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Dendrobium nobile - A psychoactive Orchid with effects similar to Cannabis Options
 
sleepypelican
#21 Posted : 11/4/2013 5:50:49 AM

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I have been taking an extract of this plant and have noticed a lot of the same effects. There also seems to be a big effect on motivation as well, which leads me to believe it might have some opiate like effect as well.
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 

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Nicita
#22 Posted : 11/4/2013 8:14:05 AM

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Attention: possible side effects and careless dosing!

Good morning fellow Nexians,

I have not slept this night. I was distracted the whole night by almost any inner and outer stimulus. I heared the wind in the trees and other nightly noises outside, saw light from technical equipment in the room, and from streetlights and passing cars and was constantly engaged in my stream of conciousness and could not find a comfortable position. I was just not able to shut of my daily functioning and go over to sleep. Also I felt a little sick. Cold feet, a little headache and generally a feeling like a starting cold. But all in all I am not feeling to bad about it. I had some great ideas and insights into things that were on my mind lately. Maybe a bit of a "forced meditation" could be a valid description. Overall I am feeling a little exhausted now, but should be capable of managing my day.

On the other hand, I have to say that I was too careless and I also underestimated the orchid.
Here are the things that could have contributed to this nights' experience.
I had a little Cannabis after I was back to baseline and I also drank some mate
Both substances did by themselves never effect my ability to go to sleep before. Therefore there could be some interaction there.
Also I did a drastical increase in the dose. From "half a flower" to a pretty big part of the stem (1,7g fresh/ ~180mg dry). I never tested something before that had so little information about effects, sideeffects, neuronal background, dose... damn, even the active compound is unknown! With everything else, I was always more careful than necessary, always testing recommened small doses and always on the safe side. Now I wanted the test the full effects (I was excited testing something almost unknown) and also did not want to take any more material from my plant. Therefore I took a big leap from a known active dose, to maybe two or three times that much. I just did not expect this at all! Stupid! Lesson learned Embarrased Sashas protocol for such experiments is really practical and does a lot for harm reduction: start with a dose you would not expect effects from, then gradually increase until full effects are met or sideeffects are noticable.

I was also feeling not completely well the last few days, so illness symtoms could just be coincidental or in some kind triggered by the consumption.

Also I have a pretty unhealthy sleep rythm, staying up late, sleeping only very short and catching up on sleep later. But there are usually no problems going to sleep, when I'm in bed. So again, the consumption might just have triggered something.

All in all there were too many influences to decide where these effects came from.

To all of you who want to experiment: Be carefull! Try small doses. Only increase gradually. Don't mix with anything.

@ Mr.Peabody: I would be surprised about that. At least about THC. There have been after all chemical studies on this species. On the other hand, cannabinoids and their action in the body are still not very well understood and there is always the possibility of unknown compounds. My guess would be that there is some action on the endocannabinoid system, but not necessarily from cannabinoids. After all, we have evidence for a lot of different alkaloids and other compounds, bot none for any cannabinoids. Of cause, the reason might be that nobody looked yet.

@ Aftermath: Yes it did. Not as intense as on classic psychedelics, but way deeper than normal. I was able to fully focus on every instrument.

@sleepy: What kind of extract? Knowing this gives us information about the solubility of the active compound!

If someone has the interest, equipment and time, it would be very interesting to try to isolate compounds, bioassay for activity and feed the samples to a gas chromotograph!

Be safe!

Love and peace to the world!
 
sleepypelican
#23 Posted : 11/4/2013 8:36:52 AM

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this is what the bottle says

Dendrobium (Dendrobium nobile) (stem) (as DendroMAXâ„¢ Extract, concentrated for total Alkaloids content)

there are a few other things in there as well heres the whole list


Niacin (as nicotinic acid)

30mg

150%



PRE-WORKOUT & FAT BURNING SUPER BLEND (Proprietary Blend)

680mg





Caffeine (as caffeine anhydrous)



**



Dendrobium (Dendrobium nobile) (stem) (as DendroMAXâ„¢ Extract, concentrated for total Alkaloids content)



**



Sword bean (Canavalia gladiata) (seed)



**



Psoralea (Psoralea corylifolia) (seed)



**



Japanese sophora (Sophora japonica) (leaf) (Quercetin)



**



Red wine concentrate



**



Yohimbe (Pausinystalia yohimbe) (bark)



i know these supplements source of things can be sketchy as in the case of Methylhexanamine
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
Inner Paths
#24 Posted : 11/4/2013 8:43:12 AM

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I just wanted to personally thank you Nicita, for your research and bioassays into this new psychoactive orchid. It has certainly piqued my interest and I will be acquiring one of these beautiful plants really soon.

Thanks Thumbs up
"The love I've made is the shape of my space"
 
sleepypelican
#25 Posted : 11/4/2013 9:13:02 AM

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also i have noticed stimulating effects that come on later in the experience. I'm going to grab a live plant and try this myself, as the effects from the "extract" have been rather intriguing.

besides, i'm sure all this supplemnt talk is discouraged here...

and yes, thanks Nicita Pleased
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
Nicita
#26 Posted : 11/4/2013 9:11:29 PM

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No need to thank me, just doing this out of my own curiousity Pleased

Today in the afternoon I became sick, with headaches, cold arms and legs and nausea and maybe a little fever. I just pucked most of what little I ate today and feeling a bit better since. (enough to work with the laptop)
From the symptoms I am pretty sure that this is the cold I had small symptoms from maybe the last two weeks and perhaps even longer.

So here is my hypothesis what might have happened: The symptoms of a cold are caused by the immun system fighting the infektion. Now some of the compounds in the orchid have immunmodulatory effects. Maybe I ingested a lot of these compounds along with the psychoactive ones and they caused a strong reaction from the immun system fighting the infektion and I am currently exerpiencing a hyperactive immun system.

Any opinions on that?
 
steppa
#27 Posted : 11/22/2013 6:59:17 PM

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Any news on this? Does anybody else have recived his orchid? I'm still curious!
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
Mr.Peabody
#28 Posted : 11/22/2013 8:04:54 PM

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I received mine a week or two ago. Unfortunately, it only had a couple of flowers on it, and it doesn't look like more are coming any time soon.

The flowers I did use have been very nice. Very strong. Usually only a couple of small sections of the flower will give a strong buzz, with occasionally a nice body high. I have eased up on the dose a bit, and there doesn't seem to be a wall. This definitely is the most similar "legal alternative" I have come across, and I have tried quite a few.

It does have a bit of a stimulating effect, instead of the slowing effect of cannabis. I haven't been able to tell if it is very visual or not (cannabis is often quite visual for me). I am thinking of mixing a few other herbs in to try to mimic cannabis more. Right now I am thinking of hops, lotus, and maybe a few others for flavor and smokability. This definitely holds promise, and couldn't have come at a better time for me, as I may be working a job in the next year with random drug tests. Confused

The last thing to note, is it is similar to cannabis in the time it takes to hit (maybe five to ten minutes) and there is about a good hour of strong effects. After this is drops off pretty quick, but effects hang around for some time longer. So, unfortunately it does not last quite as long as cannabis, but all around, I am very happy with it so far. It has its own personality, but if this orchid and cannabis were people, they would look like siblings.

Any thing to offer on smoking the stem or leaves? I have only smoked the flowers, and would like to know how it compares to the other parts of the plant (though, I'll have my own experience to offer in this soon, as I am all out of flowers now).
Be an adult only when necessary.
 
steppa
#29 Posted : 11/26/2013 12:43:54 PM

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Sounds great! Thanks for the report. Did you notice any side effects?
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
Nicita
#30 Posted : 11/26/2013 1:30:19 PM

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Yes that would be interesting. Did you smoke in the evening? If so, did you sleep well?
Also the stems are very potent. Be carefull with those! Maybe start with no more than 50mg (dry) for a first test. As I mentioned before, 180mg was probably a bit too much. I have yet to try the leaves, but I see no reason why they should not be potent.

Also I am very interested in your tests with other herbs!
 
Mr.Peabody
#31 Posted : 11/26/2013 3:36:12 PM

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I have not noticed any side effects of a negative nature. I have not had any near bed time, but I have had some in the evening. I am a college student, and have class at 7am, so I usually can't get too far off my sleep schedule! It's the last couple of weeks before finals, so I am a bit busy, but I see plenty of tests coming in the near future.Drool

I really do enjoy this orchid!

Thanks for the heads up on the potency of the stem. I have a precise scale, so I will be careful. 50mg dry is almost no plant material at all! I have a bit of stem that's dry, and a few leaves that are also drying. If 180 mg is a heavy dose, this plant sure does go a long way.

Be an adult only when necessary.
 
endlessness
#32 Posted : 11/26/2013 5:12:13 PM

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Very interesting, thanks a lot to the OP and all contributing, very interesting novel stuff here Smile

Also thanks for the honest disclaimer and warnings regarding possible side effects etc.

Id be willing to test a sample of this plant if it helped giving more info.

Would anybody mind if I moved this thread to the collaborative research subforum?
 
sleepypelican
#33 Posted : 11/27/2013 12:43:38 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Very interesting, thanks a lot to the OP and all contributing, very interesting novel stuff here Smile

Also thanks for the honest disclaimer and warnings regarding possible side effects etc.

Id be willing to test a sample of this plant if it helped giving more info.

Would anybody mind if I moved this thread to the collaborative research subforum?


sounds good to me. I should have my plant here by friday and will post soon after.
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
Nicita
#34 Posted : 11/29/2013 10:51:16 AM

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I have no problem with moving this thread. While we are on research, how about we try to establish the solubility of the active compound?
Make extracts with water, several alcohols, ether, petrol products /limonene , basic acid base extraktion... and then bioassay for activity. If know about the solubility, we have more information to speculate what substance we deal with and we could also try to get a sample tested with a gas chromatograph.

I will definitly start collecting material for extraction, but that may take some time, since I don't want to take to much material that I could use for propagation.
 
DamiasOfEgypt
#35 Posted : 12/22/2013 5:26:38 PM

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Any new information anyone?
 
sleepypelican
#36 Posted : 12/23/2013 6:57:41 AM

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I'm having a lot of trouble finding this plant. Every one ive come across has been a variation on dendrobium nobile...
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
steppa
#37 Posted : 12/23/2013 8:18:54 AM

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Me too. I found Dendrobium nobile nikkou only.
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
sØrce
#38 Posted : 12/23/2013 8:25:48 AM

That was that and this is this.


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Wow, great stuff here, thanks for your work everyone.

If alkaloids are identifiable with names there is a really good chance that you can research each one for effects.

It seems with side effects there is the possibility that one alkaloid has a positive effect, while others could potentially be toxic. It may vary in parts of the plant as well, for evolutionary purposes. For example, I researched Pseudoacacia Robinia and found that the flowers were edible while the tree bark can kill you, and oddly, if the seeds and pods are roasted the toxins are destroyed. I didnt post my work though, because I didnt like the safety profile and found Mimosa Persian Silk tree to have a similar alkaloid profile but a better safety margin. Smoking persian silk flowers was most like cannabis out of anything i ever found in nature, but this seems more interesting. Theres a thread on Persian Silk (Albizia Julibrissin) on here.

Anyway the point i was getting around to making is that the plants use the alkaloids to perpetuate their survival- the flowers may not have as much toxins as the stems or leaves. That's because the plant needs the flowers to be insect-friendly to reproduce, it would seem to me. Maybe the alkaloids dont really affect insects idk but one thing can be said for sure, if animals can munch on the stems the plant probably won't really live. Long way of saying that I wouldnt be surprised if the flowers were safer than the stem, because i've seen it in the alkaloid profile of other plants.

From what we already know, action on the opioid receptors doesnt necessarily have to be morphine-like, in the case of Salvia is far different, and salvia has some peripheral affinity for cannabanoid receptors as well.

Quote:
Conclusions and implications:

The anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects of Salvinorin A are mediated by both κ-opioid and endocannabinoid systems and may partly explain the subjective symptoms reported by recreational users of S. divinorum.


Potential anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects of salvinorin A, the main active ingredient of Salvia divinorum, in rodents

The effects on immunity that you experienced could be explained by action at CB2 receptors, as other plants (echinacea augustifolia for one) have a profound effect on immunity through action at this receptor. Cannabis may somehow impair immunity overall while Echinacea seems to promote it. Both through activity at this receptor.

Emerging Role of the CB2 Cannabinoid Receptor in Immune Regulation and Therapeutic Prospects

yet unidentified constituents from Echinacea stimulate an IP3 receptor and phospholipase C mediation of cytosolic Ca2+ levels in non-immune mammalian cells. This pathway is distinct from that induced in immune associated cells via the CB2 receptor.

Echinacea is one of the few plants i know that has high levels of cannabanoids aside from cannabis. Most of the affinity is at CB2 but a small amount is at CB1. I was interested in Echinacea for awhile in terms of identifying the "constituents" lol so that i could isolate them somehow but I lost interest.

It would be really interesting to isolate the alkaloids individually and see what is active and what is potentially toxic. Of course research may indicate that without testing on ourselves as the latter is not safe. I extracted from echinacea and made a sparkly hash-like substance that got me pretty lit, but too much CB2 and i was getting body flushes, but really calming.

Rele rele gud werk. My cat says its time for bed and he really doesnt care about words or booklearnin'.

Does the orchid have a common name? I cant see going into the flower shop and asking for a plant in Latin, but if that's whats happening then I will.

I'm pretty sure sources of live plants can be shared, but not completely sure. That might help all of the researchers.

It's kind of limiting to just smoke the plant when there are so many alkaloids that could act in different ways, but I sure would.

Its worth mentioning that the supplement with Yohimbe would seemingly block the opiate-like effects of an opioid agonist. It might actually interfere with all the effects of said agonist. (Effects of yohimbine on the antinociceptive and place conditioning effects of opioid agonists in rodents) Yohimbe has alkaloids (yohimbine) that also are received at the opioid receptors, and is one plant whose alkaloids have been stated to be most like Kratom (in that it is a stimulant received at the opioid receptors. Kratom begins to act like a stimulant until it fills enough receptors to cause opioid-like activity) I can't really tell what that extract is meant for but I wouldnt take it really, caffeine and yohimbe are ok for workout energy but idk about all the other stuff. I'd check up on it a bit... Yohimbe is kinda dangerous for workouts because it has negative effects on heartrate, but smooth-muscle relaxation is the bonus, for workouts and erections both. Blood flow to muscle groups is important for workouts and most stimulants compromise it. I've been recently interested in l-higenamine, a nootropic, for its stimulating effects without compromising any bodily functions. It also relaxes smooth muscle. It'd be a good stimulant for working out or intercourse, and has replaced DMAA in energy stacks for its stimulation and fat-burning with vasodilation, that doesnt affect BP negatively. Good stuff. It's relatively inexpensive as well.

Stem alkaloids are usually concentrated in the skin under the bark. You may not need to smoke all the pulp, its mostly water and cellulose. In most plants, its in the inner skin if the bark is dry and probably in the whole stem skin in this case and not within the pulp. Which makes this sound like a pretty potent substance. I had to shave like a foot of persian silk bark to make a tea that was effective, at a diameter of like 1/2 inch. The flowers on the other hand were active with one hit from the pipe. Big grin

Great research with seemingly good prospects. If you can isolate the next kratom-like alkaloid, that's hot. Thumbs up
"The world is his, who can see through it's pretension...see it to be a lie, and you have already dealt it its final blow..." -Ralph W. Emerson


 
DamiasOfEgypt
#39 Posted : 12/28/2013 8:24:15 PM

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I don't want this thread to get off track. But, sOurce do you think you can give more info on your experience with Echinacea. I would like to hear more about your extraction process, your experience with dosage, things of that nature. Great information other than that.

The only common name I know of for this is noble dendrodium, which is not that far from it's latin name. So I don't know how helpful that will be.
 
sleepypelican
#40 Posted : 1/6/2014 6:39:14 AM

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interesting stuff sorce. The effects of the supplement are comparable to a mild opiate buzz, all the energy and none of the nod. However, when i take it with a dose of kratom, the effects are very much increased. Still having trouble finding this exact plant. I had ordered one, but it turned out to be a different varriety...
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
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