Wanna talk about appropriation ?

Animism is a religious belief that is incorporated into many religions. It is not a "stand-alone" religion. In fact, you could probably make the argument that, as animism is the sense that everything is imbued with spirit, claiming to be animistic is really no different than claiming to be spiritual.

So, you're well read enough/educated enough to put a nice term on what many people are expressing...ok...so what? Animism isn't a religion unto itself, it's a piece of many religions...just like spirituality.

How about cutting some slack to people who, for whatever reason, lack the knowledge or ability to use the word you are using to get at a nearly (if not entirely) identical concept?

Who is this strange and confused man to tell others that their ideas offer "no positive exposition".. whatever that means. Is he in any position to decide if the thoughts of another are good or bad? The only thing I see him doing is throw the word "new age" and "spiritual" around a bunch of times, and then ranting about it based on various false assumptions. What does "spiritual" and "new age" really mean? It appears as if the writer has absolutely no clue about this at all, and thus concludes that it must be bad.



So is he really saying, that one must either be a complete materialist, or that one must believe in Christianity or a similar religion and be a God-fearing being? I say again, who is this man to tell others what they have to be? He should research what "new age" and "spiritual" really means, instead of writing a rant based on his false world of assumptions, where everyone sees these things in the exact bad light as the author does.

The world is not black and white. It does not consist of "fear god" or "pray to materials". Both of those are in my opinion ultimately incorrect points of view, and whether the author likes it or not, he will have to deal with it.

There is a giant logical fallacy in this article, which can be summed up as following "There exists only A and B. The alphabet does not have other letters, and there are no other forms of language. Anyone who does not completely choose for either A or B is unwilling to take any position at all, and for some reason these people really annoy me, because I like to believe that the entire universe is confined to only having the options A and B".

agreed. but there is no difference between religious or spiritual. that was the whole point of this thread and article. I'm tired of people bashing religion but then saying they're spiritual.

you know what. this isn't going to get us anywhere. I apologize for making this thread.

Can you explain how claiming to be animistic is different than claiming to spiritual?

Being religious and being spiritual aren't the same thing imo. You don't need to be part of a religion to be spiritual.

it's no different from claiming to be religious either. that's my point, they're one in the same in my eyes. for people to bash religion and say they're spiritual just seems too ironic to me.

"Animism (from Latin anima "soul, life"[1] is the religious worldview that natural physical entities—including animals, plants, and often even inanimate objects or phenomena—possess a spiritual essence.[2][3"

Religion and Spiritual are different words. People who say they are "spiritual" use this word because if they say they are religious, they are associated with a religion such as Christianity. "Spiritual" can also imply certainty, instead of not knowing for sure (religion). Of course it is debatable whether or not certain spiritual beliefs are certainties, but that is not the point, the point is that those who use the word feel that it is so.

You might essentially say that being spiritual is a form of religion, but the word religion has been twisted and associated nearly exclusively with the religions like Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc. This is not what spiritual people associate themselves with at all in most cases. If you ask any random person on the street what they think when you say "religion", most people will say either Christianity, Judaism or Islam. If a "spiritual" person tells someone he/she is "religious", said spiritual person will immediately become associated with a belief system the spiritual person does not practice at all.



Let's make it as simple as I can.

We have religion 1 and religion 2.

Religion 1 is responsible for a lot of hate and negativity, at least according to followers of religion 2. Is it not logical that followers of religion 2 do not want to be associated with religion 1 at all, and that they do not want people to falsely assume they have anything to do with religion 1? Thus logically, they create a new word for their ideas to distance themselves from religion 1.

You likely need to spend some time in a real classroom studying the subject.

How can you even define religion when all the scholars putting forth definitions can't even agree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Etymology

I have had multiple definitions from various people..you can have 2 professors teaching anthropology that will give you different definitions.

Many of them would NOT agree with this thread.

If I claim to not be religious that thats what I mean, actaully. These semantic words games are getting old. You seek to simplify something that cannot be simplified this way and in turn end up making straw man arguements. I have no need, desire or obligation to lay claim to a term that is rooted in such obscurity and ambiguity.

I find it weird that you would come here to tell others what they are.

There are also indigenous peoples who dont lay any claim to the term. When asked they will say no, they dont have religion because they dont need that sort of thing. Who are you to come here and tell them any different just becasue some guy on TV who likely never even looked into what he talking about says so?

This argument is going in circles because of semantics. Let me frame it in my experience for you. I was raised Jewish. I no longer go to temple, and I don't really subscribe to those beliefs anymore. In that sense, I am not religious. Because my interaction with the divine has shifted to that of a more direct experience, I consider myself to be spiritual. You could probably just as easily call my "spiritual" experiences "religious" experiences, but it wouldn't change the difference from the fact that they have little to nothing to do with organized religion as I've experienced it, and that it would be a hollow argument based on the semantics of which word you choose to use. These terms are ambiguous, and this argument will go no where.

Valura,

"Religion is a collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values."

the idea that you're spiritual, but not religious, doesn't make sense to me.

"i've been reading about animism for some time now. animism is considered religious. I don't go around telling people I'm spiritual, but not religious. "

Animism is definatly, DEFINATLY NOT concidered religion by all anthropologists. I dont know why you are making absolute claims like this. This all depends on whos work you are reading. There are some who will agree and some who will disagree completely.

SnozzleBerry and universe cannon have transcended the false dichotomy you are so zealously promoting haeratic. In time you will break through this limited boundary in which you are trapped. Keep engaging, for that is YOUR spiritual quest. I am not smug or narcissitic, so before you dismiss what I am saying just TRY to "think out of the box" which represents your present confinement.

It is clear to me because I used to live in that box, and it was a hard struggle to escape. I sympathize with your plight. Only you can unshackle yourself, so keep working at it. It does little to improve your situation by picking fights with the world. But this is a good place to find the clues you need. Please open your mind to a BIGGER God than the one (or those) to which you pledge fealty.

You are on the road less traveled, so feel free to engage me. I can understand your frustration. For once, just pretend to accept that you do not know everything there is to know. Some have tread the same path as you. Just open your mind to the possibility that you can actually learn from others. Believe me, it is as if a tremendous weight has been shed from your shoulder,

Learn to Shrug, Atlas.

I'm seeing a trend, Mr. Pot-Stirrer.

Maybe you should wait for the mods to finish discussing guidelines before posting again on this topic...

The dictionary term for spiritual, note that the word religion isn't mentioned

spir·it·u·al [spir-i-choo-uh l] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.
2.
of or pertaining to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature: a spiritual approach to life.
3.
closely akin in interests, attitude, outlook, etc.: the professor's spiritual heir in linguistics.
4.
of or pertaining to spirits or to spiritualists; supernatural or spiritualistic.
5.
characterized by or suggesting predominance of the spirit; ethereal or delicately refined: She is more of a spiritual type than her rowdy brother.

People who claim to be spiritual and not religious are often against *organized religion* rather than the idea of religiosity in general.

thanks for that spangles. I apologize if I'm coming off that way. It just urks me when someone says they're "spiritual, but not religious."

haeratic - It is amazing to me that you've been around here for two weeks now and have been at the center of every ugly, divisive controversy since then. If you can't resist the urge to proselytize and argue religion vs. spirituality (or religion vs. anything... or how to properly argue religion... or what is or is not appropriate to criticize about one's religion...), you are going to be leaving.

you're right. i apologize.

Mate...this quite a lot of times your stating something is your petpeev, or urks you and you lash out.
Brother please you need to keep this in check if you wish to be part of this community.

If you have these pet peeves and urks and cant keep them in check its best to just not enter the rooms where these things are likely.

Not trying to start round 3 with you just trying to help you out.