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Vaping with e-cig juice Options
 
sleapea
#1 Posted : 10/20/2013 6:40:06 PM
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Hi all,

So SWIM told me they dissolved their remaining extracts into their e-cigarette juice and highly recommends it.

I was told they dissolved about 0.5g in about 3mL of juice. They put the extract into a dry tank then filled it to 3mL with juice. The juice used was spearmint menthol with 0 nicotine. The tank used was a KangerTech T3S.

SWIM used a GVG for years until this and will not go back now. Said it was much easier, cleaner, smoother, and better tasting. No drips, leaks, waste, or burn whatsoever. One tank lasts a long time. I was told they tripped at least 10 times and has used less than 0.5mL of the juice. Takes about 3 or 4 nice hits for breakthroughs.

SWIM tells me that this is of the utmost importance and that I must let people know. Please do not disregard this valuable information. Give it a try! I would if I were SWIM...
 

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DebbyLovinLife
#2 Posted : 10/20/2013 8:24:04 PM
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This is really interesting to me as I use E-cigs as my replacement for cigarettes. I wondered if it would be an effective tool to use for the spice as well. Thank you for sharing this! Has anyone else tried this method and if so was it as effective for you as your other methods?

 
Global_Roaming
#3 Posted : 10/21/2013 1:33:41 AM

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I ordered a Vamo v2 and a small variety of tanks ages ago with the intention of trying this out. Still hasn't arrived, but I'll be sure to update with the results once it shows up.
/peace out brothers and sisters
 
The Traveler
#4 Posted : 10/21/2013 7:03:30 AM

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Sorry to be a bit sceptical here but quite a few others here have tried this path without much success (please use the search function to find those reports).

The main problem seems to be that e-cigs will only use very little of their cardridge when you take a pull. For a solid jouney you need around 25-30mg of DMT in a single dose and others report that with an e-cig you will not be able to pull that much in within a reasonable amount of time, so they keep pulling and pulling and never reaching anything above a starting dose of spice.

So I wonder if you ever had any real deep journey with this methodor or that you only had 'light' journeys (also with your GVG since you seem to compare this to the GVG). You mention 3 or 4 pulls is what it takes but I really doubt if that will be enough to get close to any real dose that way.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
sleapea
#5 Posted : 10/21/2013 2:23:20 PM
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You can doubt all you like but the only way to see for yourself is to try it. If you don't want to, that's cool too. I am just trying to pass on some very awesome information.

I know that .5g is a lot to experiment with but if you do it how I explained I guarantee good results. If .5g is not enough for the 3mL, add more. It dissolves easily in the juice. The whole preparation of the tank is so easy and it lasts for multiple sessions with multiple people.

The GVG is cool and all but this vape method is so much better in so many ways. I am not a fan of glass pipes and the GVG is not a 100% vape everytime. If you're not burning at the right temperature you're just smoking freebase.

I believe the Vamo v2's tank is a bottom to top tank, where it pulls the juice to the top from the bottom with longer wicks. Where the T3S burns at the bottom of the tank using much smaller wicks. It won't leak if its upside down or laid in any direction either. The T3S's wick is very sensitive on the first burn though. Just have to make sure the wick is wet with juice before the first burn. Test the wick before you commit it to spice and if the wick goes out or bad you can change it out easily and with very minimal loss of solution.

Quote:
So I wonder if you ever had any real deep journey with this methodor or that you only had 'light' journeys (also with your GVG since you seem to compare this to the GVG).

SWIM is insulted. Sad
SWIM has smoked spice for years and loved his GVG very much so, but has now found a new love.
 
Infundibulum
#6 Posted : 10/21/2013 6:22:07 PM

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Hi sleapea,

If you had a 0.5g/3ml or in other words 166mg/ml solution that means that you should have vaporised+ inhaled around 0.18ml of that stuff (for a 30mg dose). Do you think that this roughly equates to the amount of liquid you vaporised off the e-cig? I could be waaay wrong with the above calculations because I assumed that the carrier vaporises at the same rate as dmt.

Apologies for the negativity; it is not negativity but rather disbelief since quite a few members have tried the e-cig approach without results....I think that what worked in your case was the particularly concentrated solution. I personally see no reason for your approach not to work; 0.5g of spice, heated even with a weak element is bound to vaporise a fair amount of it for a breakthrough experience.


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Rifle
#7 Posted : 10/21/2013 6:22:34 PM

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.5g to 3mL is a relatively low potency compared to what others have done. The usual ratio [EDIT: I shouldn't say 'usual' since this is far from an established ROA, but the entries I've read from people espousing the benfits of it have all used a 1:2 ratio] of DMTfb to PG is 1:2. When adding that much DMTfb it can take it awhile to dissolve, but it eventually should. Even with such ratios it sounds like some people have trouble getting the dosages they want. Others don't though. I'm currently experimenting, but went with DMTfb dissolved in ethanol. Very easy to do a 1:1 ratio with that, but I ran into a problem with cartridge components getting "melted" from the ethanol, so I need to find a different clearomizer. I mainly did went with ethanol because I think PG will make me cough, but with the higher ratios possible w/ ethanol I'd think this ROA could work for most things except one-hit blast-offs, but for that there's The e-Machine: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=10770&p=3
She's real. She's got red lips.
 
Rifle
#8 Posted : 10/21/2013 6:54:06 PM

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Another issue I had with ethanol was it sounded like it was boiling on the coils and some hits tasted of pyrolyzed DMT, so I think the coil was too hot. There's a couple potential ways to deal with this, but I think I'll first try putting some PEG-400 into the solution.

Basically, the Nexus really could use a quality guide to this ROA. I plan to organize and write up what I've learned once I get a good setup going, but it certainly won't be exhaustive.
She's real. She's got red lips.
 
sleapea
#9 Posted : 10/21/2013 9:01:52 PM
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SWIM was very skeptical himself. I was pretty sure it wouldn't work or work as well as it does. SWIM did absolutely no calculations in ratio or any of that sort. He figured he would use the remaining DMT that was sitting around. Just so happened that it weighted out to be just under 0.5g.

Now here few reasons I believe it works so well with such a smaller dose.
- The spice is now part of a solution that has been designed for vaporizing.
- This vapor produced by the solution is a mist and not a smoke.
- The water based mist is absorbed by the lungs easier than a freebase smoke.
- No spice has been lost opposed to the residue left behind in a GVG.
- Everything is vaporized.
- The vapor works more efficiently with the lungs.

To Rifle.
I will only recommend the method SWIM uses. It's very easy.

All you need is...
1. Spice.
2. A scale.
3. A KangerTech T3S e-juice tank. I have two, one is for regular vaping.
4. A battery for the T3S. I recommend a battery with an adjustable voltage. Always start out on the lowest setting and work your way up. Higher settings will vaporize juice faster, which means more vapor for bigger hits. I keep a few different kinds of batteries.
5. Some extra wicks for the KangerTech T3S.
6. E-juice. The QuickNicJuice brand is the only one I am familiar with. They can be found at your local vape/smoke shop or online. There are many other brands out there I just don't know their names.

And its as easy as mix and serve after that.
 
Global_Roaming
#10 Posted : 10/21/2013 11:04:40 PM

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I haven't yet tried this method out, but I have done my homework and (thanks to some of the older threads on here, plus elsewhere) it seems that you need (1) a dual-element tank and/or at least a bottom element tank, (2) a delivery system that will provide a large enough volume of vapour, and (3) as highly a concentrated solution as possible (with a low VG content for better dissolving properties) - which would no doubt require some sort of warm water bath approach.

There was someone on here from a while back who swore by this method, and I can't see why it wouldn't work if you have the right equipment (I've ordered several different tanks including a pyrex bottom coil tank, with various resistance ratings, plus the Vamo V2 is adjustable on voltage and ohms). It might take a two or three successive tokes, but this isn't a problem with my CVG, so can't imagine why it would be an issue with a PVP.

Only time and practice will tell, but I'm willing to give it a go.
/peace out brothers and sisters
 
Rifle
#11 Posted : 10/23/2013 1:32:22 AM

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I'd avoid using heat to dissolve DMT into e-cig solution; if you get it too concentrated, solids could precipitate out once it returns to room temperature. Just give it some time (let it sit over night) and it should eventually dissolve. If you end up with some that won't dissolve I'd imagine adding a minimal amount of ethanol to the solution would do the trick and since it would be so diluted, I doubt it would cause any problems with breaking down rubber and plastic components.
She's real. She's got red lips.
 
The Traveler
#12 Posted : 10/23/2013 9:03:38 AM

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sleapea wrote:

SWIM is insulted. Sad

Please don't be insulted. On the DMT-Nexus we like to have reliable information and a sceptik call for more information is only meant to 'breed' a more reliable kind of information.

In the past we have had several new members who made claims that were hard to verify or unfortunately a bit too enthusiastic and too little tested. And with you making this thread as your first post with information that contradicted other people who tried about the same I think being sceptik was warranted.

Remember one thing: if this information holds up and is reliable, even after rigorous testing, then it will end up on the wiki as a source of good information.

So please do not feel insulted but be proud that your idea is looked at and thought about from different angles.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 
anrchy
#13 Posted : 10/23/2013 10:06:22 AM

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So OP, this is based off your math. You said 10 doses was 0.5ml out of 3ml.

You placed 500mg Dmt into 3ml of e-liquid.

That's 166mg Dmt per 1ml of liquid.

Which is 83mg Dmt per 0.5ml liquid.

At 10 doses that's 8.3 mg Dmt per dose and say average of 3 hits per dose so 2.7 mg Dmt per hit.

Either your estimate of how many ml you went through for 10 doses is incorrect or something else is wrong.

8.3mg dose is no where near a common size dose. Possibly your more sensitive to Dmt? Have you had anyone else try it out?
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Infundibulum
#14 Posted : 10/23/2013 10:41:24 AM

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anrchy wrote:
So OP, this is based off your math. You said 10 doses was 0.5ml out of 3ml.

You placed 500mg Dmt into 3ml of e-liquid.

That's 166mg Dmt per 1ml of liquid.

Which is 83mg Dmt per 0.5ml liquid.

At 10 doses that's 8.3 mg Dmt per dose and say average of 3 hits per dose so 2.7 mg Dmt per hit.

Either your estimate of how many ml you went through for 10 doses is incorrect or something else is wrong.

8.3mg dose is no where near a common size dose. Possibly your more sensitive to Dmt? Have you had anyone else try it out?

But these calculations assume that the e-liquid vaporises at the same rate as dmt does (which is possible but unlikely). It could be that when you vaporise, you deplete the e-liquid off dmt faster than you deplete the e-liquid itself.

If the latter is true, then the OP should get to a situation after may draws where there is still e-liquid but no dmt to vaporise.






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gilga_mesh
#15 Posted : 10/24/2013 12:07:52 PM

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Nice one, OP - I always thought about the idea of using e-cig and wondered if it would work.

I might give it a try and post results here.
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
 
anrchy
#16 Posted : 10/24/2013 6:58:44 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
anrchy wrote:
So OP, this is based off your math. You said 10 doses was 0.5ml out of 3ml.

You placed 500mg Dmt into 3ml of e-liquid.

That's 166mg Dmt per 1ml of liquid.

Which is 83mg Dmt per 0.5ml liquid.

At 10 doses that's 8.3 mg Dmt per dose and say average of 3 hits per dose so 2.7 mg Dmt per hit.

Either your estimate of how many ml you went through for 10 doses is incorrect or something else is wrong.

8.3mg dose is no where near a common size dose. Possibly your more sensitive to Dmt? Have you had anyone else try it out?

But these calculations assume that the e-liquid vaporises at the same rate as dmt does (which is possible but unlikely). It could be that when you vaporise, you deplete the e-liquid off dmt faster than you deplete the e-liquid itself.

If the latter is true, then the OP should get to a situation after may draws where there is still e-liquid but no dmt to vaporise.







The problem is that propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin both vaporize at lower temperatures than DMT does. My Chemistry isn't very good but I do know a little about e-cigs. Most cheaper brands of e-cigs use an atomizer that doesn't produce very much heat. When I placed some DMT into a cheap one that I have with propylene glycol it didn't reach high enough temperatures to properly vaporize the DMT yet all the propylene glycol was gone after several hits. Some DMT was vaporized but not enough to get very far past threshold.

Now I am not saying this wont work and I am assuming that OP is using a more expensive e-cig with an atomizer that can reach high enough temperatures to vaporize DMT. But if OP's numbers are correct it is impossible. So either more than .5ml of total liquid was consumed or OP is missing something else.

It could be that the DMT was not evenly distributed through out the liquid. It could be that DMT does not fully dissolve and eventually starts to seperate or that the lower half becomes more saturated.

I think the best way would be to find the saturation point of DMT to propylene glycol, mix that amount, and attempt vaporization right away. Doing the math you should be able to approximate the size of dose you are getting and compare that with how far you went during the experience.

BHO Wax can be used in some vaporizer sticks, so I dont see why this couldn't work besides the need to receive fairly large hits in a short amount of time.

I think finding a liquid that is safe to vaporize that DMT is actually soluble in is a much better idea in order to make this as efficient as say, a GVG.
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sleapea
#17 Posted : 10/24/2013 11:20:46 PM
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Believe it or not, I made this post to inform others of a method that I found to be far better than any SWIM has previously tried. I have posted instruction and listed exactly what items SWIM used.

I understand some of you might think that I am some kind of troll that wants you to waste your spice so I can go to sleep happy. I assure you that I am not.

Everyone smokes spice pretty much the same way with their GVG. SWIM has done the same for a few years but SWIM likes vaporizing over smoking. SWIM used to take 30-40mg bowls down in 2 or 3 hits in his GVG. I know that's not much for some of you pros out there, but I assure you that he is now getting the same effects in 4 small hits from the vaporizer. Pull 4 big hits straight to your lungs and I guarantee new record blastoffs.

Don't take my word for it. Try it yourselves. If this method doesn't seem like your sort of thing or if you think its not possible, don't try it.

SWIM actually did do a short hot water bath with his tank to help it dissolve. SWIM plugged both ends of the tank with his fingers and then held it under hot water for a couple minutes. I don't think it was necessary though, it would have dissolved over time. Also the juice used was 30% VG spearmint with menthol e-juice. The spice used had been dried and crushed for a few weeks.

Could someone please try this method and verify that this information is not bad? If you are using anything different please list it. I can only vouch for the exact items/method SWIM used.
 
sleapea
#18 Posted : 10/24/2013 11:59:56 PM
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Also, SWIM is still on the first tank of spice. He doesn't like to smoke it every night so if he comes up with a problem I will keep the post posted. SWIM has used up about .8 of the solution but has not kept count of how many times he has used it. He will from here on out.

When you use a colored juice, close to the end of the tank you will notice a darker tone in the juice. This does not seem to apply to the clear juices though. I am told this is because of the food coloring used. I am not sure yet how this will effect the spice. The juice used was clear but the spice has turned it a gold color. Initially there were some particles floating around in the solution that I am assuming was dust, but after .8ml vaporized it appears to be the same.

The solution is rolled around the tank to mix before vaporizing. So, I am not sure how the spice reacts inside the solution. The color is evenly distributed so I am assuming the spice is also, but I could be wrong. That's why SWIM still turns his tank to mix it.
 
anrchy
#19 Posted : 10/25/2013 12:16:52 AM

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Sleapea,

Please note that in this community you may be challenged. If this sort of thing offends you, this may not be the place for you. I am not saying that it cannot work. Just outlining certain details.

Like I said if you look at the my calculations something is happening that would be important to know. If your dmt to vg ratio per hit is even every time you are getting very little dmt per hit otherwise each hit you have received has a higher concentration in which point when you get down to a much lower amount of vg you shouldn't be vaporizing much dmt if any. Cause it won't have any. I would be curious to see what happens when you get down to 1ml of vg left.

Do you see what I'm saying? Also dmt cannot be "smoked" it is vaporized when using the gvg. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Also I personally have found, as many others have as well, that dosing in one hit rather than consecutive hits is much more efficient. But does not mean your method doesn't work. It most definitely does but achieving an even ratio of vg/pg to Dmt per hit has been difficult.

If you want a solid breakthrough dose in say 3 hit with an e cig, you would need approx 7mg of Dmt per hit. Do the math and tell me what you see.

I have slightly experimented with this technique so don't think that I am just shrugging this off without some experience. If you are gettung even dmt distribution per hit my next guess would be your either naturally sensitive to Dmt and/or you really have not had that deep of an experience. This is not a shot at you just my observation.
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Rifle
#20 Posted : 10/25/2013 1:14:50 AM

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Diffrent ROA for different folks. But yes, the numbers seem off. I'm personally going for much higher concentration of DMT in the juice. I already have some 80%/20% PG/ethanol that has DMT dissolved into it to the tune of ~ 0.5g/ml (EDIT: by this I mean the initial amounts; high concentrations of DMT result in a significantly greater final volume, but I don't want to measure due to the waste from the significant amount that would be left behind due to the high viscosity). Ran out of DMT Razz but freeze precip should be done tomorrow.

Anways, I only do sub-break through doses so some sort of e-cig setup should work great for me. But I also think I may be able to get it to work for larger dosing too (EDIT: but not one hit blast-offs; though it could be a good supplemental method for staying in orbit or getting there should the initial ROA fall short). There are a wide range of setups available for e-cigs with a wide range of different amounts of heat produced. DMT is extremely soluable in ethanol and ethanol is miscible with PG so the carrying capacity of an individual puff can be increased to some degree, but there might be a limit to how much you can add to the PG due to ethanol's low boiling point (I assume vaping ~ boiling?) and tendency to break down plastics and rubbers. But puff size can also be increased by using double coil clearomizers, etc. Seems like there's a lot to work with and for me the potential for the unmatched convenience and ease of use this ROA offers makes it a worthwhile goal to me. Haven't seen anything on the forum to make me think it's futile, though all the threads do seem to die right after they get to the point where they're like, "yeah, this is totally GOING to work" and no one is ever like "here is EXACTLY HOW to get it to work."

Should know more soon. Got a replacement for the ethanol-destroyed clearomizer today, but it was DOA and after some googling it seems the only wickless models have some serious quality control issues, so I will probably go tomorrow and pick up a Kanger T3s locally.
She's real. She's got red lips.
 
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