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Smoking Datura? Options
 
Nathanial.Dread
#1 Posted : 6/14/2013 3:32:22 AM

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I've heard that smoking cannabis and datura is popular in India, which I take as a sign that it's probably reasonably safe.

I've also heard that it comes with some interesting effects. Has anyone tried this? Erowid doesn't have much to say about it.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 

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Mindlusion
#2 Posted : 6/14/2013 4:01:12 AM

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Not a good idea.

Assuming that its safe because people smoke it in India, is like assuming its safe to huff gasoline because people do that as well, in India.

Heh, if I wanted to smoke datura like that I would never mix it with cannabis, thats just asking to turn your typical cannabis paranoia into something VERY real.

I like to chew a few datura seeds to reduce vasoconstriction, or for mild sedative purposes. It's also effective against seasickness.


The forum has hundreds of posts and entries about datura, smoking it as well. You'll see that practically everyone who posted about it regretted ever making that mistake.

the tropane alkaloids atrophine and scopolamine have an extremely steep dosage curve..
Meaning the difference between sedation, delusions, and death due to anticholinergic toxidrome is extremely small.

What makes this even more dangerous is the potency of the leaves and flowers of the datura plant vary considerably. The seeds are slightly more consistent, but even then. Its risky.

Just search smoking datura in the forum search engine.... and im sure plenty members here could tell you about it.

Quote:
The symptoms of an anticholinergic toxidrome include blurred vision, coma, decreased bowel sounds, delirium, dry skin, fever, flushing, hallucinations, ileus, memory loss, mydriasis (dilated pupils), myoclonus, psychosis, seizures, and urinary retention. Complications include hypertension, hyperthermia, and tachycardia.


I, too, am fascinated by the datura plant.

I used to grow one in a pot, a very interesting plant.. It seems to have a behavior, almost. It has an aura of dread surrounding it, thats for sure. But of course, nothing is black and white. I don't believe there is nothing to gain from this plant. But, I won't be the one to mess with our relationship.

Fear mongering aside, smoking the plant would be safer then brewing a tea and downing it, since you could work your way up. I tried adding some to a changa mix once upon a time, but I wouldn't repeat it.
Smoke at your own risk
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
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dreamer042
#3 Posted : 6/14/2013 4:20:28 AM

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I have smoked datura leaves, flowers, and seeds on numerous occasions with cannabis and without and have never noticed any negative or unpleasant effects (other than the horrible taste of trying to smoke seeds Laughing )

Smoking datura puts me in a kind of a light hypnotic trance state, it's very enjoyable and as alluded to, synergizes very well with cannabis.

Tropane containing plants can be dangerous, please do not take this as an endorsement to go smoke datura. If you choose to pursue this path start with very low amounts and work up very slowly and carefully. Nightshade plants are no joke and it is easy to injure or even kill yourself.

Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
Mindlusion
#4 Posted : 6/14/2013 4:26:15 AM

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^ interesting dreamoar, I never would have thought the combination, but I rarely smoke cannabis and get very uneasy and paranoid when I do, I suppose the sedation would be nice, but not something I would seek out myself.

I know I must have come off a little strong with my post about the dangers, but I feel it's necessary because they are very real.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
changalvia
#5 Posted : 6/14/2013 10:57:45 AM

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I also have a fascination with this plant that started when I was 15.

I read somewhere that the leaves and flowers used to be sold at pharmacies as "jimson weed" cigarettes as a remedy for asthma, not sure why it was taken off the shelf.

So I tried to smoke a flower with some tobacco. My asthma was gone for 2 hours then came back.

So not a perfect cure but definitely a short term remedy if desperate.

Smoking anything is bad... But as for psychoactive effects, I think smoking is pretty safe in moderation, just start small
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Infinite I
#6 Posted : 6/14/2013 4:51:30 PM

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I've read a few reports of yogis in India giving travellers datura mixed with cannabis then robbing them and they walk around out of their minds, dangerous stuff.
 
dreamer042
#7 Posted : 6/14/2013 6:53:23 PM

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The notion of yogis drugging and robbing people seems counter-intuitive, because by definition a yogi is an ascetic. It would be pretty easy to notice datura plant material mixed into your cannabis so I assume it must be an extract that was put on the cannabis?

I know the use of scopalamine extracts to drug and rob people is fairly common in parts of South America, and I wouldn't doubt it happens other places. The tropanes are very powerful and deadly compounds and are certainly not something to be taken lightly.

We need to keep perspective here, a couple seeds chewed up to reduce nausea or a couple puffs of some datura flower from your pipe isn't going to send you into some delusional state or to the ER. As with anything the poison is in the dosage and datura can safely be used in very small amounts.

In the end however, it's better just not to mess with ingesting these plants in any way. The smoked effects really aren't notably that interesting and there are a lot safer nausea control methods. While they can be used safely, you really are playing with fire with these compounds.

Heed the advice well-stated over and over, don't play with datura; it's not worth it.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
TOXSIN
#8 Posted : 6/18/2013 2:18:55 AM

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I experienced smoking a half of a seed of datura on 2 occasions, within 2 hits I could feel the difference, and it was very perculiar was not uncomfortable but could have easily gone astray as someone else posted it felt like there was an edge of paranoia but maybe simly cuzz it was my first time, I also tried making a incense burn out of different plants and a datura seed right in the middle, and i had to open windows as I was getting a panic attack just from the smoke filling the room, maybe placebo, but still weird i'd prefer eating them but I've only eaten up to two at once and got no effects. still have some inoxia and stramonium seeds lieing around btw I smoked and ate the inoxia not the stramonium.
Understand: Nature knows no EVIL, Nature knows no GOOD, people know these things, because we perceive these things, with the gift of senses given to us at birth. A good or bad experience is simply a bridge to a another existential time frame, so always live in the moment and make every one a positive moment!

Any and all posts or interactions are to be held as my fictional writings/short stories or dreams. I may even have some delirium setting in, I've never been tested for it. The only exception to this is the statement about nature above, I feel this is a fact!
 
moniker
#9 Posted : 6/20/2013 11:54:13 PM

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I once smoked some ground datura seeds and found it to be incredibly un-pleasant complete with an agonizing sore throat/dry mouth that lasted for about three hours.

I still cringe involuntarily when ever I think about that time and it has been about 10 years since I experimented with Datura.
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The Observer
#10 Posted : 6/21/2013 2:22:30 AM

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Hey ND.....

FYI, I had a good friend die after taking Datura/Jimson Weed/Devil's Weed/Trumpet FLower, etc.

I have taken Datura 3 or 4 times, usually by making tea.

CAUTION: THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE!! YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER DO DATURA WITHOUT HAVING A SITTER. IT IS VERY EASY TO LOSE GRASP ON REALITY.

My 3 friends camped out the night that one of them died. One of them surfaced the next day, the 2nd one was found dead, fully clothed underwater in a pond, and the 3rd friend wasn't found for another day or two later. And he was found in the middle of a large patch of prickly plants, still as far removed from our "normal" daily reality as he could be.

If you don't have a sitter, or someone to bring you back, I believe you stay in the other space indefinately!

Datura can also be very toxic, so dosing can be the difference between life and death!!

Personally, I strongly urge people to steer clear of Datura at all costs!!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention by using totally fictitious verbiage...........

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inaniel
#11 Posted : 6/27/2013 5:56:42 AM

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A bit off topic, but I recently lived in a small apt complex where datura could be found near my door. They're beautiful, but both my wife and I swear the unit was alive, and very malicious. Strange occurences aplenty. After we moved out, before the lease ended that is, we saw one of our neighbors at the local laundry mat. She had lived at the complex for years and told us that everyone who lived in our unit complained that it was haunted and also terminated the lease early.

That being said, this plant also fascinates me, especially with regards to its use in south america. Pablo amaringo speaks highly of it.


Last time I drank aya, I went on a walk with my wife and child during my difficult come down and datura definitely called me. There was a house we passed where it was growing very abundantly.
I experienced a very lucid, eerie few moments and continued to walk. I dare not try at this time but do enjoy reading about it
 
Cognitive Heart
#12 Posted : 7/8/2014 3:18:57 AM

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I currently have some datura metel growing by my window here. I can already see the seed pods coming in some flowers have died.. some are still strong and upright. Exquisite.. anyways, I'd like to know how many milligrams of plain datura leaf is necessary to experience a pleasant / narcotic or dream-like effect. I have noticed many people enjoy smoking the leaves with cannabis and the synergy is well pronounced. I'd like to try this with the respect and care needed. I do not feel much material is needed from the datura to experience reported effects.
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Jox
#13 Posted : 7/8/2014 3:51:52 AM

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Quote:
I have noticed many people enjoy smoking the leaves with cannabis and the synergy is well pronounced.....


I think you best ask them. There are many datura plants, and not all are equal, and effects are unpredictable...

Quote:
-What is a safe amount of plain datura leaf in terms of mg?


This is not a safe plant.

In India few months ago I met a guy how datura experience was horrible, and he had psychosis, ( figuratively speaking), or he was seriously out of it for about three months. There a lots of horror stories about this plant and use and abuse of westerners in India.

But what worries me is that you are bumping an old topic, and not reading it, obviously not many people here think this is a good plant to use, there is a reason that there is not a section dedicated for datura. On some other forum I saw section on datura, but only accessible to senior members, you get the idea?

Also it worries me that the reason you are interested is that it grows out of your garden, it sounds like: I put anything in my body to get high.
 
Nathanial.Dread
#14 Posted : 7/8/2014 4:22:45 AM

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Cognitive Heart wrote:
I currently have some datura metel growing by my window here. I can already see the seed pods coming in, some flowers have died, some are still strong and upright, though. Exquisite. Anyways, I'd like to know how many mg of plain datura leaf is necessary to experience a pleasant/narcotic or 'dream-like' effect. I have noticed many people enjoy smoking the leaves with cannabis and the synergy is well pronounced. I'd like to try this, with the respect and care needed. I do not feel much material is needed from the datura to experience reported effects.

-What is a safe amount of plain datura leaf in terms of mg?

--

Thumbs up

There is no 'set safe amount' for Datura for a number of reasons.

1) Every plant is different and depending on it's environment, it may produce a large number of tropanes or very little. There's no standardization, so it's impossible to say x-grams will be safe.
2) There's no data. Very few people experiment with dature and of those who do, even fewer are willing to go back and do analysis and bioassays at different doses to determine a dose-response curve.
3) It is so dangerous that very few people want responsibility for telling someone how to take it. Even the Erowid project, which will tell you how to safely cook meth and inject heroin, refuses to speculate on how much datura or brugmansia someone should take. Take a moment to think about that fact.

I'm not encouraging you to do do an experiment with dature (in fact, I really hope you don't), but if you want to try it, this is the safest way I can think of:

Pick a plant (1 plant will have pretty uniform toxin concentration throughout the leaves, only use this plant, only use the leaves) and harvest way, WAY less than you think you need, and smoke that. See the effects. (We're talking small fractions of a leaf here.) Ideally, you won't get any effects your first time. Very slowly, giving yourself at least a week to 'dry out' between experiments, smoke slightly larger doses each time until you get to an effect that you like or you begin to feel even the smallest amount of discomfort.

If, at any point, you start to feel like you are getting sick or loosing control, stop and abort the experiment. Under no circumstances should you do anything with the leaves but smoke them. I've done a lot of reading on this and I have yet to find any reports of anyone having serious adverse reactions to smoking them (eating them or making a tea is another story, that is a terrible idea).

Again, I really don't think this is a good idea, but in the interests of harm reduction, I'd rather see you do it this way that just grabbing handfuls of leaves and sticking them in a pipe.

I have absolutely no idea what repeated dosing of tropanes does to your brain (although scopolomine can be used repeatedly as an anti-nausea med without hugely adverse effects), as I said, most people don't engage with datura more than once, so you are stepping into uncharted territory. If you do decide to do this, though, please post reports, contribute to the literature on this fascinating, horrifying plant.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Nathanial.Dread
#15 Posted : 7/8/2014 4:26:59 AM

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Here are all the available reports on smoking datura on Erowid.

https://www.erowid.org/e...=&Intensity=&I2=
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Jin
#16 Posted : 7/8/2014 5:36:00 AM

yes


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yes i've even heard these horror stories , and known someone who took a few years to sober up after eating datura (the whole seed pod)

i've also met few tourists in the mountains who are still crazy , i don't know what they did whether the ate it or smoked it as an extract with false yogis ( the kind who dresses up as yogis but are really robbers )

smoking datura is also popular among robbers and theives ,

many of the beggars in india , the naked and crazy ones are datura connoisseurs



illusions !, there are no illusions
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Cognitive Heart
#17 Posted : 7/8/2014 4:15:10 PM

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Thank you all so much for intelligent replies!

"Some of the greatest medicines are the greatest poisons."

I am aware of the dangers of datura smoking and its anticholinergic effects. After reading comments and the book titled 'Huanduj: Brugmansia' I have a good understanding of this plant family and their capabilities in shamanistic rituals (even with ayahuasca) as well as the tropane alkaloids. Many amazonian healers utilize tropane containing plants to encourage visions and clairvoyance. The medicinal/healing properties of datura are quite well known. Obviously we are talking about extremely low doses here. And no, this is not about getting high. Thumbs down

This is a very sacred plant and needs to be respected. Externally and internally for many cultures, generations and rituals. It's been said to help those move forward in life to forget past mistakes, misjudgements or even murder.

This is the Nexus. This is about safe exploration of consciousness. Whether datura has any related role in that or not is of interest. I know from experience the horror stories and long term consequence that can manifest from these compounds. Most people blackout from not knowing the history, consequences, dangers or even dosages for that matter and can result in brain/body damage. It goes by many names.. usually by how the experience unfolds for said person.

I don't want to just grab a bunch of leaves.. too many assumptionsConfused . What I want is to accurately measure a safe mg dose to see if the synergy with cannabis is of interest.. as explained by a few Nexus members (and other related forums) already.

That fact is completely scary.. considering how well established Erowid is. And I have great respect for them and what they do. Thank you for the accurate experience setting! I have one leaf drying and then continuing with grinding it all up to much smaller fragments. I'll really space it out to leave room for introspection and safety and use other methods with smoking.. such as cannabis. I am merely interested in the very low dose aspects to possibly enhance or distort my perception or dreams. Other than that the medicinal uses are very intriguing.

Also, a friend of mine recently informed me of the potential use of the roots of the plant. Although toxic, they are said to be highly hallucinogenic and somewhat safer than eating seeds or making a seed/leave tea. The roots were used medicinally as well as to fly over landscapes and their own bodies to find cures and to engage in battle with animals, beasts and spirits. Shocked

What could be happening pharmacologically?
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Cognitive Heart
#18 Posted : 7/8/2014 4:21:42 PM

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Quote:

There is no 'set safe amount' for Datura for a number of reasons.

1) Every plant is different and depending on it's environment, it may produce a large number of tropanes or very little. There's no standardization, so it's impossible to say x-grams will be safe.
2) There's no data. Very few people experiment with dature and of those who do, even fewer are willing to go back and do analysis and bioassays at different doses to determine a dose-response curve.
3) It is so dangerous that very few people want responsibility for telling someone how to take it. Even the Erowid project, which will tell you how to safely cook meth and inject heroin, refuses to speculate on how much datura or brugmansia someone should take. Take a moment to think about that fact.

I'm not encouraging you to do do an experiment with dature (in fact, I really hope you don't), but if you want to try it, this is the safest way I can think of:

Pick a plant (1 plant will have pretty uniform toxin concentration throughout the leaves, only use this plant, only use the leaves) and harvest way, WAY less than you think you need, and smoke that. See the effects. (We're talking small fractions of a leaf here.) Ideally, you won't get any effects your first time. Very slowly, giving yourself at least a week to 'dry out' between experiments, smoke slightly larger doses each time until you get to an effect that you like or you begin to feel even the smallest amount of discomfort.

If, at any point, you start to feel like you are getting sick or loosing control, stop and abort the experiment. Under no circumstances should you do anything with the leaves but smoke them. I've done a lot of reading on this and I have yet to find any reports of anyone having serious adverse reactions to smoking them (eating them or making a tea is another story, that is a terrible idea).

Again, I really don't think this is a good idea, but in the interests of harm reduction, I'd rather see you do it this way that just grabbing handfuls of leaves and sticking them in a pipe.

I have absolutely no idea what repeated dosing of tropanes does to your brain (although scopolomine can be used repeatedly as an anti-nausea med without hugely adverse effects), as I said, most people don't engage with datura more than once, so you are stepping into uncharted territory. If you do decide to do this, though, please post reports, contribute to the literature on this fascinating, horrifying plant.

[/quote]
Couldn't agree more. Really enjoyed that input. Thumbs up
Rekindle your will to live the opportunity of life itself...
 
Cognitive Heart
#19 Posted : 7/8/2014 4:27:29 PM

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dreamer042 wrote:
I have smoked datura leaves, flowers, and seeds on numerous occasions with cannabis and without and have never noticed any negative or unpleasant effects (other than the horrible taste of trying to smoke seeds Laughing )
Smoking datura puts me in a kind of a light hypnotic trance state, it's very enjoyable and as alluded to, synergizes very well with cannabis.
Tropane containing plants can be dangerous, please do not take this as an endorsement to go smoke datura. If you choose to pursue this path start with very low amounts and work up very slowly and carefully. Nightshade plants are no joke and it is easy to injure or even kill yourself.


Quote:
Fear mongering aside, smoking the plant would be safer then brewing a tea and downing it, since you could work your way up. I tried adding some to a changa mix once upon a time, but I wouldn't repeat it.
Smoke at your own risk


Quote:

I also have a fascination with this plant that started when I was 15.
I read somewhere that the leaves and flowers used to be sold at pharmacies as "jimson weed" cigarettes as a remedy for asthma, not sure why it was taken off the shelf.
So I tried to smoke a flower with some tobacco. My asthma was gone for 2 hours then came back.
So not a perfect cure but definitely a short term remedy if desperate.
Smoking anything is bad... But as for psychoactive effects, I think smoking is pretty safe in moderation, just start small


I see various other reports of narcotic-like effects at low doses.. similar to what is presented here.
Rekindle your will to live the opportunity of life itself...
 
Cognitive Heart
#20 Posted : 7/8/2014 5:30:01 PM

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The Observer wrote:
Hey ND.....
FYI, I had a good friend die after taking Datura/Jimson Weed/Devil's Weed/Trumpet FLower, etc.
Personally, I strongly urge people to steer clear of Datura at all costs!!


Much respect towards you and your friends, with or without life.
Rekindle your will to live the opportunity of life itself...
 
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