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How to store DMT for longest Options
 
RocketScientist
#1 Posted : 5/26/2009 12:46:26 AM
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SWIM has ~700g of bark. If SWIM extracts all the DMT (freebase) at once then it will likely decompose long before SWIM can finish smoking the last of it.

So; what is the absolute maximum shelf life of DMT, and what are the conditions for the absolute longest shelf life.

SWIM is prepared to invest in good airtight containers, converting to Fumarate, storing in a good freezer and needless to say pretty much anything else to stop his precious stash succumbing to the sands of time.

I am sorry if this has been discussed at great length before, but even after research SWIM wasn't able to find any conclusive answers.

Thanks in advance

 

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SWIMfriend
#2 Posted : 5/26/2009 1:18:30 AM

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Surely it should be converted to the fumarate salt. Then, why not vacuum seal, with a good desicant and a good oxygen adsorbent? In the thread adjacent to this one (about long term storage), I gave links to a cool and cheap vacuum sealer, and dessicants and oxygen adsorbents (but there are a lot of sites to be found).

One of our chemist posters (forget which right now, sorry) has recommended zinc dust--which would act to absorb oxygen.
 
RocketScientist
#3 Posted : 5/26/2009 1:27:32 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply

SWIM has zinc dust readily available and magnesium sulfate for the desiccant.

Is there any advantage to storing in a freezer?

What sort of storage times can SWIM expect?

Would the zinc dust and desiccant be mixed in the with crystals or just adjacent in a small filter paper fold, or what?

PS. How does the shelf life of DMT Fumarate compare to DMT in unprocessed MHRB (i.e. not extracted); SWIM doesn't mind extracting 'on demand' with small batches if it means the DMT in the root bark can be stored indefinitely?


 
SWIMfriend
#4 Posted : 5/26/2009 3:26:03 AM

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I'm the least expert person to ask such questions; furthermore, definitive answers may not even be known (especially about comparisons between bark and spice). But I do have good sense....a pure and stable crystalized molecule, stored in a decent vacuum, with dessicants and oxygen absorbents available to clean up the odd reactive molecule, should make for very long term storage (I'd guess, maybe....50 years?). Under those conditions, refridgeration probably wouldn't get you a great advantage over room temperature. Of course, it's assumed that it's kept in the dark.

I would definitely go with pure crystals rather than bark for long term storage. WHATEVER form the DMT is in the bark, it's almost certainly not a crystal. If it's intracellular (and I'm sure it is), there're all KINDS of muck available to degrade it...

I wouldn't mix zinc powder (especially) with spice crystals. Put the spice in non-airtight containers, and then put those containers, along with loose zinc and dessicant, in the final, air-tight container--and subject that final container to the vacuum. Keep it from being heated significantly above room temp, and keep it in the dark, and I challenge anyone to state definitively how long it would last, or that it would NOT last 50 years.

Gunpowder, and especially the explosives used in modern ammunition primers are highly reactive--yet they can last about 50 years in a brass tube sealed with a bullet.
 
DMT Entity
#5 Posted : 5/26/2009 12:26:38 PM

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If SWIM was going to try to store freebase DMT for a very long time, he would dissolve the freebase DMT into naphtha with a heat bath. He would then seal it in some kind of air tight jar with absolutely no air at the top. Then he would put aluminum foil around it to keep out light and place the jar in a cool environment.
 
Infundibulum
#6 Posted : 5/26/2009 1:55:48 PM

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RocketScientist wrote:
SWIM has ~700g of bark. If SWIM extracts all the DMT (freebase) at once then it will likely decompose long before SWIM can finish smoking the last of it.

So; what is the absolute maximum shelf life of DMT, and what are the conditions for the absolute longest shelf life.

SWIM is prepared to invest in good airtight containers, converting to Fumarate, storing in a good freezer and needless to say pretty much anything else to stop his precious stash succumbing to the sands of time.

I am sorry if this has been discussed at great length before, but even after research SWIM wasn't able to find any conclusive answers.

Thanks in advance


Anywhere cold, dark and dry is good for storing the spice.

Letting dmt in the bark and keeping the bark in the freezer is a good strategy (unlike what SWIMfriend said) for long term storage. It just takes loads of space.

Extracting it and storing in the freezer is also a good strategy. Either as a freebase or as its fumarate salt. The fumarate salt is thought to last longer, even though there is no conclusive evidence for that. SWIM always stores the freebase and it is good for at least after a year.

There are other people that have been very loose with their storage methods (i.e. store it at room temperature, not airtight container, presence of light) and it got worse by time. Nothing too extreme however, or nothing that a recrystallisation could not salvage.

Dissolving the freebase in naphtha and storing it that way makes not much sense.

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
Jurence
#7 Posted : 5/26/2009 2:14:44 PM

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I put my small jar of spice in the freezer and it got all wet and yellow after I let it thaw =_= so airtight container in my closet works for me- the naptha idea sounds best for long term storage (And i might be doing that)
Disclaimer:All first person statements in the post above are not true
 
WSaged
#8 Posted : 5/26/2009 5:50:33 PM

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Jurence wrote:
I put my small jar of spice in the freezer and it got all wet and yellow after I let it thaw =_= so airtight container in my closet works for me- the naptha idea sounds best for long term storage (And i might be doing that)


The container you put in the freezer was probably not air tight...or you opened it too soon.
If you keep your alkaloids in a container in the freezer, before you open it, you have to let it warm to room temperature!!
If not, oxygen will condense on the inside of the container & you will get wet, sticky stuff.

Same thing will happen if the container put into the freezer is not air tight.
Because the temp in the freezer fluctuates enough every time the door is opened, for the temp of the glass to change a bit & oxygen to start condensing on the inside over time.

This can happen pretty fast if you take the container out of the freezer & just open the lid right up.
It takes quite a bit more time to really mess things up, if the container you have siting in the freezer is not air tight.

Cold Storage Tip:
If your not totally sure if your storage container is air tight, before screwing on the lid, place a piece of plastic wrap over the mouth of the jar & use a rubber band around the jar to secure it. Make sure that the plastic wrap is sealed over the top & there are not any wrinkles in the plastic.
Then screw the lid of the jar on tightly over the plastic wrap.
Now trim off the excess plastic wrap from around the edges, but be careful not to cut it too close to where the rubber band meets the plastic wrap!! You could lose your seal if the plastic wrap slips under the rubber band.
This should sure up any small leaks enough to keep oxygen from condensing on the inside anymore!!


I keep my clear-to-white freebase DMT in the the back of my fridge, in an amber colored, air tight, glass vile.
That vile is then put into one of those false soda cans, as a hidey-hole.Wink
I have never noticed any degradation over time.

However, I used to keep a couple of 50mg doses weighed out & ready for use, in separate airtight glass viles, at room temp, in a small wooden treasure chest in my bedroom. I stopped doing that though because it was clearly losing potency the longer it would sit.

The Naptha storage idea seems completely unnecessary, not only that, but storing it in solvent, might actually aid in degrading the alkaloid even more over a long period of time. especially if that solvent is not extremely pure itself.
I don't know this for a fact or anything...but that just sounds like a bit of overkill there.
An airtight container in a cold environment, is about as stable as it's gonna get.


Is it necessary to store DMT-Fumarate in a cold environment too?
Or does the salt being more stable, make it unnecessary to do this?


WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
RocketScientist
#9 Posted : 6/1/2009 3:40:14 PM
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Thanks for the replies, my concerns have been cleared. SWIM's gonna try to think of a way to get a small vacuum using a small lab vac pump or a vacuum cleaner, but if its a scale of years than it's not really an issue.
 
WSaged
#10 Posted : 6/1/2009 4:49:20 PM

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There is a simple, small kitchen bag vacuum sealer that is sold at Target & other stores like that for way under $100.

I forget what it's called, but I think the one I'm talking about is made by Ziplock.
You buy these special bags with a little hookup for the pump, then put your stuff in the bag, ziplock it, attach the pump & turn it on for a few seconds. It sucks out any excess oxygen & makes an air tight seal around the goods inside.
If I remember correctly, the bags are reusable too, so it's not just a single use vacuum bag.

They are pretty cheap & they work great!! I don't have one myself, but my mom & my sister both use them in the kitchen all the time with total success.
I also know guy I get MJ from sometimes, who uses one of these exact same vacuum sealers to keep his stash fresh!! And it's always nice & fresh!

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SWIMfriend
#11 Posted : 6/1/2009 5:24:22 PM

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Dagger wrote:
"warrensaged" wrote:
I forget what it's called, but I think the one I'm talking about is made by Ziplock.

Pump and seal?


Yes. I posted a link to "Pump-N-Seal" in the other storage thread. It's ideal because you can use almost ANY container. It specializes in evacuating metal-lid canning jars, for example. It has claims to use "industrial level" vacuum pressure. The cost is about $30.
 
WSaged
#12 Posted : 6/1/2009 5:50:00 PM

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That's not the one I was thinking of, but it looks like pretty much the same thing.
Maybe even better (or at least more convenient), since you can use whatever jar or bag you want with it.

The one I was thinking of was the Ziplock Freezer System.
This one has the special bags, which might work better than using any container you choose, as they are specifically designed to go with this pump & be vacuum sealed.

The MJ guy I know uses the Reynolds Handi-Vac.
It is the one that has reusable bags.
However, while search engining these two vacuum sealers, I noticed a number of reports saying that the one made by Ziplock is the better of the two.

If anybody ends up ordering one of these three devices, let us know how it goes!!


WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
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