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Datura strumonium vs. Datura inoxia Options
 
69ron
#21 Posted : 5/11/2009 6:05:49 AM

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970Codfert wrote:
Would Datura Strumonium seeds help with nausea that is not related to taking psychoactive substances?

Also, what is a characteristic that would help identify a datura plant as Strumonium or inoxia? Erowid wasn't much help, neither was google.


Datura stramonium seeds help with all sorts of stomach problems, not just nausea from psychoactives.

Datura stramonium seeds are nearly black and quite small. They taste sort of like jalapeño seeds without the hotness.

Datura inoxia seeds are light tan and larger. They taste sort of like bread.
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69ron
#22 Posted : 5/11/2009 6:10:04 AM

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SWIM has now tried Datura inoxia with oral bufotenine and also oral mescaline.

Unlike Datura stramonium which completely blocks the nausea from bufotenine, Datura inoxia seemed to INCREASE IT.

When SWIM used Datura inoxia with mescaline, it caused nausea.

Datura inoxia doesn't go so well with mescaline or bufotenine. I don't know why, but instead of blocking the nausea, it causes more nausea. I really don't understand that because these seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine while Datura stramonium seeds contain almost just hyoscyamine and a little bit of scopolamine. It seems that hyoscyamine is better at blocking psychedelic induced nausea while scopolamine increases it. That's really weird because scopolamine is used for treating motion sickness. You would think it would be better than hyoscyamine, but it's much much worse.
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970Codfert
#23 Posted : 5/11/2009 5:41:04 PM

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I see, so they are most easily identified by the seeds. Thank you.

Quote:
Datura inoxia doesn't go so well with mescaline or bufotenine. I don't know why, but instead of blocking the nausea, it causes more nausea. I really don't understand that because these seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine while Datura stramonium seeds contain almost just hyoscyamine and a little bit of scopolamine. It seems that hyoscyamine is better at blocking psychedelic induced nausea while scopolamine increases it. That's really weird because scopolamine is used for treating motion sickness. You would think it would be better than hyoscyamine, but it's much much worse.


strange, that makes no sense... I will make sure not to mix those up. Maybe hyoscyamine has a sort of homeopathic effect, so in larger doses it would indeed cause nausea, with the opposite being true for scopolamine. just a thought.
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69ron
#24 Posted : 5/11/2009 6:21:42 PM

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The dose of Datura inoxia SWIM used for bufotenine was 2 seeds, for mescaline 3 seeds.

Maybe at higher doses of seeds, it might block the nausea like Datura stramonium does? Or would it get worse. Any ideas?
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Jorkest
#25 Posted : 5/11/2009 6:41:29 PM

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SWIM hasnt got to try inoxia yet...but stramonium is wonderful...for some strange reason SWIM feels a very interesting pull to use this wonderful substance..in combination with some of his other favorite psychedelics..possibly its because he loves combining new and novel things..especially ones that slightly modify the effects of the substance you are taking..and one that tastes lovely..or maybe its because they are so potent..who knows...

but 69ron i wouldnt recommend upping the dose of the inoxia with bufotenine...seems a bit risky..but what dose would you try if you did want to try it again with more d. inoxia?
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69ron
#26 Posted : 5/11/2009 6:55:06 PM

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Check out this medical site which gives dosage information for scopolamine:

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/scopolamine.html

They recommend up to 800 micrograms for Parkinsonian Tremor. That would be about 17 seeds.

SWIM would double the dose to 4-6 seeds. 10 seeds are still very safe. SWIM would never go beyond 10 though.

Datua inoxia seeds contain up to 0.46% alkaloids (97% of that is scopolamine). Each seed weighs about 10 mg. So 10 seeds could contain about 460 micrograms of scopolamine. 300 to 650 micrograms would be a normal dose used for motion sickness, so maybe SWIM is just not using enough?

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Ginkgo
#27 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:11:19 PM

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Is there any difference between Inoxia and Stramonium except the cleaner alkaloid mix in Inoxia? I am thinking about using 3 Inoxia seeds to stop the nausea (and potentiate the effects) from HBWR. Would this roughly be the same as 3 Stramonium seeds, or are there any difference in seed weight or how much alkaloids they contain?

Would there be a problem to ingest a MAOI together with such a small dose of Tropana alkaloids? I mean, I know it is not advised to do so, but is it really any chance it will potentiate the effects from the Datura so much that it reaches the delerium stage?
 
69ron
#28 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:39:42 PM

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Datura and similar plants are added to some ayahuasca containing MAOIs. Some shamans do this all the time. I don't believe they add enough to cause delirium.

There's a HUGE difference between Datura inoxia and Datura stramonium. HUGE. They feel nothing alike at all.

SWIM has both and is now quite experienced with the two.

Datura stramonium is a stimulant, Datura inoxia is a sedative. Datura stramonium is good at blocking the nausea of psychedelics, Datura inoxia is not and can increase it. Datura stramonium potentiates the effects of psychedelics a lot, Datura inoxia can actually bring you down a little because of its sedative effects.

I'm talking about doses of 3 seeds for each, not delirium causing doses. But even at those doses, the effects are still very different according to others who've used dangerous delirium causing doses.

SWIM is going to try 1 Datura stramonium seed with 150 mg of harmine or THH at some point, but he's a little nervous about it. He doesn't want any delirium at all. I doubt they will potentiate the effects of Datura stramonium more than 3x. 3x seems to be the typical potentiation maximum for harmine or THH.
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69ron
#29 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:44:16 PM

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Also SWIM found 3 Datura inoxia seeds to have no body effects at all. He experiences pleasant mild sedation, mild euphoria, and some very extremely mild LSD-like visual from it. With 3 Datura stramonium seeds he feels stimulated, some euphoria, and some definite body effects (stomach feels different). The effects are so totally different at that dose that you could not possibly mistake the effects of Datura inoxia for those of Datura stramonium.
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Ginkgo
#30 Posted : 5/20/2009 8:28:17 PM

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I thought you said in a thread that Inoxia's alkaloids is something like 97 % Hyoscamine? Hyoscamine is the alkaloid used medicinally to relieve nausea. What about Atropa Belladonna?

Edit: I now see you said that stramonium is mostly Hyoscamine, and inoxia is mostly Scopolamine. Sorry about that, but for some reason I thought you said Inoxia contains 97 % Hyoscamine. So what you are saying is that Scopolamine does not cure nausea? Do you have any knowledge about the alkaloids in Atropa Belladonna?
 
69ron
#31 Posted : 5/20/2009 8:53:13 PM

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Scopolamine works for motion sickness better than anything else. But the nausea you get from most psychedelics is not related to motion sickness, its mostly caused by the digestive system being overly stimulated. Hyoscyamine helps slow down the digestive system much more than scopolamine can so I believe that’s why it’s very effective for psychedelic induced nausea while scopolamine isn’t. Large doses of scopolamine probably are effective though, because it also slows down the digestive system, just not nearly as much as hyoscyamine can. That’s my understanding anyway.
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kemist
#32 Posted : 5/21/2009 2:38:02 AM

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So would be seeds of Hyoscyamus niger "Henbane" any use as source of hyoscyamine and how much?
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Kannamate
#33 Posted : 5/21/2009 3:50:48 AM

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I found an article(below) on the leaves and roots so I have no idea if the seeds are safe,or if they contain the same ratios of alkaloids,but relatively the whole plant should keep around the same ratio of alkaloids. It seems to contain a higher amount of hyoscyamine,but has less potency too so you'd have to take more than stramonium. Henbane also contains scopamaline probably more than stramonium and hyoscyamus niger has traces of atropine. Did shamans use Hyoscyamus niger?
belladonna group plants
 
kemist
#34 Posted : 6/2/2009 9:30:36 AM

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Kannamate wrote:
Did shamans use Hyoscyamus niger?
Some central europian curranderas used to get high doses...
...not word about `small dose` traditionally used
....ILPT gonna be first Smile lol

As a kemist I never met ILPT in physical form and never talk to him. He share his wisdom, trough my mind, telepathicly only. Please don`t prosecute me, for his possible illegal activities. He is bonkers about chemistry and doesn`t even exist in this primitive reality !!!
 
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