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Extracting freebase dimethyltryptamine from the leaves of psychotria viridis. Options
 
Godsmacker
#1 Posted : 1/4/2014 12:17:25 AM

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I am disgusted and well beyond appalled at the current state of the dmt extracting community, my reason in particular being in the choice of precursor many chemists/cooks use in their teks: the root bark of mature and aged trees. In harvesting the root bark, the entire plant is destroyed. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of lush, huge, beautiful, mature, and all-around awesome trees, two in particular being acacia confusa and mimosa hostilis, are murdered every year because the psychedelic community has known them to be rich, cheap, and legal sources of dimethyltryptamine; which can be extracted, oftentimes to pharmaceutical-grade purity via a cheap and simple 'tek'. I have noticed that the DMT nexus is a breeding ground for these 'teks' that promote the destruction and desecration of these ancient and beautiful trees.
The alkaloid content of the leaves of psychotria viridis (AKA chacruna) accounts for .1%-1% of its total mass and is approximately 99% dimethyltryptamine. I have seen chacruna commonly used as an ayahuasca admixture, but not as a source for freebase dmt. I wish to design a tek, accompanied with pictures, meant specifically for chacruna. In doing so, I plan to locate a sizeable amount (~1 kilo) of chacruna for a series of small, varied extractions, in order to determine what steps, what materials, and what volumes of materials would be ideal for these leaves. In doing so I pray that instead of funding the wholesale slaughter of swaths of kilo hectares of these tremendous trees, the extraction community can find a longterm solution to their demand for FB DMT in the leaves of chacruna.
What i ask from you, the research community of the DMT nexus, is your advice and experience gained from working with chacruna, as well as the techniques you have used to extract pure FB DMT from this plant. I have only worked with ACRB and have never worked with chacruna leaves. It will be a long and winding road, but it will lead to the salvation of the plant kingdom.
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
endlessness
#2 Posted : 1/4/2014 1:00:00 AM

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So your plan as a solution to sustainability of ethnobotanicals and the problem of the `teks` around, is to make a tek for one other tropical climate plant? I think your solution is being contradictory, no?

To try to diversify plant sources and favor cultivation and local harvest as much as possible is the way to make it a sustainable endeavor. I don`t think chacruna is necessarily a sustainable source by itself, even if harvesting leafs (or small twigs or small secondary roots) is more sustainable... It would be good for people in other climates to be able to have access to local plants too, avoid shipping ecological etc costs.

Notice it all depends on how a plant is harvested. You can sustainably harvest roots if you keep main roots intact and cycle between plants, for people living in those areas. Mimosa hostilis common use in brazil (building fences and as wood for fire) is probably way more significant in terms of impact than ethnobotanical harvesting. Also Acacia confusa is considered an invasive species in hawaii. Not saying that you should necessarily use those plant sources, or that it`s recommended, but it`s a fact you can get them sustainably at least to a certain extent temporarily Smile

If you noticed, we do not allow talk of dry plant material suppliers here anymore, only of live plants and seeds, and we`re doing breakthrough analysis on different local plant materials that contain these molecules of interest. So I think we`re on the right track Pleased

I am definitely not saying you should not write a tek or that chacruna is not a good idea to extract.. The more information the better, and the more plants we can get these wanted tryptamines from, the better! Do post a `tek` if you want to. It will be reviewed by members and you will be given constructive criticism, and considering it`s good you can add it to the wiki.

Any tek should work well for leaf material too considering it contained equivalent amounts of alkaloids. It is possible (though not demonstrated AFAIK) that leaf material could have more fats that could come across in an extraction, and some plants may have more than others, but a recrystallization or FASA or any of the other available clean up methods should take care.
 
Godsmacker
#3 Posted : 1/4/2014 1:19:24 AM

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Endlessness, in the near future i will devise an extraction tek for Chacruna. I was wondering if anyone on the Nexus has had any experience with extracting chacruna, quality of the final product, etc. which I could use to further my research into a tek. I have wrote a hypothetical tek which has yet to be tested and i was wondering if you could review it if I PM'd you it.
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 1/4/2014 1:26:36 AM

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Sure I can review it if you want, though in any case most people here could take a look and offer good feedback to it too.

I have never done a full extraction from chacruna myself, just simple brews or soaks for analysis. I`m not sure if there are people here who have done good experimenting with chacruna full extraction, would be interesting to hear. In the end, the best would be if you would get some chacruna and extract from it and share the results, maybe we find that the chacruna commonly found yields very low, or that some clean up method works better than another depending on impurities present, etc... Any information whether it`s about good or bad results, is valuable. So if you do experiments, please do share Smile
 
dreamer042
#5 Posted : 1/4/2014 2:03:06 AM

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A standard a/b with naphtha on chacruna yielded a yellow oil that was quite potent and enjoyable once it was infused into plant material to make it workable. A limtek gave some nice fumerate xtals that were based and infused into plant material as well.

This tek should work quite good as well, though I don't have personal experience with it.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
Godsmacker
#6 Posted : 1/4/2014 5:06:19 AM

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dreamer042, was there a defat step in that A/B extraction you conducted? If so, how much nps was used per defat and how many defats were conducted? I ask because when I did an A/B on acrb, i got a highly active goo/oil and I believe I got the goo instead of xtals because I didn't do a defat(s) before I basified it.
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
dreamer042
#7 Posted : 1/4/2014 6:32:59 AM

Dreamoar

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Location: Rocky mountain high
It was years ago, IIRC I defatted 3 times with xylene, not a lot say maybe 25ml in each defat or so and made the pulls with naphtha. This was pretty early into my extracting career before I started using things like re-x and carb wash which would have probably gone a long way toward getting crystals.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
rahlii
#8 Posted : 1/4/2014 10:25:33 AM

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I have been growing Chacruna and extracting it with the Lextek since the tek was kindly developed by the good folk of the Nexus. Thanks Lex.

Here is the tek - https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Lextek

I have added a few steps due to my humid environment -

- Carbonate wash to stop the crystals becoming hydrosopic and absorbing water, &

- freeze precipitating the entire volume of shellite as evaporating with a fan tends to form dmt oxide

I will try adding the new salt tek as well.

I stress my plants by not watering them on a hot day prior to harvesting so they are extremely wilted. I give them a good water about an hour before collection. Collection of leaves is right on dusk. Do not harvest when it is cool and raining as they plants have very low actives and it is a complete waste of time and leaves.

I routinely get 1% white crystals of DMT. But this is home grown in the sun, stressed, sung to and harvested on dusk Chacruna so it might weigh in more then the stuff available via airfreight.

I hope this information goes some way to saving the plant kingdom.

Edit- I have also started extracting in glass to reduce the level of contaminants crossing into the final produce.
From where is the noise?
 
3rdI
#9 Posted : 1/4/2014 10:43:10 AM

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I extracted some Chacruna and got a nice pile of fluffy magic

I don't remember the yield but I used the salt tek with no defats.
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
nen888
#10 Posted : 1/4/2014 11:34:11 AM
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..Gobsmacker,i think the emphasis on root bark is unnecessary, and not taking the plant into consideration..
branches and stems still have reasonable quantities..

as endlessness says the emphasis of the nexus now is on growing plants as sources..

while Mimosa hostilis can usually reshoot after root bark is taken, Acacias are killed outright by touching the root bark..
while Acacia confusa may be a weed in Hawaii, it takes quite a few years for a large tree to grow...so root bark harvesting is not longterm sustainable on any large scale..once people are plantation growing they will not want to go for the roots..

..i have seen yellow oil similar to dreamer042's description from Chacruna..many years ago..the effects were good..

 
jamie
#11 Posted : 1/4/2014 4:10:51 PM

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I have extracted chaliponga, phalaris and acacia phyllodes all using normal a/b teks and other makeshift teks. Never had any problems to be honest. I know some people here have been extracting psychotria for years.

Phalaris has been the most problematic to extract for me, but still it is pretty simple and salting a solvent gets around the problem of all the defats needed for leafy sources otherwise.

Having grown mimosa I can tell you it is one of the most resiliant plants I have seen. I think it is able to deal with rootbark harvests as long as you dont harvest the tap root or take over a certain % of the roots. Acacias in general seem a lot more sensitive. I can do anything to my mimosa tree and it just rebounds like it was nothing. I have had a lot more trouble with acacias.
Long live the unwoke.
 
Godsmacker
#12 Posted : 1/4/2014 4:56:38 PM

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rahlii wrote:
I have been growing Chacruna and extracting it with the Lextek since the tek was kindly developed by the good folk of the Nexus. Thanks Lex.

Here is the tek - https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Lextek

I have added a few steps due to my humid environment -

- Carbonate wash to stop the crystals becoming hydrosopic and absorbing water, &

- freeze precipitating the entire volume of shellite as evaporating with a fan tends to form dmt oxide

I will try adding the new salt tek as well.

I stress my plants by not watering them on a hot day prior to harvesting so they are extremely wilted. I give them a good water about an hour before collection. Collection of leaves is right on dusk. Do not harvest when it is cool and raining as they plants have very low actives and it is a complete waste of time and leaves.

I routinely get 1% white crystals of DMT. But this is home grown in the sun, stressed, sung to and harvested on dusk Chacruna so it might weigh in more then the stuff available via airfreight.

I hope this information goes some way to saving the plant kingdom.

Edit- I have also started extracting in glass to reduce the level of contaminants crossing into the final produce.


Rahii, could you please pm the adaptations you made to the lextek in order to extract white fluff from chacruna in a very humid area as I live on a tropical island. Also, i am as well planning to extract, and harvest, from locally-growing chacrunas, and would appreciate some more advice on cultivating them when the alkaloid is ripest. Thank you for your advice!!!
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
rahlii
#13 Posted : 1/5/2014 12:34:54 AM

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Hey godsmacker,
I am happy to contribute what I have learnt from extracting DMT from Chacruna leaf over a number of years. This method was developed through the application of a number of teks developed by the nexus community. I have applied these teks to address the issues that I have experienced. I have not collaborated this information to date as I have currently seen very little demand for extracting from Chacruna leaf. I’m guessing this is because of the high variability in store brought materials and the majority of folks do not live in an environment where they can grow this plant to its full potential.

Given the current issues the entheogenic community has with sustainability of DMT source material it has been decided preferable that folks move toward cultivation of their own source materials. This path will reduce impacts on south American source plants and the reliance on internationally trafficking this material, which is currently being targeted for control.

Chacruna is a rainforest plant that loves high humidity environments. If you live in a tropical environment this species of plant is highly suitable to grow for the production of DMT. Plants should be grown in pots in a rich soil mixture including high grade potting mix, coco coir, course river sand and perlite. Eventually plants can be planted out in the ground once they are mature enough to thrive in a full sun location.

Plants should be harvested during the hot dry time of the year when they are stressed for water and wilted by the afternoon. Plants require water every morning and afternoon during this time of the year to remain actively growing. Relatively high humidity in the air prevents plants from dyeing even once wilted. They can survive wilted in this environment for over a week without water. Studies have found that DMT levels present within Chacruna leaf fluctuate throughout the day and night with alkaloids being highest at dawn and dusk and lowest at lunch time and midnight. This information has been taken from the following data –
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------From thirty-seven samples of P. viridis, collected in the morning on the same day from several locations throughout Brazil, the DMT concentrations were found to range from 0.00 to 17.65 milligram per gram (mg/g) of dried leaf. Most samples had a value of approximately 10mg/g DMT, and only one had undetectable amounts. It is possible that this specimen was not P. viridis, but another species of Psychotria.

Most remarkable were the results from the consecutive samples taken from the same plant at several different times throughout the day. The highest levels of DMT were found in those leaves that were collected at dawn (8.97mg/g) or before dusk (9.52 mg/g DMT). The leaves that had the least amount of DMT were those collected at midnight (5.57 mg/g), and another depression in alkaloid content appeared near 10:100 am (8.01 mg/g DMT) and subsequent values remained low throughout the hotter parts of the day. One could argue that these are simply variable values from different leaves, although special consideration was taken to include leaves at equivalent stages of development. It is also important to note that these quantitative results are in agreement with what has been observed over years of practical experience.

From Phytochemistry and Neuropharmacology of Ayahuasca, JC Callaway, 1999, in Ayahuasca by R Metzner

Experience has also shown the leaf harvested during periods of cool temperatures and high rainfall has very little alkaloid content. An extraction which was expected to yield 3g of DMT only produced enough material for 2 cones of changa when leaf was harvested during a period of high rainfall. Plants should be prepared for extraction by stressing during the day by not watering in the morning to induce wilting, then watered 1 hour before dusk. Leaves are then harvested at dusk and laid out under a fan to dry inside in the shade. This can take a few days depending on moisture content in the leaf and air temperature and humidity.

The lextek has been found to be very effective at extracting clean DMT crystal from Chacruna Leaf. The lextek was originally developed for the extraction of Acacia bark. According to a notice on the header of the tek it has since been deemed unsuitable for the extraction of this material. The original developer to the tek promoted its application for the extraction of DMT from chacruna (Psychotria viridis) leaf material, predicting the teks second salting stage as being highly effective at removing unwanted fats and oils present in the leaf material. This has been proven correct through numerous applications of the lextek for the extraction of DMT from Chacruna leaf material. Link to the lextek - https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Lextek

Given that this plant is grown in high humidity environments the home grower may come across a couple of issues with the tek as it currently stands. A number of teks developed by the DMT Nexus community have been applied to the lextek to improve safety and its application for extracting DMT from Chacruna leaf in high humidity environments. They are as follows –
- Replace plastic extraction vessel with glass to prevent plasticiser contamination
- Sodium carbonate wash to remove lye.
Lye contamination in high humidity environments results in the final product taking on the hydroscopic nature of the lye molecule. The consequence of this is that dmt crystals will absorb moisture from the air and melt if present outside of a freezer.
The sodium carbonate wash is undertaken as follows. Add 10gs of sodium carbonate to 100mls of distilled water. Gently wash the final combined shellite pulls to draw out the lye contamination. This will result in nice crystal that will not melt
- The lextek asks that the final shellite pulls are evaporated down to half its original volume. Experience has shown that in high humidity environment the action of a fan blowing across DMT containing shellite results in NN-DMT converting to DMT oxide. It is therefore recommended that this step is removed and that the final pulls are freeze precipitated in its entirety.

Home grown Chacruna leaf having undergone suitable treatment prior to harvest has consistently yielded around 1% NN-DMT when using this method.
New advancement have recently come to light that the addition of salt to the aquas lye solution during the extraction increases dmt yields. The salt tek will be included in future extractions. I’m thinking maybe 30g of salt in the aquas lye?? Advice on this would be appreciated.

Given that this project is intended to be an open collaboration of information on extracting Chacruna leaf I am interested in what the good folk of the Nexus think of these changes to the lextek and would love to discuss any additional improvements or refinements to the changes I have made.
Thanks godsmacked for getting this collaboration going. I am very interested to see the final Chacruna extraction tek and hope it makes improvements on where I’m currently at with this project.
From where is the noise?
 
Godsmacker
#14 Posted : 1/5/2014 3:14:55 AM

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Rahlii, thank you very much for your input! I have been getting the infamous acacia goo from my confusa and I have had my final pull (s) sitting in the freezer because I didn't want it to convert to goo once I removed the naphtha. I wonder if a sodium carbonate wash could keep the crystals stable out of the naphtha... Would sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) work in lieu of sodium carbonate?
Anyways, back to chacruna. Time is currently working against me as winter break ends and my spring semester begins. I may not have the time to work on a tek for many months but there will be one in the near future. If you could, I would appreciate it greatly if you could post a write-up of your standard extraction procedure for reference! When you conduct your tek, do you recrystallize? If so, how many times? Have you ever extracted from fresh chacruna? If so, how are the yields compared to dry chacruna? Do you grind your leaf up before you conduct an acid boil, or do you let the leaves soak as-is?

Again, I cannot thank you enough for your advice and input!
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
rahlii
#15 Posted : 1/6/2014 8:36:39 AM

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Not sure about using bicarbonate. Sodium carbonate is easy to get as washing soda at the supermarket. I don't know if it would work for your issue, you may have to give it a try.

I've never compared fresh and dry yields. You would also have to assume the dry weight of the fresh material meaning it would all have to come from the same plant so the moisture content in the leaves is all fairly similar.

I've also just finished break so have very little time to write a tek at present. It is also the wrong time for harvesting so I won't be undertaking any treks at present. I am keen though to discuss any improvements on what I have put forward. Once it's all developed through collaborative input to a point where it is a value to the nexus community I should have time to write something more significant.
From where is the noise?
 
rahlii
#16 Posted : 1/18/2014 10:12:40 AM

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Seems that the current thoughts on solvents are that xylene is much more efficient at pulling alkaloids from the basified plant aquas solution. Future efforts will be along the following line -

Add 30g of sodium chloride to the basified plant aquas solution to push the alkaloids into the solvent.

Use xylene for the initial pulls from the plant aquas solution. The xylene should be reusable in future extractions.

Salt out with 4% vinegar water.

rebasify and pull with hot shellite.

Sodium carbonate wash combined pulls.

freeze precipitate the entire combined shellite pulls.
From where is the noise?
 
Entheogenerator
#17 Posted : 1/18/2014 8:51:34 PM

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Godsmacker wrote:
Rahlii, thank you very much for your input! I have been getting the infamous acacia goo from my confusa and I have had my final pull (s) sitting in the freezer because I didn't want it to convert to goo once I removed the naphtha. I wonder if a sodium carbonate wash could keep the crystals stable out of the naphtha... Would sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) work in lieu of sodium carbonate?

Sodium bicarbonate is easily converted to sodium carbonate by baking in an oven at 350°-400° degrees for a few minutes.

The goo is most likely a mixture of NMT and DMT. A sodium carbonate wash will not remove NMT, but it will remove other contaminants so I definitely recommend it. There are several methods for removing NMT, recrystallization most likely being the easiest.

If all else fails, read this thread. Smile
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an I" - Ringworm
Attitude PageHealth & SafetyFAQKnown Substance InteractionsExtraction TeksThe Machine

 
Godsmacker
#18 Posted : 1/19/2014 6:13:02 PM

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rahlii wrote:
Seems that the current thoughts on solvents are that xylene is much more efficient at pulling alkaloids from the basified plant aquas solution. Future efforts will be along the following line -

Add 30g of sodium chloride to the basified plant aquas solution to push the alkaloids into the solvent.

Use xylene for the initial pulls from the plant aquas solution. The xylene should be reusable in future extractions.

Salt out with 4% vinegar water.

rebasify and pull with hot shellite.

Sodium carbonate wash combined pulls.

freeze precipitate the entire combined shellite pulls.


Thank you very much for the outline! When I get another chance to extract, I will use this process, for both acrb and chacruna. I think I would do a dry ice separation of DMT and NMT after sodium carbonate wash. Is this recommended, or should i just re-x and see what happens?
'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
Entheogenerator
#19 Posted : 1/19/2014 8:34:02 PM

Homo discens


Posts: 1827
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Last visit: 07-Aug-2020
Godsmacker wrote:
Thank you very much for the outline! When I get another chance to extract, I will use this process, for both acrb and chacruna. I think I would do a dry ice separation of DMT and NMT after sodium carbonate wash. Is this recommended, or should i just re-x and see what happens?

It seems like the dry ice method works very well for separating DMT and NMT, but I believe recrystallizing can remove NMT as well. Recrystallization seems like it would be the simpler method (with the added bonus of removing anything else that's in there), but I have not tried the dry ice precipitation yet so I am not entirely sure.

A sodium carbonate wash is really only necessary if you do not intend to recrystallize.
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an I" - Ringworm
Attitude PageHealth & SafetyFAQKnown Substance InteractionsExtraction TeksThe Machine

 
SKA
#20 Posted : 2/14/2014 1:31:56 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree Godsmacker.
I have been horrified to see the pictures of whole fields of felled Mimosa trees with their roots exposed.
I want no part of it. I feel ashamed I ever did take part in it, even if it was only a few times.

Apart from financial & legal reasons, not wanting to have a hand in Mimosa Hostilis' & Acacia Confusa's destruction
is the biggest reason I haven't bought any MHRB for extractions in the longest time. And nor do I plan to.


Godsmacker is right: Psychotria is a sustainable DMT source: You harvest it's leaves every once in a while, extract your spice and the plant will stay healthy, keep growing and keep blessing you with more and more spicey leaves over time. That is a symbiotic relationship with a DMT plant.

Our current abuse of Mimosa Hostilis and recently also Acacia Confusa is us predating these trees to extinction.
We're currently parasites in relation to these 2 spicey trees.
It's slowly wiping out these wonderfull trees and with it our precious sources of DMT. Not a very gratefull treatment to a plant that has given us so much wisdom, inspiration & liberation. We will pay a big price if we keep overindulging like this.


From now on we should leave Mimosa Hostilis and Acacia Confusa alone and focus wholly on sustainable DMT plants that have DMT in their foliage; Like Chacruna. I believe some Acacias also have very decent percentages of DMT in their phyllodes.
 
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