7/2014 12:30:48 AM

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starway6 wrote:
Would booth acacia and mimosa to be equaly visual and colorfull in your opinion?

Yes, in my experiences they are equally colorful and the visuals are pretty symmetrical to one another. That being said, there are certain psychedelic particulars which are quite characteristic of each of themselves, alone. But for myself, the differences in effect are far less distinct than say, between psilocybe cyanescens and psilocybe cubensus.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=28186

It's not anything so dramatically dissimilar, like comparing cannabis indica with cannabis sativa, which are each highly distinctive, despite the active ingredient being primarily tetrahydrocannabinol. Cool

Furthermore, I would imagine that chacruna and chalioponga have their unique characteristics, that mimosa and acacia do not (although, I haven't used either medicine yet). The same can be said for cappi in juxtaposition to rue, right?
https://mycotopia.net/to...chacruna-or-chaliponga/

William James wrote:
There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.

Perhaps the effects are equally subject to the distinctions in the specific individuals who imbibe these powerful entheogens, each through their own unique perceptual lens? Psychedelic experiences, like beauty itself, are in the eye of the beholder.

There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
 
Sabnock
#15 Posted : 4/7/2014 12:57:31 AM
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For me, i mainly work with the Ayahuasca route and so far i've noticed the Acacia seems different than the Mimosa. With Acacia Confusa, it seems gentler, i tend to have more visuals, it seems to have an electric blue/turquoise color to the visual background behind closed eyes, and it has a different headspace and bodily feel compared to Mimosa Hostilis.

With Mimosa Hostilis, it was always more bodily instead of visual, so i'd get more bodily sensations and rarely if ever had visuals, even in really high doses of really good inner root bark. And with Mimosa it was def. more intense/rough during the come up than it is with the Acacia.

In my experience, i much prefer the Mimosa in Ayahuasca compared to the Acacia, however that is not to say the Acacia sucks or anything because it's def. an awesome plant teacher on it's own, it's just i was used to Mimosa and then it went away so i had to switch to Acacia and comparing the two i'd say Mimosa is more to my liking but that the Acacia seems alot cleaner/clearer than Mimosa when it comes to headspace and visuals.

I've made Changa from both, and the Mimosa Changa i liked better too.
 
Algernop_Clone
#16 Posted : 6/3/2018 6:57:02 PM

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A bit of a bump, I suppose. However, since Acacia (Confusa and Acuminata from the looks of it) have been around for a while since this thread's inception, I'm wondering if any of you have had a chance to experience both enough to suggest one over the other, or for certain goals or experiences. Basically I had two questions.

First, for those who have had experiences with both (or if there is a community consensus I missed), which is preferred in which circumstances, and why?

Additionally for changa, if getting Acacia specifically for the gentler/different ride than Mimosa, would it make sense to extract Acacia goo rather than the purer crystals to preserve the differences?
 
TGO
#17 Posted : 6/3/2018 8:55:41 PM

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Algernop_Clone wrote:
A bit of a bump, I suppose. However, since Acacia (Confusa and Acuminata from the looks of it) have been around for a while since this thread's inception, I'm wondering if any of you have had a chance to experience both enough to suggest one over the other, or for certain goals or experiences. Basically I had two questions.

First, for those who have had experiences with both (or if there is a community consensus I missed), which is preferred in which circumstances, and why?

Additionally for changa, if getting Acacia specifically for the gentler/different ride than Mimosa, would it make sense to extract Acacia goo rather than the purer crystals to preserve the differences?


For Extracts:

It really doesn't matter, IMHO. DMT is DMT, no matter the source. The only major difference with Acacia species is that they tend to have higher percentages of other fats and alkaloids (mainly NMT, as high as 50% total alkaloid profile in some Acacia Confusa) mixed up with it. However, NMT can easily be removed with a mini A/B or other defatting methods. Please note that I've never extracted from Acuminata so I'm speaking generally about Acacia confusa, which I highly recommend. From what I've read, Acuminata can be a bit inconsistent in yield, depending on a variety of factors:

Northerner wrote:

Acuminata has a wildly varying alkaloid content. I have found it containing from 0.2% to 1.2% DMT. The very same trees. You might want to extract it first.
Also, it's incredibly oily and there's a good chance you don't want to consume all those oils. Extraction and backsalting would step around that. Even then you will get partial goo with Acuminata.


Impure Acacia (confusa) goo is tricky since it is hard to know what is in it exactly. I've had times where "x" amount of it caused nothing to happen while the same amount totally destroyed me the week before. This was the point in my explorations where I decided to start cleaning up acacia extracts more thoroughly. There was little to no consistency before but purifying made dosing easier and less hit and miss. It takes me a while to muster up the courage sometimes so when I would finally gather the confidence, only to have a misfire(s), it was really disappointing and frustrating, especially since I don't always have the time or energy to try again. So, now I always purify ACRB extracts for consistency.

DMT from Mimosa has been analyzed through GC-MS and LC-MS (red jungle goo, yellow oil, white crystals etc etc) and it was shown that the extracts contained 90% or more DMT. This shows that DMT can exist in many forms and still be relatively pure. Mimosa is very reliable albeit hard to come across in some parts of the world.

There has also been a lot of debate on whether or not people can "tell" what color/consistency of spice they are vaping based on the experience alone. The reports are anecdotal at best and while a few people claim they can "tell a difference", most can not (myself included). We need more double blind tests performed, though, before any solid conclusions can be made. The experience can vary wildly from trip to trip, even when using the same fluffy white pile each time. It is very strange.

For Brews:

I would not consider acacia any gentler than mimosa, it can and will take you anywhere mimosa can. But again, it is a bit trickier to brew since the alkaloid content is quite variable. If drinking acacia brews, I'd recommend brewing more than what you plan to consume so you can re-dose if you are not where you want to be after the initial dose. It is good practice to brew a little extra anyway.

Mimosa is consistent for brewing as well. Many misfires happen to people because of improperly timed MAOI, not the brews themselves. I like to predose some harmalas, wait, then take more harmalas with the DMT brew.

The best way to know anything is to experiment with all of these plants and see what you think. I personally believe that the differences, if any, are too subtle for me to make any solid claims. There are so many factors that come in to play when ingesting powerful psychedelics that it is hard to pin point anything.

To me, DMT = DMT, each experience is unique and beautiful!

Everything else is just noise.

Good luck to you!

Smile
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Algernop_Clone
#18 Posted : 6/3/2018 9:15:56 PM

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Hey TGO, first of all thanks for the reply!

TGO wrote:
For Extracts:

It really doesn't matter, IMHO. DMT is DMT, no matter the source. The only major difference with Acacia species is that they tend to have higher percentages of other fats and alkaloids (mainly NMT, as high as 50% total alkaloid profile in some Acacia Confusa) mixed up with it.


So for changa I might as well flip a coin then. I would probably like to try both at some point to see if the NMT makes any difference to me, but Mimosa sounds a bit simpler then.

TGO wrote:
It takes me a while to muster up the courage sometimes so when I would finally gather the confidence, only to have a misfire(s), it was really disappointing and frustrating, especially since I don't always have the time or energy to try again. So, now I always purify ACRB extracts for consistency.

[snip]

I would not consider acacia any gentler than mimosa, it can and will take you anywhere mimosa can. But again, it is a bit trickier to brew since the alkaloid content is quite variable.


Thanks. That makes Mimosa seem a bit more appealing to me as a starting point.

TGO wrote:
Mimosa is consistent for brewing as well. Many misfires happen to people because of improperly timed MAOI, not the brews themselves. I like to predose some harmalas, wait, then take more harmalas with the DMT brew.


Good to know. At the moment I'm planning on starting with changa. I've read a few people predose with harmalas/MAOIs and then smoke the spice separately as well. But I'll keep that in mind if/when making some sort of tea.

TGO wrote:
To me, DMT = DMT, each experience is unique and beautiful!

Everything else is just noise.

Good luck to you!

Smile


Thanks again! That simplifies things a bit for me, so I appreciate it.
 
Jagube
#19 Posted : 6/4/2018 10:53:39 AM

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For tea, I like ACRB much better than MHRB. The latter has a dark, ominous feel to it, while ACRB is very bright, positive and euphoric. That said, it can still get hairy.

I can't say much on ACRB's variability as I've only brewed it once. I made a small batch of 250g and have had ~60 experiences with it so far.

Brewing just a little bit more than a single dose may not seem worth the effort when you can brew a much larger batch at once using little more time and energy. And the variability in potency is not a problem when you make a larger batch, as you can find your sweet spot in the first few sessions (starting low and working your way up) and use that for the remainder of the batch.
 
chocobeastie
#20 Posted : 6/9/2018 4:55:36 PM

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"Smoking Changa made from Mimosa would be like kissing your sister." - Nanobrain circa 2010.
 
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