Hello my friends,

Found this thread:
http://www.drugs-forum.c.../showthread.php?t=55369

Reading it reveals that some people have tried the combo of dosing a harmala plant and an lsa plant at the same time. I have read such reports on erowid too.

People claim that this makes for a very euphoric, very visual trip. So euphoric in fact, that you couldn't possibly have a bad trip on it.

I have not found any report of bad effects on this combo except with over 10g of rue seed which is too high a dose.

I have read of people assuming that this combo could possibly cause serotonin syndrome or respitory depression. These are just assumsions though, and i hope they are not true. Can anyone tell me if any such danger is possible on this stuff?

I have never read any negative report about this combo (at a reasonable dose). This leads me to believe that it is safe. But I want to know that it is safe before I try it.

Sounds like a great experience to have. Sounds very healing and transformative. One report says that it feels so healthy and natural.

But is it safe (atleast as safe as taking them separatly)?
Someone please tell me.

I have used p. harmala many times, and morning glory a few. P. harmala is a brocho/vasodilator and therefore may actually make MG safer. But I still don't know for sure if this combo is safe or not.

Please inform me.
Thanks.

I have used this combo several times to good effect. I find that harmalas make for a much better trip than the LSA seeds alone. I also prefer to eat my mushrooms with harmalas.

I don't think the specific combo of HBWR or MG seeds with rue or aya is problematic in the doses which normal folk will be taking them. I have done no formal study of this, however, and I know of no such studies tbh. But my experience with these seeds (incl. the ever lovely Ololoqui) indicates that it is not only not a problem for me, but that, if anything, the negative physical and more uncomfortable mental effects of these seeds is abrogated by the use of harmalas.

Of course, you must be careful and not combine your MAOIs with any of the counter-indicated substances. And, while many will tell you that a lot of things which tend to be considered bad by ayahuasceros are actually fine... I would err on the side of caution, as you don't want to have the brutal reality of facing 6 or more hours in misery. I have made the mistake of consuming counter-indicated foods and drink too soon after using harmalas, and let me tell you, even 15 or 20 minutes of that is waaaaay to much. When in doubt, don't consume.

A lot of people these days are on prescription drugs... more and more each year. This report says 70% of Americans! http://www.cbsnews.com/8...ake-prescription-drugs/ People seem to have the wish that they can continue using these drugs and also use harmalas. DO NOT DO THIS. While some scripts might be okay, most are not... do not risk it, as you could wind up killing yourself.

But yeah, I find LSA and harmalas to be joyous and uplifting. If anything the harmalas lift the LSA higher than they do LSD... not quite as profound a change as with psilos, but very very nice IMHO.

NOTE: I would recommend that you clean your seeds and only use raw, unadulterated stuff. Starting in the early 70's to discourage the youth from using MG seeds, some commercial outlets began coating their MG seeds in various toxic and unpleasant chemicals. There is no telling how these things might interact with harmalas. They are known to make you sick when ingesting them under normal circumstances... so I can imagine that such reaction might only be worse with MAO inhibited.

Hello,

Thank you for sharing. Sounds like some good stuff. I have used P. Harmala atleast twice a week for several months so I know its safe. I don't take any pills or anything. I mostly eat fruits vegetables and beans, so my diet is good for harmalas anyway.

I used to powder and swallow MG seeds, but that gave me too much nausea, but an awesome euphoric intence trip. Now I do a 20min. CWE and the nausea is berable, but the trip is weak and with too much bronchoconstriction. P.Harmala is a bronchodilator and could help with that. I have read that mint or cinnamon are good MG enhancers but haven't tried that yet. My MG seeds are organic and untreated btw.

So, thanks for the info. Glad to know you think this combo is safe. I would like to hear the opinions of others too to reassure me that this is a safe combo. I want to try it, but first I need to convince myself that it is safe.

Thank you.

Now I have read over a dozen reports of people using this cambo (harmala+lsa seeds). All the reports are 100% positive, nothing bad happened to anyone (except the ones who took too much and had a hard time, but they survived). So that means this cambo is safe when taken at normal doses. Since its safe, I would like to try it. I'm thinking about maybe trying it this saturday.

I'm trying to determine what dose to take. I read that with mushrooms you only take half as much when its with an maoi. Is this true with morning glory? So if my normal dose of MG is 600 seeds CWE I should use only 300 seeds CWE when taken with harmala?

I will use my normal dose of P. Harmala: 5ml of seeds powdered and swallowed.

If anyone else here has tryed the cambo, please share.

Thanks.

What dose do you use, hyperspace? When you take lsa seeds with harmala, do you use only half as many lsa seeds as you would use without harmala?

Tryed it! It works! One teaspoon p. harmala seed powdered and swallowed with morning glory lemon water (200 seeds cold water extraction 30min.) It was so good! Of course it's a safe combo. No pain. No sickness. No hangover. I only had slight nausea at the begining. After taking the seeds I was able to eat a light breakfast before the trip started. Then it started and it was so good, man! I was tripping from noon till almost sunset. In a way, this was my best morning glory trip ever. The harmala trippled the potency and gave a different quality. It was still very much a morning glory trip, just enhanced. The harmala allows the morning glory to come through to its full potential. It was so intense for just 200 seeds, far more intense than when I tryed 450 (without harmala) from the same batch. Good medicine. Very educational. Not so visual like dmt. Mild color enhancement. I would like to try it with dmt to have some visuals. Maybe next time I'll try it with peppermint to see if that makes a differece. I'm so greatful.

Peace and Love

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Congrat P & L. It is rather nice IMHO.

I can't really put a quantitative multiplier on the potentiation, (like 2x or 3x) but it is simply another dimension to the experience and the harmalas allow you to recognize the potential of the LSA (or whatever they are mixed with - that can be safely mixed of course).

In essence, you can notice full blown effects from a much smaller dose, however I don't find that this carries over into the higher doses. So yes, a light trip with harmalas can be equivalent to a much higher dose without (and with that wonderful harmala safety blanket), but taking a large dose with harmalas is not exponentially higher than the smaller doses.

Not sure if that is clear, but it is my experience anyway. If anything, the harmalas can become a limiting factor in that the comfortable nature of the trip prevents one from having those "Holy shit, I may have really overdone it this time" moments that one tends to get from very high doses of LSA seed on their own. (Same applies with mushrooms and also LSD to some degree).

But yeah, in practice this means that a light to moderate dose of LSA seeds can be absolutely magical with harmalas despite the fact that they may be only threshold otherwise. As I said before, I rarely take these seeds or shrooms without harmalas anymore. Next time you do it, definitely consider smoalking some changa or snorting some DMT around or after your peak. It is a game changer for sure.

HF

Seems to me that dosage with maois is more of an art, because it all depends on how you respond. I have gotten uncomfortable from hamalas and hbwr seeds but that was with about 300 mgs harmine/harmaline and 10 seeds in cwe. It made my chest get pretty tight and i got a little paranoid and kept checking my pulse, I also got pretty dizzy when i smoked a cigarette and had to sit down just so i didn't puke everywhere. really intense psychedelia but no real hallucinations. Ive done the same combo before though and it was light. overall tho i support this combo. i won't take lsa containing seeds without harmalas.

Thanks for the info everyone. For me it has been a typical morning glory after glow sence that trip reported above.

Tomorrow I plan to repeat the test with peppermint treatment. No other variable will change. I will report back whether or not this makes a difference. This test will take place 6 days after the first.

Future tests will include using passiflora incarnata tea (250g dry leaf) in place of harmala. It is said to contain harmala alkaloids at 1/80th potency. Here in mexico, people have been using both passiflora and morning glory for hundreds if not thousands of years. Both plants are native to mexico. As far as I know there is no history of using the two plants at the same time. We don't know if the anients ever tried this combo or not, but we can always start using it now.

I have used Passion Flower as an MAOI many times... mostly with psilos, though. I do believe I did passiflora with HWBR seeds to good effect, though that was quite some time ago and there were other substances in the mix. Somehow the overwhelming majority of my harmala/LSA journey were with rue. (or eating some ololiuqui while on aya)

I find that fresh passiflora has a better effect by far than dried... so being in Mexico, you might wanna keep that in mind and harvest just before using.

No idea why this is, and I can't say for sure if it really is like this, but it really seems that way. Esp. with smoking. Smoking dried passionflower vines and leaves produces a very modest effect, but smoking wet vines (inhaling the vapor actually) was always much more potent.

I have lived in a number of places where passiflora vines are growing all over... taking over walls and the like. I would generally take my shrooms and then go looking for passion flower vines to add. I always loved that feeling of transitioning from a straight psychedelic trip into an entheogenic MAOI aided thing. This is very noticeable if you smoke a MAO inhibitor around the peak of a psilocybin journey.

I know that you are interested in potentiating LSA seeds this way, but as I said, my passiflora experience was much more tied to my shrooming.

Another tip. It is very easy to make simple crude extracts of passiflora by reducing your infuions down to a paste or syrup. This is especially useful with passiflora due to its relatively modest harmala profile.

Hey, thanks for the good info HF. Mushrooms with passiflora sounds good.

I tried Morning glory with peppermint and harmala. It was not so effective. I liked it better without peppermint. Maybe LSH is not potentiated as much by the harmala as LSA is?

Anyway, I'll try again tomorrow without peppermint. Still doing this at 6 day intervals. This time with more seeds, 250.

1. it is highly doubted by many of our resident scientists, that peppermint does diddly squat to convert LSA into LSH
2. even IF LSH was made, it would convert back to LSA when it touched your stomach acid.

so, in short, unless you like the flavor of peppermint (or are particularly susceptible to placebo) there is no real benefit to adding it.