After I posted the thread of super-cheap DIY mg scale, this thread is probably going to be surprising. Many people here seem to weigh spice with expensive scales and then vape it in cheap homemade machine or beter with a vaporgenie. I probabyl have complete opposite mentality. For weighing you just need accuracy, so homemade scale is enough if it works right.
But vaping spice is very challenging and need to be done fast and well.
I've tried the machine and it's just too hard to use especially after few hits.
It seems spice doesn't vape much before 150°C and burns somewhere at 180.
The vaping temperature range seems to be very thin so it needs a good vape to give really good hits easily.

These vapes are imo good for spice (sorted by how good they are for spice, descending):
-VapeXhale Cloud (very expensive, most precise and powerful)
-Life Saber Vaporizer (expensive)
-Silver Surfer, Da Buddha (similar to LSV, not all-glass)
-Volcano with liquid pads (very expensive and bags will smell, liquid pads are not cheap either to replace if you have impurities)
-Possibly Extreme Q if you are creative
-Of course the glass vaporgenie (cheap, but not precise or very powerful)
-The Machine
-Other vapes...?

Most of good vapes are not suited well for spice, but some are and here they are listed.
EDIT: Vapes on the list are these which I've experinecd with spice or are similar to these. And also these which have been reported here to work well. Sorting of inexperienced ones is guessed by my research.

I will review a VapeXhale Cloud with spice.
It is possibly the best tool to vape spice if you want the best hit easily and reliably.
It is very expensive, so probably only few could experience this.
The Cloud is an all-glass vape with water filtration, that simulates a bong. It's powerful, precise temperature control, tasty and easy to clean.
With spice it works very similar to the machine, except the flame is replaced by very consistent and precise heat from the unit. There are ELBs with the unit, which are steel baskets which can encapsulate anything inside and then put that into the vape and inhale.
With spice you fill the ELB with steel sponge like the machine. Then add spice and some more steel sponge and close it. There you have it - an encapsulated ticket to hyperspace. Put it in the unit, put the glass mouhpiece with or without water on it and you're ready to go. You don't have to care about distance of the flame or strengh of your inhaling, the temperature is on the sweet spot here everytime if you set in right on the knob (lowest temp seems to work best). If there is a lot of spice loaded a trusty sitter should hold the device for you as it is very strong and expensive (500-700$). One hit can be enough to vape everything, or two with smaller lungs. It is vaped so fast you can taste the sweet delicious exhale (not even a hint of burning spice or anything) before reality falls apart. Anyone else who use REALLY GOOD vapes for spice?

Gvg not precise or powerful? I would have to strongly disagree with you in that one.

Would you further explain this opinion?

Also the most used scale on the forum isn't expensive at all.

GVG can be powerful and somewhat precise, but that needs skill. And skill can go away after few hits. It's just better to be able to just inhale and don't care about anything. No worries about burning the spice or not heating enough. Excellent hit everytime.
Precision is relative term, the GVG may be more precise than the machine, but it can't be as precise as the Cloud.
The scale opinion - ok, you're right, the gemini is cheap and is reported to work good, I jus't can't find one as I'm not in USA and there seems to be no as cheap equivalent here.
The gemini seems to be very cheap for what it does and is there any other scale that does the same but is also this cheap?

Can you order from amazon? Or do you have huge shipping costs?

I read the entire GVG thread, like 20+ pages I think, while I awaited my GVG delivery. My first try I was able to vaporize 5mg perfectly. I used this small amount so I could judge whether I was usujg it correctly. Beings that I def felt effects from 5 mg I knew I had a winner. That's precision to me. Also I did this without any issues or learning curve. I don't see how anyone can have issues learning how to use it, it's really that easy.

Then my friend had a go, with no experience or reading in his own I told him what to do and he was perfectly successful on his first try. That simplicity to me.

I was able to vaporize and inhale a 50mg dose in one inhale. Thats more powerful than it needs to be. With no need to hit it again afterwards I don't see any issues. Also, I get the ceramic filter glowing and keep it glowing while I inhale and I don't taste or burn anything at all.

My opinion on VG is not experience based, but I've read a lot about this vape.
Most people report steep learing curve, your report just doesn't sound average to me.
I get it how the vape works and what causes the learning curve with it.
Some common sense and skill can sure be enough to operate this vape. Not all people have this.
For example I'm very clumsy so I believe I couldn't achieve such good results from the GVG as you.
I failed miserably even with the machine. Most hits being weak or burned and only a few well done ones.
With the Cloud this just doesn't happen. Even a clumsy stupis person can "just hit it" and get an opaque tasty and potent vapor. No positioning of the spice to the center, no flame control, no inhaling control.

Of couse the GVG can vape efficiently and with a skillful person also pretty easily. All the vapes on the list do that. Some just do it even better and easier than the others.

GVG is imo the best vape for spice if you consider price. I should try it someday.



That sort of puzzle me. How is the vape supposed to vape MJ right if even a glowing filter can't burn the spice? MJ needs higher temp to vape well than spice to burn. And I've seen reports of people able to burn MJ in the VG. Isn't your VG some exceptionally cold one unit?

Theres this little fella http://compare.ebay.co.u...&ff13=80&ff14=63

And this http://www.amazon.com/Ho...al-Jewelry/dp/B007PLR5BO

You say that you’ve used the machine and the “VapeXhale”. You include a list of other vaporizers and rank them – have you actually used any of them? Have you used any of them extensively?

For example, when all you say about the Volcano is that it’s expensive and “bags are not best for this” and when you say about the GVG “not precise or very powerful”, I tend to think that you haven’t tried either of these devices.

If you have tried all of the devices you listed, then please give more detail about why you rank them as you do. If you haven’t tried them, then how can you rank them?

Also, a reasonably accurate milligram scale can be purchased for about $20. Why do you call a $20 scale expensive and a $100 GVG “cheap”?

I am glad that you made this thread since it seems that we need to know more about the ability of current and future vaporizers to be utilized as a DMT smoking apparatus.

I myself have just recently bought a vaporizer and indeed the temperature setting is very important.

I myself recently purchased a vaporizer and I'm stall gathering information about it's use. I know that there are several thread about this on the DMT-Nexus and maybe in the near future I will make a separate subforum for it.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I think that even though the GVG is a wonderful asset, you still have to learn how to work with it to get the best out of it. And I admit that is a rather low curve, but I get the feelings at times that there should be an even more easy way to reliably smoke/vaporize DMT.

Something that can also be used by science to make sure the test-subject does take a perfect and set amount of vaporized DMT to inhale. I think that the vaporizers might give that ability and I'm wondering where we as DMT users have to look at when we select vaporizers for that very specific DMT purpose.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I agree that removing vaping technique as a variable would tighten up this whole equation quite a bit.

I have an Extreme Q and a Cloud. I've experienced Volcano and some other vapes I think are not good for spice. I've read a lot about 7th floor vapes (Silver surfer, Life Saber, da Buddha) and they have very similar airpath and heater as my Extreme Q, they are just like the EQ without lights and whistles, and with a better design for performance and cleaning. So I think my guess of their place on list can be accurate. Volcano is capable of great things, however its bags will condense some vapor and they would reek the smell a lot unless replaced a lot. Glass airpath is good for spice - the GVG, EQ, SSV, LSV, VXC all have or can have that. With some steel sponge or meshes you can have great vape for spice from all of them. And every vape has differnt precision and performance and they differ in being concentrate-friendly in design.
If i count only my experienced vapes, and not similar ones, I would rank them like: The Machine < Extreme Q < Cloud. There can be more vapes that can be made to work great with spice, it needs more research, I don't and won't have every kind of vape on the planet.

I think I can imagine what is exactly happening in the airpath on every vape I have and probably even on many other vapes I haven't experienced.
For example I've imagined long ago how the Cloud will vape, where it will condense, what happens in the bowl etc. And when I've got one, everything was working exactly like expeceted.
With an Extreme lighter control goes down (and its reported with 7th floor too), with a Cloud breath control goes down too. I don't know of any other all-glass vape that gives consistent heat without other variable than the temperature knob.

I use a small torch. The GVG, for pot, was designed for use with a lighter. I can't comment on temps for pot. Using a torch, applying more heat to the filter increase inside chamber temp. Two ways to decrease this. One way would be to decrease torch contact with filter. Or you can increase airflow, which also does two things. Increased airflow will decrease chamber temp while also increase intake allowing you to Vape moar.

If you don't use enough heat, which I suspect is everyone's problem that has issues figuring it out, then it will be difficult to Vape all in one hit. If you use as much heat as possible, but don't increase airflow then I think it would be possible to burn the DMT. If you get it red hot and slowly increase airflow you can see what is happening therefore allowing you to adjust as needed.

Trav, that's a good point. Scientifically accurate smoking devices that don't require skill to operate would be ideal. And to be fair I probably got lucky and just happened to use the correct airflow speed and heat applied.

How about the DaVinci Vape? Organicosis has been thinking about getting one, it's relatively affordable and you can control the temperature digitally.

Da Vinci is for herbs - concentrates would be very tricky or impossible i think. Also it's been reported as tricky to clean. I think that the spice smell could reek there forever. Also probably the main drawback is the Da Vinci is a session vape, not a vape with hits on demand. So imo the Da Vinci not good for spice at all.

There are a lot of vapes out there, only few of them are good and even fewer are suitable for spice. My research and experience has left only that small list in the first post. Possibly there are more good vapes that could work great with spice, any more ideas?

I think requirements for a good vape for spice are:
-All glass and simple to clean vapor path (or something equally cleanable)
-The bowl can hold concentrates somehow (at least with some steel sponge)
-Precise temperature control (fixed temp vapes will probably be too hot)
-Performance (weak hits won't do the thing)
-Hits on demand (bowl contents cold when not hitting it)
-Not a conduction type (conduction heating is not precise nor powerful enough)
-Easy to use

All points should be true for a candidate. All these vapes on the list are like this. Some bottom ones there can lack the precision and ease of use.

The vapeXhale looks pretty promising. My only gripe would be portability. But in a situation where that doesn't matter I think it would be a powerful device. As well as ease of placing it down or whatever after taking a hit.

Now if only you could integrate its eating ability into the GVG. Now that would be a doozy!

Hi skt_nexus,

I think I'm going to get one of these. I don't like the learning curve of the GVG. I'll continue to try to get better but I'd much more like something that is less-harsh on the lungs and which is consistent.

I was wondering if you could explain the steel sponge? Will volcano liquid pads work? I have some of those.

Thanks!

Getting one of these is a great choice if one can afford it and also will use it enough to be worth it. I wouldn't get a device as expensive just for spice (other could, who knows), but when I already had one for mj vaping and tried it with spice I was really impressed. And thrown away the machine I made just before that as it was garbage in comparison.



Yes and i think they are even better suited for this. I mean they are MADE FOR vaping concentrates of them. Using steel sponge as in machine needs sterilization to be sure etc. The pad also has better absorbtion and distribution abilities than a regular steel sponge making it slightly more effective and powerful.
They are also way more expensive than steel sponge and you would need to cut it right to fit in whatever bowl you have. Oh, you didn't say what vape are you planning to get. The vapexhale or something cheaper like 7th floor?

Wow, quick reply--thanks!

I'm looking at the Cloud, as you said that's the best. http://www.vapornation.c...ale-cloud-vaporizer.html

Should I get the VapeXhale Evolver HydraCirc 2.0? It costs an additional $250.

Cost is not an issue as long as the quality is as you say.

So trim 2 liquid pads, put one in the bottom of the chamber, add spice, then put another on top? Is that it? Any additional tips would be much appreciated

If you want to go vapexhale I would recommend a bit of wait as they are now getting out a new evolved version of the same unit. With better repairability, reliability, user comfort ad performance. Vapornation now sells the last original pre-evolution Clouds which don't have good warranty support right now. What happened is that their manufacturer stabbed them in back and even tried to sell their designs to competition. They fired them, but now they need their own manufacturing facility so this monstrosity doesn't happen to them again.

VapeXhale have been kickstarting on indiegogo.com, where it could be preordered with at least 150$ discount, but sadly that is over now. And they have got a great success - getting 300% of the funds thez needed to bring manufacturing inhouse. Now, they are doing second round of preorders here, but that is only 50$ off compared to the price at designed launch on October.

Original Clouds are not supported that well anymore. Until October when they get back on track you couldn't get that unit warrantied. They have said they will be able to replace or repair old broken Clouds, but even then it will take more time as there is less support for this now outdated model.

I would choose a package with a hydratube. It is more expensive, but a vapexhale vape without a hydratube is like... ...is like smoking out of bong without water.
Vapexhale vapes can produce powerful and fast-flowing stream of precisely and uniformly heated air. Even when the standard dry looks so big, it doesn't cool down that huge mass of heat as well as a hydratube. Moisturing vapors also makes them a lot smoother.

I will share one funny and dangerous story of an accident thatonce happened to me:
I had a loaded ELB with spice, but felt too nervous to hit it. I thought it would be interesting to try calming myselft with a tiny bit of weed. I know they are usually not a good combo, but how about a tiny ammount just to calm the pre-flight anxiety?
I have both dry mouthpiece and hydratube and I wanted to use just the mouthpiece for the tiny bowl of weed. But somehow I managed to switch these two bowls and I began hitting the spice bowl thinking its just a tiny bowl of weed!!! At first I was like "why its so much dense? It tastes funny. Oh not anymore, it begin being harsh". At this point I realised the mistake and it put me in big shock possibly triggering a mild bad-trip. Right after finishing the hit I tried to lay down, calm down and ride it off. Impossible, the shock has already set the bad track. And as soon as I laid down I began feeling really sick and with last strengh I managed to get to the toilet to puke but as soon as I got there the sickness faded and then I passed out without purge on the bathroom floor. Then woke up and was mindfucked for a min why I am on the bathroom floor until I remembered what happened.

Why have I told this story? First to warn anyone not to switch their weed nad spice bowl lol. It is probably almost as bad as if someone dosed you without you knowing it.
And secondly because this was first time I got sick from spice. Also the first time I vaped it without hydratube. But I don't know what REALLY caused it. Was it bad spice? Was it because of lack of water? Because of the hotter weed vaping temperature dialed that made it combust a little at the end of the pull? Because of the bad-trip inducing shock of realizing the mistake? I don't know I just felt it had to be said.

And an obvious warning to the end:
Using expensive vape with strong doses of spice alone is a very bad idea. For the same reason as you don't want to break your allglass two-piece GVG. These are two-piece all-glass and big! So be careful, strong and moderate doses only with a sitter holding the vape for you.

VapeXhale, for the price, an indicator of the airflow temperature would make it even more "scientific".

The Eraser has a digital one, though it is the heat element temp, not the airflow temp, but at least those come together waiting long enough. With this, I've found 150 deg C just too low and 200 too high (definitely burning), which comes close to your (skr) findings of 150 - 180 range. BTW, with what apparatus did you get notice of these numbers?

With Eraser I've found the temperature inertia of the whole glass setup too big to be very successful. I wonder how the vapexhale deals with that phenomena, their glass parts are even bigger. The only real effective remedy would be the monitoring/tuning of the actual airflow temp, while disregarding the heating element temperature.