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Datura stramonium: a valuable admixture plant Options
 
69ron
#1 Posted : 5/9/2009 4:21:58 AM

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Datura stramonium seeds

Total alkaloid content: 0.1-0.7% tropane alkaloids. The average seed contains 0.3%.
Seed weight: approximately 8 mg.
Active alkaloids: hyoscyamine (approximately 80%), scopolamine (approximately 19%) with traces of atropine
Average alkaloid content per seed: approximately 25 micrograms of tropane alkaloids.
Typical safe dosage range: 1-10 seeds is preferred with 26 seeds being the absolute maximum safe dosage

Datura stramonium seeds have some very valuable uses in the safe dosage range. The seeds are usually preferred because their alkaloid content is not as variable as the rest of the plant and so safe effective doses can more easily be measured.

Relief Of Psychedelic Induced Nausea
Tests done by a few SWIMs have shown that 1-3 seeds can completely block the nausea caused by the following psychedelic drugs:

* Oral mescaline. For 1 SWIM, 3 seeds completely blocked the nausea of 300 mg mescaline.
* Oral bufotenine. SWIM found 2 seeds effectively blocked the nausea of 100 mg oral bufotenine. SWIM normally gets tons of nausea from 100 mg of oral bufotenine.
* Pharmahusca. For a few SWIMs, 1 seed blocked the nausea, but eventually there was a purge anyway. Details of this trip are found below in this thread.

Potentiation of Psychedelics
Tests done by a few SWIMs have shown 1-3 seeds can potentiate the effects of the following psychedelics:

* Bufotenine. It increases the visuals slightly, and makes it slightly stronger.
* LSA. It makes it more LSD-like and seems to improve the visuals and makes it almost twice as strong.
* Mescaline. It alters the experience somewhat making it sort of LSD-like and makes it about twice as strong. SWIM experiences extreme euphoria from this combination, but some other SWIM’s have not.
* Pharmahusca. It's said to make the visuals more LSD-like and make the trip a little more relaxed. Details of this trip are found below in this thread.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
smokeydaze
#2 Posted : 5/9/2009 4:23:38 AM

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I've recently come across the opportunity to source live plants. How/where/when do I get the seeds from them? I'm a bit skeptical about the plant material from all the reports.
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jamie
#3 Posted : 5/9/2009 4:27:45 AM

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thanks 69ron! Your posts on datura in the last few days inspired me to go out and get some seeds. I started germinating 8 seeds earlier today in my greenhouse..not sure of the strain though. The seeds were just labled Datura, devils trumpet variety..
 
MagikVenom
#4 Posted : 5/9/2009 6:53:14 AM

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If working with plant materal the safest thing to do is make a extract of the plant to establish a known uniformity of alkaloid content. And start low real low this plant can kill you. It has also been applied to the skin in a paste seems interesting enough but also a good way to die real fast if you over do it.
 
deedle-doo
#5 Posted : 5/9/2009 7:07:56 AM

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I don't think extracting datura is safe for the kitchen. If you did a really good job you'd have to weigh out like 50-100 micrograms for a dose.
 
MagikVenom
#6 Posted : 5/9/2009 7:10:51 AM

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* Oral mescaline. For 1 SWIM, 3 seeds completely blocked the nausea of 300 mg mescaline

did he give any more detail or post a report. I would like to here more about it.

Thanks

If you can extract dmt........

Alkloids levels vary greatly in plant material that is why it is necessary to extract in order to measure proper dose. Its best to leave this one alone or do your research take responsibility for your life. Thats what we do every day anyway seems simple enough.
 
69ron
#7 Posted : 5/9/2009 7:13:08 AM

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I think it's best to work with the seeds only. I found a lot of literature on the safe use of the seeds and very little out there about the use of other parts of the plant. The seeds are easier to measure by eye because the seeds are pretty uniform in size. I've recently measured many seeds from different vendors and found the average seed to be 8 mg. The largest is about 10 mg, and the smallest about 5 mg.

The seeds can contain up to a maximum of 0.7% alkaloids according to all the sources I've looked at. With 1 large seed weighing a maximum of 10 mg with a maximum of 0.7% alkaloids, that amounts to only 70 micrograms of tropane alkaloids for a super large super potent seed. You need more than 1500 micrograms before you start entering into a dangerous dosage range.

So 3 seeds would amount to a maximum of 210 micrograms of tropane alkaloids (mostly hyoscyamine), That's a completely safe dose.

I wouldn't bother with other parts of the plant. The alkaloid content is too inconsistent.

With flowers, leaves, etc., you're going to need an accurate scale. Also with the seeds, the hyoscyamine content is usually about 80% of the alkaloids and doesn't vary much at all, but in other parts of the plant the alkaloid makeup changes dramatically as the plant matures so there's no way of knowing how much hyoscyamine you're ingesting.
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69ron
#8 Posted : 5/9/2009 7:18:39 AM

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MagikVenom wrote:
* Oral mescaline. For 1 SWIM, 3 seeds completely blocked the nausea of 300 mg mescaline

did he give any more detail or post a report. I would like to here more about it.

Thanks


Here you go

redeyesmj wrote:
Swim tried this combo yesterday, He did not have the most euphoric experience of his life. He thanks it was euphoric like just mescaline, he says it compleatly took away the nausia. the seeds made his eyes blurry yesterday and they still are today and he still fills a bit off today. He does not know about combining these compunds as he felt the negative effects of the seeds. He still had a good day though 300mg of mescaline and three seeds got a little intense but not off his charts.



Judging by his reaction, 1 seed would probably have been better for him than 3. It seems like 3 was excessive. I think he's extra sensitive to the seeds.

That's from this thread:

The most euphoric experience of SWIMs life
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
burnt
#9 Posted : 5/9/2009 10:55:57 AM

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Yes it can't be stressed enough that tropane alkaloids are extremely toxic. Please be very very careful when using any plant containing significant amounts starting low is not just for trip managability purposes but for not dieing purposes.

For these reasons I would not recommend people work with isolated tropane alkaloids at all. Follow advise ron69 said 1-3 seeds max! Unless you are looking for the real dataura experience (delusions) I think you can go higher but I would not recommend it.

 
redeyesmj
#10 Posted : 5/9/2009 9:56:44 PM

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I am going to experiment with this a little more. I belive one seed would be best for me, i really helps with the nuasia!! The last time i took mescaline without dutura i took 220 mg and i pucked my guts out, last time when i took 300 mg and 3 seeds i had no nuasia at all. I just need to work it down alittle more so i dont feel the seeds but still get the nusaia blocker.
 
Phlux-
#11 Posted : 5/10/2009 7:27:51 AM

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do the seeds need to be chewed/crushed when consuming them - i would imagine so - just wanted to check, dont recall reading it here, may have missed it.

swim seems to see 2 kinds of d.stramonium around - one with green stems and white flowers and one with red stems and purplish flowers - same shaped plant, flower and seedpods - any difference other than appearance.

oddly enough d.stramonium was one of the first plants swim learned the botanical name for long ago when just getting into plants Smile
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69ron
#12 Posted : 5/10/2009 8:09:26 AM

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SWIM always chews them thoroughly and then swallows them. I don't know if that's needed or not.

There are quite a few Datura stramonium variants out there with different colored flowers. I don't believe there's much alkaloid variance between the different colors. I've never heard of that before.
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Jorkest
#13 Posted : 5/10/2009 4:05:09 PM

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SWIM and his girlfriend took some pharma plus 1 datura s. seed...they took two different doses of pharma..he took 100mg thh + 50mg harmine + 10mg harmaline + 55mg dmt fumarate plus the one seed...she took 150mg thh + 50mg harmine + 65mg dmt fumarate plus the one seed...shes a bit more of a hard head compared to SWIM..she needs bigger doses..but hes working on increasing her sensitivity..anyway..SWIM could feel the effects from the seed before the pharma mix kicked in..

slight warmth in his face..and a mild euphoria..very calming really..there was no nausea at all..but they both vomited around 2 hour point in the experience...it was interesting though..because neither of them felt any nausea..it was just sorta like...'hey up there! we need to eject some shit outta here!' it was just like...they knew they were going to puke but without the sick feeling you usually get before you puke..

the experience was also a bit more sedated than SWIM remembers of his pharma brew to be...the visuals were more acid like..and the thought process was very clear and easily controlled...SWIM just fell in love with these little seeds...there is something about them that is just wholesome and good..and he understands how dangerous they are..but 1-3 seeds he feels is safe..

they both took one more seed before going to bed and the warm euphoria returned and was a wonderful compliment to falling asleep after a nice trip..

SWIM is going to start growing some of these wonderful beauties..

its funny though because SWIM always thought he would completely stay away from all sorts of datura..but after his little experiment last night...hes fallen in love
it's a sound
 
Infinite I
#14 Posted : 5/10/2009 4:22:13 PM

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Cool jorkest Cool Swims excited about trying them great info again folks!
 
Ginkgo
#15 Posted : 5/10/2009 6:31:49 PM

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Brugmansia is often added to Ayahuasca made by natives in Peru, and there is a good reason for it. The visuals become stronger and more clear, and you can journey in your mind even deeper than with DMT only. By the natives, it is mainly used for people that have issues deep in their psyche, as the Datura/Brugmansia helps the subject face their inner demons even easier.

I did however not know that a few Datura seeds may stop the nausea, thank you for the tip! I will definately try a few Datura seeds the next time i take LSA/LSH. Also, what about using it together with Amanita Muscaria? I don't often have a very nauseaus experience on Amanitas, as I prepare them correct, but there is still this feeling in my stomach that everything isn't totally okay.
 
69ron
#16 Posted : 5/10/2009 6:33:39 PM

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Thanks for the report Jorkest. I’ve updated the opening post to include this.

Were they indeed Datura stramonium seeds or some other Datura? (Not all are the same, for example Datura inoxia has almost completely different effects.)

SWIM has been pleasantly surprised by these seeds, and now considers them an indispensable part of his herb cabinet. They are great in microdoses in conjunction with everything else SWIM has tried with them.
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Jorkest
#17 Posted : 5/10/2009 7:20:23 PM

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what im thinking happened with those two..that i posted about was...

they had eaten some taco's they had made...and they used some beef...and they were both quite full from the tacos when they dosed...SWIM was quite surprised that it worked at all because usually when he takes this brew on a full stomach..the effects are diminished..but within 20 minutes the pharma was noticeable and before that..within about 5 or 10 minutes he felt the effects from the datura...and yes they are datura stramonium..SWIM is gonna have to grow a bunch of these things...hes seriously in love with them..

so anyways...hes not sure how long the datura works for but he figures that right around the two hour mark..when they both purged...the effects of the datura might have started to wain..but as i posted before...he said there was absolutely no nausea...their bodies were just like...we need to purge...and he also said that most of what he purged up was the meat...

another note...is that he usually always purges on this concoction...without the datura...except there is a bit of nausea that comes right before the purge...and he always feels much more euphoric after he does
it's a sound
 
polytrip
#18 Posted : 5/10/2009 8:56:56 PM
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Evening Glory wrote:
Brugmansia is often added to Ayahuasca made by natives in Peru, and there is a good reason for it. The visuals become stronger and more clear, and you can journey in your mind even deeper than with DMT only. By the natives, it is mainly used for people that have issues deep in their psyche, as the Datura/Brugmansia helps the subject face their inner demons even easier.

I did however not know that a few Datura seeds may stop the nausea, thank you for the tip! I will definately try a few Datura seeds the next time i take LSA/LSH. Also, what about using it together with Amanita Muscaria? I don't often have a very nauseaus experience on Amanitas, as I prepare them correct, but there is still this feeling in my stomach that everything isn't totally okay.

I believe that amanita and datura-alkaloïds cancelout eachother. Datura is sayd to be antidote for fly-agaric overdose and viceversa.
 
polytrip
#19 Posted : 5/10/2009 9:19:09 PM
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Jorkest wrote:
what im thinking happened with those two..that i posted about was...

they had eaten some taco's they had made...and they used some beef...and they were both quite full from the tacos when they dosed...SWIM was quite surprised that it worked at all because usually when he takes this brew on a full stomach..the effects are diminished..but within 20 minutes the pharma was noticeable and before that..within about 5 or 10 minutes he felt the effects from the datura...and yes they are datura stramonium..SWIM is gonna have to grow a bunch of these things...hes seriously in love with them..

so anyways...hes not sure how long the datura works for but he figures that right around the two hour mark..when they both purged...the effects of the datura might have started to wain..but as i posted before...he said there was absolutely no nausea...their bodies were just like...we need to purge...and he also said that most of what he purged up was the meat...

another note...is that he usually always purges on this concoction...without the datura...except there is a bit of nausea that comes right before the purge...and he always feels much more euphoric after he does

Datura effects last pretty long. Definately longer than any aya/pharmahuasca brew.
Indeed, this plant is valuable as an admixture. It has always been very good to me, even when i used it in a reckless manner. All the times i combined it with LSD (in amounts that are pretty dangerous when i look back at it) i had wonderfull experiences that can only compare with very deep ayahuasca journeys.
Besides that it enhances and slightly prolongs the halucinogenic effects of LSD i also noticed another thing; When i took way too large amounts of this stuff and combined it with acid, the acid seemed to temper the negative effects of the datura as well. In my teen-age years i have experimented with datura as a hallucinogenic on it's own (and on this forum it has many times been rightfully sayed how dangerous this plant is as a narcotic and i don't want to waste too much words on that topic here) and sometimes combined large amounts of it with acid. While my recollection of all the datura trips i had without acid is blurry, and what i remember of them is quite scary in hindsight (being not so reckless anymore as i was then), of all the times i combined it with acid, i remember every detail and i was very awake and present at those moments. Besides OBE's i saw and felt people emitting flashes of 'lightning' and i saw cities and landscapes of incredible beauty. If treated with caution, these plants can be very valuable.
 
69ron
#20 Posted : 5/10/2009 10:11:35 PM

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polytrip wrote:
Datura effects last pretty long. Definately longer than any aya/pharmahuasca brew.


The length is dose related. The doses SWIM uses only last 4 hours. Hyoscyamine lasts only 4 hours. Scopolamine lasts only 6 hours. That’s when normal doses are used. But when large doses are taken, they can last up to 3 days or more because they dramatically slow down the digestive system at large doses.

If the effects last more than 4-6 hours, you took too much.

At normal doses, the onset of effects for both hyoscyamine and scopolamine are within 5-30 minutes, peaking at 45-90 minutes. But when large doses are taken, it slows down digestion and so the peak could take many hours to be felt.
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I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
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