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Overlooked DMT & 5-MeO-DMT containing plants. Need Analysis. Options
 
SKA
#1 Posted : 3/11/2013 5:33:58 PM
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Scrolling through the Wikipedia page "List of Psychoactive plants" I found a number
of plants claimed to contain DMT & 5-MeO-DMT who's names I've never seen mentioned
around here or on erowid, where I used to get my drug-education from before it got
outdated, capitalistic & misleading.

I really think these plants deserve more analysis. Most of them have only vague,
questionable & hard to confirm claims of DMT content. Often not even the
percentage of DMT or 5MeO is specified. But in some cases some of these mostly
unknown, overlooked plants contain quite decent amounts of DMT. Some of them
even contain decent amounts of 5-MeO with only traces of DMT: Mostly 5 Meo
containing plants; Isn't that what many of us have been dreaming of? Smile

Also My hopes are that among these overlooked, but spicey plants is one(or more)
that contains a decent %-age of DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT in it's Foliage, grows quite
fast & can thrive in Northern Hemisphere climates with long, dark & cold winters.
That would be the golden spice plant I suppose.



Well here's a short list of a few overlooked, spicey plants:

Wikipedia wrote:
Dutaillyea drupacea
> 0.4% 5-MeO-DMT in leaves[33][53]

Source # 33: http://wiki.magiskamolek...4xter,_svampar_och_djur (Swedish)

Wikipedia wrote:
Testulea gabonensis:
0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, small quantities of DMT,[55] DMT in bark and root bark,[53] NMT
Source # 55: http://www.erowid.org/ps...s/faqs_tryptamine.shtml
Link to Source # 53 doesn't work.

Wikipedia wrote:
Punica granatum
"DMT in root cortex;"[63] The dried stem and root bark of the tree contain about 0.4-0.9% alkaloids.[72]


Wikipedia wrote:
Phyllodium pulchellum(syn. Desmodium pulchellum)
0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, small quantities of DMT[55] DMT (dominates in seedlings and young plants), 5-MEO-DMT (dominates in mature plant), whole plant, roots, stems, leaves, flowers[53]


Wikipedia wrote:
Dutaillyea oreophila,
5-MeO-DMT in leaves


Wikipedia wrote:
Tetradium ruticarpum(syn. Evodia rutaecarpa)
5-MeO-DMT in leaves,[53] fruit and roots
Link of source # 53 doesn't work.

Then there are of course the Delospermas that need more research too, as well as
Vepris Ampody. But those are already being looked into so I'll leave them out.


Quite a bunch of plants in need of more chemical analysis & confirmation.
But have a look at this list of plants & their (acclaimed) tryptamine contents:
http://wiki.magiskamolek...4xter,_svampar_och_djur
It's the same Swedish link as from Wikipedia source # 33 as I mentioned above.
If you have google translate you can read it. It's an amazing list with much
more plants which I've never heard of before as DMT or 5-MeO containing plants.

All of these need more analysis.

Nen, Gibran? Whoever else have been doing and sharing Gas Chromatography analysis
of various plant extracts.... Feel challenged Smile
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
Vodsel
#2 Posted : 3/11/2013 6:03:57 PM

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You can find information about some of these here. For instance,

SKA wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:
Vepris ampody
Up to 0.2% DMT in leaves and branches


I opened a workspace for V. Ampody, including the source research paper. The main hurdle for analysis is obtaining plant material, but we're working on it.

Edit: @SKA, you turned up there already Smile
 
pinkoyd
#3 Posted : 3/11/2013 6:30:32 PM

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There's a thread around here on Vepris ampody, we just need to find some one in Madagascar to send us some seeds.

Desmodium pulchellum is fairly well known and used to be available commercially in the US. Don't know if it still is.

Edit: Oops Vodsel beat me to it...
I already asked Alice.

 
SKA
#4 Posted : 3/11/2013 7:08:36 PM
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Sorry. I totally forgot about that Vepris Ampody topic, so i scrapped V.Ampody
off of the list.

I'm not familiar with Desmodium Pulchellum. Wikipedia has almost nothing to say about it.
But being a Shrub with a 5-MeO-DMT content of up to 0.2% it's very interresting.
Since you, pinkoyd, said Desmodium Pulchellum is so common in the US...Do you know if it's
a plant that could survive long, dark & cold winters(indoors protected from frost) and
short unpredictable summers? Or would it need growlights to survive?


Then what remains is to gather more information about these plants:

Dutaillyea drupacea
> 0.4% 5-MeO-DMT in leaves[33][53]
Needs botanical/Cultivation information & Chemical Analysis.

Testulea gabonensis:
0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, small quantities of DMT,[55] DMT in bark and root bark,[53] NMT
Needs botanical/Cultivation information & Chemical Analysis.

Punica granatum : Pommegranate Very happy
"DMT in root cortex;"[63] The dried stem and root bark of the tree contain about 0.4-0.9% alkaloids.[72]
Needs Chemical Analysis.



If you, Vodsel, or anyone else who can perform GC & other chemical analysises, want to go and do a Chemical
Analysis on Punica Granatum there is 1 part of the plant that is aware in most any grocery store on this
planet: The Fruit. Pommegranates are delicious to eat, but I'm getting more & more curious to find out the
Chemical composition of the fruit's leathery rind & the pale-yellow membranes that separate the fleshy seeds
into compartments. If you have a Gas Chromatographer at your disposal, dry, grind and Chem Analyse some
Pommegranate rinds and let us know what you find. Smile

I'm almost kind of tempted to buy 5 Pommegranates, enjoy their fleshy seeds, dry and powderise the rinds.
Then buy some NaOH granules & a bottle of Naphtha and just perform a simple STB on those rinds.
Then separate the Naphtha and put it in the freezer to see if anything will precipitate out. Smile

If you are so blessed to live in a sunny location where Pommegranate trees grow wild, then you could try and
sample some root and stem bark for Chem analysis too.
 
pinkoyd
#5 Posted : 3/11/2013 7:42:03 PM

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I didn't say it was common, just that it was fairly well known, i.e. well studied from a chemical point of view. I know some people were working on it in the mid to late 90s, but don't know the results of that research or whether it is suitable for extraction or an aya analog. Seeds used to be available from ...of the jungle back in the day. There may be some vendors who offer seeds, but since I am self sufficient with P. viridis I haven't felt the need to look any further.

Another one that IS common in the US but has not received a lot of attention is Lespedeza.

Digitaria really bears looking into and I think there are some people here working on it. If it pans out that would really be something. I mean can you imagine? It's CRABGRASS for goodness sake!

Wikipedia isn't always (or even often) the best source for information. Not everything is found on the internet (yet.) Check out Ott's Pharmacotheon or Voogelbreinder's Garden of Eden as good standard references.

And pomegranate? Totally cool find. Do that extraction and let us know!Big grin
I already asked Alice.

 
jamie
#6 Posted : 3/11/2013 8:17:04 PM

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The pommegranate thing is something has been brought up over the years here more than once..that claim seems to go back to Ratsch and he never cited a source for it..so noone seems to know where that claim is even comming from.

I have been planning to grow some seeds out for a while now though..There are some people growing pommegranates outdoors here in Vancouver and they seem to survive the winter okay..I have heard of some near me that are 4 or 5 meters tall now and one guy that got them to fruit..so if the tree does contain DMT that would be nice.

Digitaria is one that people should look into..Im doing a digitaria extractin righ tnow.
 
AlbertKLloyd
#7 Posted : 3/11/2013 9:03:09 PM

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jamie wrote:
The pommegranate thing is something has been brought up over the years here more than once..that claim seems to go back to Ratsch

Normally I would dismiss Ratsch because he tends to lack credibility as a scholar and researcher, (it seems like you could just make up anything, tell him and he would publish it) but in this case I believe there is something to this. I would likely look into culturing dwarf pomegranate.
 
Vodsel
#8 Posted : 3/11/2013 9:32:07 PM

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I don't have Rätsch 1992 Dictionary to check the actual reference to pomegranate. Anyone does?

There have been reports of (very small) amounts of monoamines in pomegranate juice, including tryptamine. But that reference of 0,4-0,9% alkaloids can be misleading. Pelletierine and other piperidine alkaloids have been known and isolated from pomegranate since long, mostly due to remarkable antihelmintic properties (they kill tapeworms) so I wouldn't expect to find a significant yield of tryptamines unless strong variability factors come into play, or the location of the indolamines is very specific. Pomegranate has been subject to a bunch of research work due to antioxidant, antimicrobial properties among others, so finding a significant amount of indole psychoactive alkaloids sounds unlikely imo.

Certainly GC-MS could be interesting for this, and for many other botanicals as well... but getting access to that equipment is not easy and one would need more than an obscure reference and some hunches.
 
Ambivalent
#9 Posted : 3/12/2013 12:38:03 PM

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i am also very much interested in the pomegranate tree, as it grows abundantly here in my city. i have gathered some material from the root cortex of a tree, 150 g or so. i think i will give it a go.
 
Infundibulum
#10 Posted : 3/12/2013 4:09:23 PM

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Thanks SKA, that was indeed food for thought very nice to have a reminder of all these "lesser" plants. I did a further search to verify the sources and citations of these claims, and things do not look as bright... Welcome to the world of poor and circular citations of the internet. To begin with, reference [53] from from wikipedia is Ott's Ayahuasca Analogues book. Now, how do the Wikipedia claims stand up to the sources?


Wikipedia wrote:
Dutaillyea drupacea
> 0.4% 5-MeO-DMT in leaves[33][53]

I checked the Swedish webpage [33] and they do not quote % of 5meo in Dutaillyea drupacea. Erowid reports a 0.04% of 5-MeO-DMT was reported to be the sole alkaloid isolated from dry bark, as found by Pachter et al. 1959. Ref [53] says NOTHING about tryptamines in this plant.

Wikipedia wrote:
Testulea gabonensis:
0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, small quantities of DMT,[55] DMT in bark and root bark,[53] NMT

The Erowid link [55] says that it contains DMT and cites Leboeuf, M. et al., 1977. It says nothing about 5meo. Reference [53] does not even mention this plant!


Wikipedia wrote:
Punica granatum
"DMT in root cortex;"[63] The dried stem and root bark of the tree contain about 0.4-0.9% alkaloids.[72]

References could not be verified here either as links did not lead anywhere...

Wikipedia wrote:
Phyllodium pulchellum(syn. Desmodium pulchellum)0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, small quantities of DMT[55] DMT (dominates in seedlings and young plants), 5-MEO-DMT (dominates in mature plant), whole plant, roots, stems, leaves, flowers[53]

Only the Erowid reference, [55], provides information to the published study from Ghosal, S. & Mukherjee, B. 1966.Reference [53] does not even mention this plant!

Wikipedia wrote:
Dutaillyea oreophila,
5-MeO-DMT in leaves

Not really referenced at all - Wikipedia references do not lead to original sources.

Wikipedia wrote:
Tetradium ruticarpum(syn. Evodia rutaecarpa)
5-MeO-DMT in leaves,[53] fruit and roots

Reference [53] does not even mention this plant!


So to recap:

1. One study (Pachter et al. 1959. ) reports 0.04% 5meo in Dutaillyea drupacea.

2. One study (Leboeuf, M. et al., 1977) finds DMT in Testulea gabonensis

3. No official study says anything about Punica granatum and the references re dmt are cyclic.

4. One study (Ghosal, S. & Mukherjee, B. 1966.) says 0.2% of 5meo in Phyllodium pulchellum

5. No official study says anything about Dutaillyea oreophila

6. No official study says anything about Tetradium ruticarpum

7. The Swedish list is so poorly referenced I do not know whether we can trust it at all at this point...

8. The reference [53] from wikipedia is Ott's Ayahuasca Analogues book and it says NOTHING about Dutaillyea drupacea, Testulea gabonensis, Punica granatum, Phyllodium pulchellum, Dutaillyea oreophila and Tetradium ruticarpum.

Generally, for 5meo, only Phyllodium pulchellum and to a lesser extent Dutaillyea drupacea have verifiable sources of claims form the wikipedia list...I believe that all these poor and cyclic citations should bring a bold warning: CHECK SOURCES VERY CAREFULLY; as my university mentor used to say, four hours in the library can save you 4 months of work...and I would personally do more in-depth searching around before jumping and doing extractions based on what a poorly cited wikipedia article says...



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AlbertKLloyd
#11 Posted : 3/12/2013 4:38:43 PM

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Quote:
.I believe that all these poor and cyclic citations should bring a bold warning: CHECK SOURCES VERY CAREFULLY;


Amen, but seriously how much bad info traces right back to Ott and Rätsch publishing unproven speculative claims? An awful lot of it...
 
LivingInAwe
#12 Posted : 3/15/2013 9:29:01 PM
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I was so excited when I saw that Punica granatum (Pomegranate) had DMT, since it is so easy to grow. My elation soon turned to disappointment when my friend analyzed a methanol extract of some stem bark. Not a trace of DMT or 5-MeO-DMT but a lot of crud that would make extraction difficult anyways (this was verified by an attempt at an acid/base extraction using acetic acid, calcium hydroxide, and naptha that caused a semi-solid "solvent" layer of floating sludge that would not break down with heat or could not even be centrifuged out). It is possible that the root bark of Punica granatum may be a totally different story, but my friend is not too keen on digging up his plant to research that possibility at this time.
But, KEEP LOOKING: I am sure that only a small percentage of plants have even been tested for DMT; It wasn't until just recently that Acacia Confusa was discovered. And PLEASE do not accept my finding as rule: Pomegranate may produce its DMT at a different time of the year or different varieties, roots only, etc. (the plant that was used for analysis had just begun to produce it's spring leaves).
 
Ambivalent
#13 Posted : 3/16/2013 1:36:02 AM

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^
i can second your friends testing. i was just evaporating naphtha fractions from a/b extraction on punica granatum roots and root bark.they yielded nothing.i will try with xylene too, but i am doubtful. i did maybe 3 or 4 defats before adding base, because the liquid was very viscous from fats or oils...otherwise after the defat (with xylene) the separation was fine.
 
 
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