Although I find the idea of producing an endogenous trip romantic. I think we must look at the even hypothetical components suggested. We're suggesting blocking many enzymes which would require quiet a chemical cock-tail if it were possible or even safe to do so. From an efficiency stand-point an extraction still prevails and can be used without an inhibitor or with one(MAOI ie; peganum harmala, banisteriopsis caapi, etc).

I believe but do not know with certainty that the chemical, supplement, SAM-e also play a pivotal role in the methylation of tryptamines, this might be included for better results.

My biochemistry is exceptionally weak, although the way I understand enzymes in a lay-mens view is as follows. Enzymes have a 'capacity' or TON(Turn over number) to convert a precursor/reactant into a desired chemical. There may be physical limitations to how much DMT could theoretically be produced in vivo(in the body). So whether or not this is possible is of concern. Again over-looking safety and feasibility of all of the enzymes inhibiting the target compound from being formed to be inhibited and the enzymes to make the target compound expressing to the required amounts.

Another issue that may come up in the future would be the differences in peoples body chemistry. Meaning a ratio of chemicals that could work for one human could be far too much or far too little for another. As well as possible interactions with other pharmacueticals and supplements or diet.

Another key implement to my limmited understanding would be the IC50 values for the inhibitors successfully being inhibitted. More on this can be read about here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC50. If this is idea is to be taken seriously we must concern ourselves with not delving into the theoretical implications before having a sound theoretical understanding.

Either way, I hope some research is undertaken on this front because even if it is not possible, it is an idea which has crossed many of our minds. There's no shame in consolidating a solid theory if the reward for doing such is good enough.

you do bring forth a lot of data, but I am getting lost here...this project feels directionless and no amount of information plugged in will make it more valid.

I am not convinced the slightest that you can really take an amount of substances and increase endogenous dmt production. Never something like that has ever happened in such a scale and many a scientists still try to elucidate how multi-drug interactions work (think real life examples such as pharmaceutical cancer treatments and added supplementary medication with a view to take the edge off any side effects here...). It is hard enough to predict and model the behaviour (pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics) of a single compound, let alone a cocktail as you envisage it. The difficultly is exponentially increased and you do not even have a way for monitoring the "expected" results.

Sure it is fun to discuss about it but it is all a complete and utter mental masturbation. What do you really try to accomplish in the long run? what is your vision? surely, in our current state if you want to increase your endogenous endogenous dmt, you just have to supply yourself with exogenous dmt. Will there ever be a situation where exogenous dmt will be unavailable? if you believe so, then put your thinking onto ensuring that exogenous dmt will always be available one way or another.

Now, why don't you put your effort (because it needs effort to dig up all these data) to something more realistic? My apologies because I come across quite harsh, but being a primarily biomedical guy who deals with multiple projects as well as research grant applications, when a research proposal or idea does not sound even the slightest realistic or even borderline achievable it goes exactly where it belongs: the rubbish bin.

what would this achieve for you , are you planing to trip 24x7

also what would be common between you and a mimosa tree then ?, where are your roots ?

So you assert that there is possibility that a drug that failed in Phase 0 or Phase 1 trials because it was found to be hallucinogenic could be because it somehow involved endogenous dmt?

Sure it could, but we need a stepping stone to at least start believing in such a possibility. The best starting point would be to start investigating which drugs failed to reach the market because they were inducing hallucination of the tryptamine kind...if such a thing exists then we can speak again about such an assertion...

Anyway, you might also need to look there, as dmt is a substrate of SERT and VMAT2 transporters which clear up dmt from synapses ind move it intracellularly where it cannot (in theory) exert its psychoactive effects.

The human AADC also decarboxylates a variety of aminoacids (tryptophan to tryptamine, phenylalanine to phenethylamine, tyrosien to tyramine). Thinking that you can amp it to do you one thing, i.e. tryptophan to tryptamine pharmacologically in vivo is possibly too much to ask if not impossible at this stage...

Human INMT does make dmt as well as NMT, this has been demonstrated in vitro. Co-localisation of INMT with DMT's sigma-1 receptor in vivo suggests with confidence that it is not potentially but definitely a key component.

I also do not understand how the aldehyde dehydrogenases (ALDH isozymes) fit with your aims and why you'd need to inhibit them. And he environmental factors like meditation, diet and probiotics and how these could help what you try to achieve is so nebular I'd gladly put the least effort at it. There are so many "could"s and "couldn't"s but you cannot just go shooting in the dark, you gotta have some stepping stones to begin your journey not only towards your aims but most importantly away from the mental masturbation bits.

Finally, you may need to get deeper in the physiology and tissue distributions of teh components you aim to learn about and play with. Where is dmt produced? are there other components you aim to target? do your suggested inhibitor ever reach that tissue when ingested? Unfortunately there is too much we can assume at this stage and too little factual knowledge.

I haven't seen you mentioning total darkness/sensory deprivation, as in those "cave meditation" theorys about endogenous dmt/5meo-dmt , the pineal gland is light sensitive after all ...

I have induced endogenous DMT-like experiences on many occasions. I make ZERO claims as to whether it is dimethyltryptamine itself mediating the experience but then I also argue that you probably made this thread to reach the experience itself


1.) Actual psychedelic experience with exact modality of smoked DMT, indistinguishable from the genuine article

Technique: Iboga root bark dosed progressively over a few days, 5g total IIRC. Then wait a few weeks for levels of iboga & metabolites to go down enough to feel "normal". Then 7g syrian rue every day for two weeks powdered and capsuled up - I have a strong tolerance/acclimatisation to Rue so 4-5g would probably be enough for most.

During this whole phase, holotropic breathwork (i.e. sustained deep fast pace hyperventilation) is practiced all day every day as often as possible.

Result: One day, I lay down in bed while doing the breathwork. I proceeded to slip into the astral plane, then a vibration stirred up. At this point the metaphorical spice was smoalked and the chrysanthemum exploded into view. I shot through the chrysanthemum into a bizarre dream world. A demonic astral entity which appeared to be high status in his realm tried to jump through another astral veil into the dream but did not succeed. Dream ends some time there.



2.) Sustained endogenous psychedelic with physical modalities of DMT in terms of fluidity of motion & enhanced awareness but no visual phenomena resembling it in any way; psychedelic headspace of DMT without immersion into thoughts/loss of control, total self-inducible ego death (oh the ironing)

Technique: 3 months of fasting and continual meditation, meditating 24/7 whether asleep or awake. Seated meditation at sunrise and sunset, without fail. Break fast at night with a light meal, never filling the stomach to the point of feeling absolutely full.

At least 4L water intake per day, probably 8L on a good day or more. Endless amounts of various common but non-psychedelic herbs as tea such as tulsi, gotu kola, milk thistle (which is how I got the water in, without even really trying).

Syrian rue + caapi in tea every day, continually. Every drink involved plain water OR rue+caapi. Caapi ingested 10g at a time; harmalas built up in system. FB harmala extract also vaporised continually

Sexual energy retention & channeling through the microcosmic orbit <= Biggest factor here aside from the harmalas; I'd call this combo Jinghuasca

Iboga ingested at start of fast (<5g), harmala intake commenced 2 months in.


Key trigger: Meditating with a Niacin flush (vitamin B3) allowed me to see the air flow through the body. This was like switching on a light inside my body and actually being able to see within. Iboga allowed me to see the inside of my body as a white glow in pitch black darkness, closed eyes and blindfoled.


Mechanism: Qi Gong (Life-energy Cultivation) practiced relentlessly, yoga, deep belly breathing all day every day; what intensified the state was relaxing. The more relaxed and silent, the "higher" I would get


Result: Too long to write about. Frickin superpowers. There are Qi Gong masters walking the Earth who would read this post and go "meh, welcome to 30 years ago in my life, what is this DMT you speak of?". But well... Psuedo-telepathy (ability to 'feel' neurons in other people's brains but not read or write except to receptive people), connection to animals & plants, ability to see in IR and certain parts of the EM spectrum.

Ability to peer into the microcosm and feel every little particle doing its thang (hallmark of hyperspatial experience). Above all: controlled and sustained psychedelia, the intensity of which is directly controlled by varying the oxygen/CO2 levels in the body. Deep breathing = deep trip, light breathing = sobriety.

There is too much to write here, I did make a thread about it in the 'Looking Glass' forum which you can read here.

Negative effects: Mania, lots of it. Totally controllable but mania is something that makes you want to dive deeper into it even when you have control. Lost focus of life itself, total dissolution into emptiness. Lost weight due to not eating due to mania. Very difficult to relate to sober people though socialising was more fluid than ever. Total loss of ideas/ego altogether - ceased to function as a social/cultural individual and became a ripple of water casually not giving a fuck about anything at all. The psychedelia is not on the order of hours or minutes here, but on the order of days or weeks or even months, with all the associated complications of living in a 24/7 +++ or ++++ state according to the Shulgin scale. Despite the essence of the experience being total relaxation and cessation of fear, this became scary nearing the end which is why the experiment was terminated.


Core key inducers of experience:
Meditation 24/7
Harmala + residual iboga in system
Sexual energy channeling
Qi Gong (moving with the breath, the entire body as a single piece)

These things are what I KNOW induces that state as I have dived right back into it a few times at will. The other things mentioned just support the lifestyle.


Take from this what you will. I cannot lead you to it but I can certainly relate my own observations. I KNOW that endogenous psychedelia is trivial to induce in the sense that your math professor uses the term trivial (i.e. there exists some means of doing it but the means is something you will derive yourself or flunk your exams) but certainly I cannot say it is X or Y chemical specifically acting on any receptors. It seems like life-energy itself is what we trip balls on, whether via meditation or by smoking spice. Spice is just a key to a dam that lets a huge flood of Qi rush into the third-eye.



What I take from all this: It's ALL to do with flow of the breath. That whole wall of text can be summarised in two words: BREATHE DEEP

Also, all of this stuff is pretty mundane to experienced Chi Gong masters: http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/believeitornot

But you jump many steps ahead in hypothesising that dmt could be the culprit. This is the kind of reasoning that is mental masturbation - but please do not think that I use the term in a derogatory sense; it simply means pondering at things and connecting vague dots to make interesting, albeit nebular, hypotheses. Yeah, so many things "could be" but are they?


What statistics is this you bring forth about? To calculate the likelihood of a drug causing increase in endogenous dmt means that you know not only the sum of drugs tested but also the probability of something like that happening. I do not think that you can just plug numbers here...Evoking statistics to justify a "could be..." leap of faith does not make much sense to me.


Because it is mental masturbation my man....we really know so little and the current volume of research has not addressed many of the aspects that form your grand scheme. In this current state you will be only jumping from a vague tip from this study to another vague tip from another study...beating around the bush endlessly if you may, unless of course you are too serious about that and go on to establish yourself in the research field, in which case you'll be carving your own way to your goal.

To put it in another way, what you're trying to do is to solve a Rubik's cube which is locked in a chest which is hidden in a dark labyrinth. There is no light whatsoever, you do not know how to pick locks and you do not have the tools to pick locks either. To your only help you have a flare gun with 50 or so flares to shoot. The odds are badly against you and I'd gladly choose another fight.

Having had OBEs and having used DMT, this strikes me as incredibly unlikely.

easy don't have sex or masturbate ,

also to prevent nightfall or leaking of semen in your dreams , do the following excercise

this excercise can be done sitting , standing or whatever position

through your breath force try channeling your seminal energy upwards through your spine .. what i mean is when you breathe out pull your diagraphm really in , infact pull your ass cheeks with your energy if you can also , while breathing in don't let your ass cheeks fall or become lose , keep the tightened posture throught the excercise tightening your diaphgram , lower stomach and ass cheeks throught the excercise .... keep doing this again and again to pull the semen all the way to your brain

it takes 12 years for the semen to reach the brain once again , just like when we were children

anyways here is a set of warnings for everyone interested in semen retention :-

please this is not for everyone and can also lead to death through stupidity , when semen is retained a person becomes extra brave , hostile and also attracted to women more then ever (ofcourse the hostility is for men not women ), also the stupidity allows for the person to look into each and every passing person's eye for some macho proving bulls

when semen has been retained for a few months a person might actually become stupid enough to do dangerous stunts , fight , or make eye contact with every passing person , in such a condition a person thinks a lot and never is in the moment really , also the stupid person can sometimes run in traffic thinking freeruning is cool almost killing themselves

all what i describe is from what i gained from semen retention , embrace might have other views

however semen retention itself without any psychoactives can infact trigger weird supernatural experiences , all entheogens become more stronger while semen retention so be careful with doseages if your'e going to retain semen

anyways practice semen retention at your own risk , it leads to some heavy macho bullshit like freerunning in traffic and shit , i am not joking when i had retained my semen i was almost cracked , try it no psychoactives required ... its the shit

semen retention also makes people extremely impatient and restless , one really awseome benefit i forgot to mention is it provides perfect 4d posture to the body and what i mean by that is what you'll know when you practice it , this posture correction effect cannot be had any other way so .....goodluck

Actually no, I do not think that your efforts will be fruitless...we're very well aware that Columbus failed to reach to Indies but was (extra) lucky enough to get to the Americas.

I also think that you've only got so much to gain from a naysayer...



Here you're looking for your keys under the lamp-post (because this is where you see better) even though you might have dropped them 2 miles back when you came out of the pub....

Both of these studies you cited have to do with bacterial tryptophanases and they are of no relevance to your aims. E.coli also resides in the large intestine where little, if any nutritional absorption happens. Generally speaking, tryptophan as aminoacid is a constituent of the majority of proteins and when you eat thing that has proteins ( be it meat, vegetables, yeast etc) you get tryptophan. In fact you almost always get some tryptophan in anything you eat.

To push the argument further, you do not even need to inhibit your human tryptophanases. If you are ever able to pharmacologically force your body to make more tryptamine that usual from tryptophan, in effect you create a tryptophan depletion which in turn can shift the activity of tryptophanases to work at a slower rate? Or you can ingest more tryptophan to make for the potential loss?

Or cut down masturbation because with every loss of semen you lose proteins henceforth tryptophan?

For some reason I think that this is a MAstrubation MArch here in the Nexus.

wtf? excellent post

sperm reaching brain and making you aggressive? I kind of had my suspicions that the Nexus hosts many people that rank high above the average crazy....

I didn't know that was a hallmark of the experience! So you're saying that this posture correction is reproducible for anyone who practices it (and of course cultivates the energy)?


The energy spoken of isn't actually semen. If semen is produced, then the person has actually failed! In the east, the energy is known as Jing (sexual essence/food energy), which turns into Chi (life force/vitality) then Shen (spirit). At its endpoint it becomes a sperm or an egg but that's if it doesn't get redirected via the aforementioned pathway.


Anyway, it does cause mania when held in for long. However this is part of the growth process; when it culminates a person would abide in a magnificent clarity and calm and of course, mania would have no grip in such a state. If you want to know more, look up the 'Microcosmic orbit' and follow on from there.




The thing is OP you're looking for chemical ways to do something that people have mastered milleniums ago by just breathing and moving. I applaud your earnestness & desire to explore what could be a truly fruitful venture if you strike gold... or in this case, spice.

Naysaying is not going to be very fruitful. If research proves X,Y or Z to be physically impossible then so be it but the fact that it's complex (even almost hopelessly so) should not inhibit research. If people shied away from studying the brain because of its complexity, we would never have neuroscience.

i know its sounds crazy but that is what it is , i've quit all such practices in favour of moderation

also i am not sure about the semen reaching the brain part however once it reaches the brain you're supposed to be enlightened and in moksha having completed the energy circuit of energy back to pure concioussness

also this is utter crap and you guys know that .....

anyways apologies for derailing much

however purple dye your idea with this cocktail is really dangerous pls be careful , it would be wise to just do harmalas with some 5htp one day and harmalas with another and so on , then you can notice what effect this cocktail will truly have on your body

you need to work with only one or two substances at a time to bioassay the effect then maybe add more slowly the other substances over the course your experiments

Not only has it, but OBE effects have been induced on purpose in experiments while people were being imaged. If I am not mistaken.

You mention NDE, but Strassman never really turned up a decent evidence for DMT being linked to it did he?

He did however end up providing evidence that high dose DMT experiences were correlated with alien abduction experiences insofar as this is what he encountered at high doses and stopped his experiments to save his subjects from being totally traumatized, ergo it wasn't good for them.

Now hypothetically, say that DMT does occur in the body in decent amounts at times (questionable) and say that you somehow find a way to trigger or induce this on purpose, how will you control dose and experience so that you or others who try this do not end up being severely harmed or traumatized by the experience? It seems incredibly dangerous to do this.

I like DMT, it can be a good thing, but dose is important, as is setting, you can overdo it and you can get it wrong and put yourself and others at risk, if this endogenous approach is to be fruitful I would like there to be some concept in its development of the severe risk it entails and how to reduce harm should the method ultimately succeed.

about this link I am going to share below, I consider this highly questionable, the author is clearly a liar (easy to prove with little research) and it has a lot of BS claims and few to no references:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/doc/common%20reed.pdf


Like I said, it is BS, but maybe of interest to this thread.

As requested by the O.P. I believe that DMT can cause the brain to increase production of Brain-derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF, which contributes to its antidepressant effect experienced by myself and other users.

A Dimethyltryptamine-Forming Enzyme in Human Blood

L-Methionine and L-Tryptophan Feedings in Non-Psychotic and Schizophrenic Patients With and Without Tranylcypromine

Methionine Effects on Chronic Schizophrenics

Effects of Amino Acid Feedings in Schizophrenic Patients Treated with Iproniazid

That may explain something of the two past experiences I've described a few pages back.

I observed precisely the same thing for their duration. At the time I did not really think too far about L-tryptophan or L-Tyrosine. I had been supplementing them as part of my nootropic stack and popping it every so often when the body feels as so.

There is definitely a profound effect on lucid dreams due to melatonin synthesis and potentially pinoline and the other indole-like substances. As far as I can remember there was definitely a psychedelic tinge to life when taking L-tryptophan in combo with Ayahuasca/Rue (MAOI only). Adding an MAO-B inhibitor and L-tyrosine to the mix also made for splendid living, I felt very sharp and focused and ready and willing to do things, relaxed too. These were all taken simultaneously.

However it may have induced mania due to interaction with Noopept (30mg) in my system which I believe is very much to do with Noopept behaving much kinder in doses of 10-15mg than 30mg.

It's also intriguing that that TMS has been used to induce DMT-like experiences in people. Here's a correlation from my 'trip report' -
"Gather energy from your core. Channel it up with your hands and make an orb of air in front of your forehead. Vibrate the orb and you will notice an energy conduit opening up the third eye. When I did this, it induced intense vibrations and the carrier wave. A chrysanthemum began to open up and Calabi-Yau its way into my field of vision. I did not go further as I was standing up and did not wish to enter hyperspace and wake up on the floor."


So yes, you definitely can induce DMT-states just moving energy from your core to the third eye. This is applicable if you practice some form of energy cultivation (and what are you waiting for!). The experience is a more voidy light-filled visual modality, but it beared the exact resemblance to smoalked spice, mixed with some other hallucinogen.

When you move the energy to the third eye, there is a strong magnetic current between your hands. This magnetic current, you apply some kind of rotational/intertial momentum to and it starts pulsing and resonating, in fact the feeling of it is pretty much visually depicted as the chrysanthemum itself to your vision.

But there's a chrysanthemum of touch and fields right between your hands. The nerves fire in a very synchronised fashion, I felt my muscles relaxed to their utmost yet able to contract harder than ever, and pulsing at a very high frequency.

I'm under the impression that this neural pulsing sets up some kind of magnetic field exchange between the brain and the hands, it feels like a physical massage of the pineal gland, that's the only way to explain it and the fields genuinely do massage your brains, lighting up every single neuron they touch.



Many very interesting papers in this thread, thank you OP for directing the movement inwards to what can already be lit up inside the body itself

Mind = blown at a lot of these, this is gonna be some good reading.

Some research papers, more here at the TaoBums: http://thetaobums.com/to...es-with-qigong-masters/


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1767800
Effect of emitted bioenergy on biochemical functions of cells. Chien CH, Tsuei JJ, Lee SC, Huang YC, Wei YH.

Department of Biochemistry, National Yang-Ming Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan.

The 3-5 microns infrared spectra of the external "Qi" generated by a "Qigong" master from his palm was measured using a III-V compound semiconductor InSb detector. It was found that certain Qigong master can emit two opposite kinds of "Qi": the "facilitating" (beneficial) and "inhibiting" (destroying) "Qi". During the facilitating "Qi" emission, large amount of infrared wave were detected by a temperature rise of the air in the vicinity. When the inhibiting "Qi" was emitted, the infrared wave was absorbed from the environment resulting in a cooling of the air.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1353653
Detection of extraordinary large bio-magnetic field strength from human hand during external Qi emission.
Seto A, Kusaka C, Nakazato S, Huang WR, Sato T, Hisamitsu T, Takeshige C.

Department of Physiology, School of Medicine, Showa University, Tokyo, Japan.

It is generally accepted that more than 10(-6) gauss order magnetism was not detected in normal human condition. However, we detected 10(-3) gauss (mGauss) order bio-magnetic field strength from the palm in special persons who emitted External Qi ("Chi" or "Ki"Pleased. This detection was possible by special arranged magnetic field detection system, consisted of a pair of 2 identical coils with 80,000 turns and a high sensitivity amplifier. Each of the coils were rolled 80,000 turns accurately, and were connected in series in opposite direction, actuating as a gradiometer.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9051169
Emission of extremely strong magnetic fields from the head and whole body during oriental breathing exercises.
Hisamitsu T, Seto A, Nakazato S, Yamamoto T, Aung SK.

Department of Physiology, Showa University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan.

This article reports the result of an experiment that was designed to measure the biomagnetic field emanating from two individuals who were practising traditional Oriental Qi Gong breathing exercises. The biomagnetic field was measured with differential coils wound 80,000 turns, a magnetic needle compass and a digital electromagnetic wave detection device. It was found that an extremely strong magnetic field was emitted from the two individuals. One subject emitted a magnetic field at the level of 200-300 mT (2-3 mGauss) and the other at 0.13 mT (1.3 mGauss). In both cases, moreover, the magnetic needle compass rotated 30 degrees (this was tested 32 times). When the rotation of the needle occurred, a reproducible magnetic field of 800-1500 mT (8-15 mGauss) was indicated on the digital measuring device (this was tested 12 times). It is concluded that traditional Oriental Qi Gong breathing appears to stimulate an unusually large biomagnetic field emission.






http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11474806
Effects of QiGong on brain function.

1: Neurol Res. 2001 Jul;23(5):501-5.

Litscher G, Wenzel G, Niederwieser G, Schwarz G.

Biomedical Engineering Unit, Department of Anesthesiology and Critical Care, University of Graz, Auenbruggerplatz 29, A-8036 Graz, Austria. gerhard.litscher@kfunigraz.ac.at

QiGong is an ancient and widely practiced Chinese meditation exercise. We studied the effects of QiGong on brain function with modern neuromonitoring tools in two subjects. In a male QiGong master (extremely trained practitioner), the technique induced reproducible changes in transcranial Doppler sonography, EEG, stimulus-induced 40 Hz oscillations, and near-infrared spectroscopy findings. Similar effects were seen after the application of multimodal stimuli and when the master concentrated on intense imagined stimuli (e.g. 22.2% increase in mean blood flow velocity (vm) in the posterior cerebral artery, and a simultaneous 23.1% decrease of vm in the middle cerebral artery). Similar effects were seen in the female subject. Neuromonitoring during QiGong appears able to objectify accompanied cerebral modulations surrounding this old Chinese meditation exercise.








So essentially for a brief moment, our practictioner may have emitted a field from his body stronger than some low-end MRIs of today!