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Purple_Dye has contacted me on this topic at the recommendation of another Nexian. We have had a couple PMs on the topic and both agree that I should post here what we discussed.

DISCLAIMER

I have been a Nexian long enough to have done the Reductionist Materialist vs. Experiential Mystic debate more than a few times. It generally is good fun and I enjoy my scientific peeps tremendously. I have a deep love of science. I simply have my own set of experiences which inform my worldview to be quite different from the accepted norm that such people take for granted. These experiences, while anecdotal to you who read this, are all the proof one could ever wish for to me.

This debate always ends with the understanding that I would be a fool not to trust my repeated and easily repeatable experiences... and that likewise, you all would be fools to simply take my word on it.

Having said this I ask that people refrain from calling me names or casting aspersions on my sanity or reasoning faculties.

_________________________________________


My perspective on this subject is that there are many roads to Hyperspace... and that our beloved spice (n-n-dmt) is clearly not the only compound that can get one there. Even the purely pharmacological among you can recognize that 5-meo, 4-ho, and a number of other tryptamines can take one to a hyperspace of their own. I will simply add here that there are, in my experience, non-pharmacological ways to get there as well.

I do not claim that my experiences are caused by endogenous production of DMT. Merely that the experiences resemble the DMT experience quite clearly.

As much as I love chemistry and find it fascinating... I come at this from the perspective of an experientialist, and a mystic one at that.

I will say here that my input on any endogenous production of DMT in the purest sense utilizing the known biochemical processes will be minimal. What I can say, though, is that I have frequently had the subjective experience of entering Hyperspace and having other recognizably DMT-esque effects without having to ingest the substance.

Many of these altered states invoked by such mystical and martial practices are clearly not revolving around DMT. In fact, a relatively small range of them scream DMT at me. But the ones that do scream DMT... scream it loud and clear... in 9.1 surround sound off an HDCD. Most of these involve use of the so called 3-rd Eye. A place curiously occupied physically by the ol' pineal gland.

And now we come to the crux of this. And certainly why other members of this forum may have pointed you to me. As I have reported here on other occasions, in my experience, any significant accumulation of energy in this 3rd Eye region is capable of giving you DMT type experiences.

At its most extreme, it is possible to feel a pulsing in the area, and one can even detect a kind of squishy thing that happens, and then (esp. when using a tongue mudra designed for this) a gush of liquid from the roof of your mouth, or even higher up sometimes... seemingly begins to flood the mouth. So much so that one is forced to swallow or spit it out. This fluid is known to the Yogis as Amrita... or sacred nectar.

It is quite something. There are things you can do with this highly charged spit which amount to different kind of swishing and swallowing things. Even before swallowing, I assume via sublingual ROA, one is clearly and cleanly projected into "peaking on Ayahuasca" level experiences which are clearly tryptamine in nature.

Now, who can say if DMT plays any part in this? And if so, how much? There are certainly a huge number of psychoactive tryptamines... and endogenous MAO inhibitors as well.

I guess at some point, a mystic will deign to profane this sacred nectar and spit it into a beaker for study. Either that, or a scientist will become proficient enough in the internal arts to manifest this ability himself. At that point, we might find out what for a soup of entheogenic tryptamines and beta-carbolines that stuff actually is.

Of course, I am guessing it is different every time. The ratios at least. The experience is subjectively different each time, so it speaks to the idea that the fluid would be different. I imagine that some masters' spit might always be entheogenic.

I suppose my conclusion here is that a properly fuctioning energetic system in concert with a properly functioning pineal gland produces entheogenic experiences as a matter of course. What the average person or scientist considers a "normal" neurochemistry... is in fact surpressed and underdeveloped to a large extent. The experience of the high is pretty well always that you are both figuratively and literally waking up natural, built-in systems to their intended use.

An additional piece of evidence for this is the fact that one can smoalk DMT in a dream and get high. Whether this is due to the physical brain recreating the experience pharmacologically is another matter. But, as a lucid dreamer, I can simply will myself to be on DMT whenever I want... from a lucid state of course.

I doubt if any of this will help in your stated goal, but there it is.

I should also mention that I have extensive experience with and have regularly used basically all of the various agents you list as being potential precursors to the endogenous DMT experience. L-Tryptophan, Melatonin, CDP Choline, GABA, B6, B12, various Racetams, Celastrus Seeds and on and on and on have long been a part of my medicine shelves. And naturally, I have used the various RIMAs that we love so well here on the Nexus. And I have gone through periods where I was also using Tribulus regularly (a MAO B inhibitor known for its androgenic and GABAergic properties).

Anyhow, I hope you find what you are looking for. I will watch your progress, and take keen interest in any headway you may make.

All the best,
HF