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maoi activity in non mesc alks Options
 
highRvibratoryfreq
#1 Posted : 6/12/2013 3:05:41 PM

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are any of the other alkaloids found in peruvian torch active maoi's?

thanks!
 

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BecometheOther
#2 Posted : 6/12/2013 10:26:30 PM

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peruvian torch is more of a pure mescaline source than san pedro or bridgesii. San pedro has some other alkaloids that may be sedative, and bridgesii is the one that people think contains additional maoi compounds, but afaik peruvian torch is the most pure mescaline cacti
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highRvibratoryfreq
#3 Posted : 6/13/2013 11:30:11 AM

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Yes i am aware that peruvian torch contains the highest levels of pure mescaline, however after evaporating the leftover acetone from acetone bombing a torch extract you still get left with a hashy consistency gooey sticky ball of alkaloids and i was wondering if these alkaloids from the torch would be similar to that of the bridgesii that may have maoi properties.
 
The Day Tripper
#4 Posted : 6/13/2013 5:40:25 PM

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highRvibratoryfreq wrote:
Yes i am aware that peruvian torch contains the highest levels of pure mescaline, however after evaporating the leftover acetone from acetone bombing a torch extract you still get left with a hashy consistency gooey sticky ball of alkaloids and i was wondering if these alkaloids from the torch would be similar to that of the bridgesii that may have maoi properties.


I can say the gooey alkaloid laden resin resulting from many a dry acetone wash on brown goo from hcl saltings, that gave about ~%40 mescaline by weight, are indeed active.

This was from an extraction from bridgesii, and i can only assume its some of the isoquinolones, other pea's than mescaline, and peas with dissimilar structure to mescaline that got washed away in the dry acetone as the hcls.

Judging by the affects, id say its more of a stimulating effect, and given how tyramine, n-methyl-tyramine, and hordenine affect animal subjects in the literature, i'm inclined to believe the acetone wash products are a mixture of NE re-leasers, and maois.

Not much fun by themselves, but mixed with some mescaline hcl, it definitely changes the character of the trip.

Browsing through trouts notes, it seems like while torch does have the highest concentration of mescaline compared to other peas, you can concentrate the "others" into an active dose, or mescaline potentiation, or if you use pedro/bridgesii you end up with alot more "other alkaloids". This is inline with the analysis's on alkaloid content in trouts notes on trichos. Hey that rhymes Laughing.
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ipumaestro
#5 Posted : 6/13/2013 6:40:59 PM

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this cat hasnt heard of anyone succesfully using cacti alks as an maoi for tryptamines

one could drink n-n,dmt in a salt form at obviously powerful doses while having predosed with the "other" cacti alks assay if dmt/activated experience occurs

achuma puma
 
ouro
#6 Posted : 6/13/2013 8:59:44 PM

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mao and maoi are very complicated subjects that tend to get oversimplified by psychadelic enthusiasts; some facts:

I think I read in a paper that about 60 percent of the mescaline the test subjects ate was expelled through urine unmetabolized. anyone can research this to verify. If you ingested an maoi that prevents the breakdown of mesc it probably wouldn't potentiate the mesc that much anyways.

There are *many* different enzymes in the body that metabolize different types of amines, and different inhibitors that target only a fraction of these enzymes. I believe hordenine itself inhibits the breakdown of PEA so it is reasonable to suspect it would inhibit the breakdown of mesc because it is very similar to PEA structurally. Hordenine is very common in cacti. Other types of MAOI may have absolutely no effect on the rate of metabolism of PEA's.

Besides the taxonomy of "peruvian torch" vs "san pedro" and "bridgesii" being so backwards and confused to be almost useless, I have seen very little evidences that any one of them has reliably different alkaloid profile in the same growing conditions. There are so many clones that fall into each of those categories with wildly different potencies, and so much disagreement about how to define those categories in the first place.

Other alks in trichocerues cacti have been isolated and noted on internet forums by seemingly reliable people enough that I am personally pretty sure they are active. I never did the experiment myself, but you can look up burnt's san pedro analysis for starters. I think he showed there was only mesc and DMPEA in his pedro extract.

Ultimately these ideas aren't even that useful or practical. Consider what material you have available and if you can get whatever experience you are looking for with it. Good luck.
 
highRvibratoryfreq
#7 Posted : 6/14/2013 10:37:48 AM

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thanks for the replys..

im not looking to potentiate the mesc sulphate that i have. i just have a fair amount of these other alks and was interested in throwing them into a changa blend to see if they would work as an maoi for the dmt and bring in some cactus spirit at the same time. i just had no idea of the potency of an maoi effect they would produce compared to say 200mg of harmalas per gram of dmt.
 
Infundibulum
#8 Posted : 6/14/2013 11:03:19 AM

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ouro wrote:
mao and maoi are very complicated subjects that tend to get oversimplified by psychadelic enthusiasts; some facts:

I think I read in a paper that about 60 percent of the mescaline the test subjects ate was expelled through urine unmetabolized. anyone can research this to verify. If you ingested an maoi that prevents the breakdown of mesc it probably wouldn't potentiate the mesc that much anyways.

There are *many* different enzymes in the body that metabolize different types of amines, and different inhibitors that target only a fraction of these enzymes. I believe hordenine itself inhibits the breakdown of PEA so it is reasonable to suspect it would inhibit the breakdown of mesc because it is very similar to PEA structurally. Hordenine is very common in cacti. Other types of MAOI may have absolutely no effect on the rate of metabolism of PEA's.

Besides the taxonomy of "peruvian torch" vs "san pedro" and "bridgesii" being so backwards and confused to be almost useless, I have seen very little evidences that any one of them has reliably different alkaloid profile in the same growing conditions. There are so many clones that fall into each of those categories with wildly different potencies, and so much disagreement about how to define those categories in the first place.

Other alks in trichocerues cacti have been isolated and noted on internet forums by seemingly reliable people enough that I am personally pretty sure they are active. I never did the experiment myself, but you can look up burnt's san pedro analysis for starters. I think he showed there was only mesc and DMPEA in his pedro extract.

Ultimately these ideas aren't even that useful or practical. Consider what material you have available and if you can get whatever experience you are looking for with it. Good luck.

Exactly.

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BecometheOther
#9 Posted : 6/14/2013 8:31:02 PM

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I disagree that taxonomy of peruvian torch san pedro and bridgesii are that confused at all... It is really easy to tell the difference between the three and they all have noticelby different effects and potencies..

for example biassays show bridgesii to be on average way more potent than panchanoi, it is probably the most consistant in its potency and alkaloid profile.

Now peruvian torch can be murky waters because there are many different kinds, some of which were mislabled seed in the begining that actually may be more like cuzco than peruvian torch.

but as far as it being confused its not confused at all the three are very distinct from each other IMO, and are so very different, it should not be assumed all tricho cacti are created equally this is far from the truth.

ouro, do you speak from experience of having tried all three yourself? to say a pedro grown next to a bridgesii will have the same alkaloid content is outright wrong IMO
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obliguhl
#10 Posted : 6/14/2013 9:05:22 PM

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http://www.sciencedirect...e/pii/S0378874110004836

This paper might be of interest.

"New mescaline concentrations from 14 taxa/cultivars of Echinopsis spp. (Cactaceae) (“San Pedro”) and their relevance to shamanic practice"
 
Infundibulum
#11 Posted : 6/14/2013 9:37:10 PM

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Taxonomy of trichocerei is a touchy subject. I think that even Trout himself said that things becoem more hazy the more you look at them (or something to similar effect). Unless we can have accurate DNA barcoding markers (i.e. a rigorous, non subjective means of classifying organisms) for the trichocereus genus, things will continue to be hazy. Maybe the most readily discernible are the bridgesii due to teh long spines, but this trait can vary a lot.


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dg
#12 Posted : 6/15/2013 3:07:48 AM
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nicely put Ouro
 
 
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