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Another way of partitioning 1° and 2° amines from 3° amines Options
 
Elrik
#61 Posted : 8/14/2018 5:53:51 AM

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Well this was a surprise, has anyone heard of ACRB alkaloid being 80+% NMT!?
I did the tek as per sister, pH's were right at every step, did everything I could to catch every mg of surviving amine [I'm pretty good at avoiding loss] and from 2.31 grams of ACRB alkaloid I got 398 mg of amine after the transacetylation.
My kilo of ACRB is horrible Laughing
I'm actually relieved, I have been taking over 200 mg ACRB alkaloid with THH and harmine for a strong dose yet the visuals were never equal to what others described, assuming it was half DMT I was thinking I was a DMT hardhead of some kind but I've apparently only been getting 35 mg of actual DMT. Whopping strong body high and emotional trip with visuals only in the dark at the height of the peak is apparently what 175 mg NMT and 35 MG DMT does to me.
I suspect this refined product will prove a quite different trip, I'll start at 50 mg Smile
Now to grow DMT plants, because suddenly my remaining ACRB will only last 5 years.
 

Have doubts about your samples? Get trusted results by having your samples tested.
 
leratiomyces
#62 Posted : 8/14/2018 10:29:10 AM
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Interesting elrik, can't comment about results with acrb as I observed the procedure with obtusifolia.
On my to do list is an efficiency experiment - mix known mass of pure dmt with pure nmt, then run it through the acetylation procedure and observe the recovery of dmt.
When time permits, it will happen.
By the way, the procedure I observed was slightly different to that written up in this thread.
Happy to dig up notes if you like.
 
Elrik
#63 Posted : 8/17/2018 11:53:12 PM

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Sure, it would be interesting to see your notes Smile
My only trivial modification was to use 99% isopropanol in place of 95% ethanol.
 
leratiomyces
#64 Posted : 8/18/2018 5:55:35 AM
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Mixed alkaloids from an obtusifolia extraction (5.7g) were analysed by tlc to reveal 2 spots corresponding to DMT and NMT. This mixture had already been "enriched" in NMT.

A brand of aspirin was chosen that contained minimal fillers in the tablets. Tablets containing 4.8g aspirin were crushed and stirred in hot "methylated spirits" (Australian for denatured ethanol). After heating and stirring for 5 min, the mixture was filtered to remove fillers. Into the clear, concentrated, resulting solution (which begins to crystallise fairly quickly) were added the 5.7g of alkaloids dissolved in a small volume of methylated spirits. This mixture was refluxed for 2 minutes and heated near boiling for a further 10 minutes.

The solution was allowed to evaporate outdoors at room temperature until it was a thick oil of 5-10ml volume. Tlc at this point reveals the complete consumption of NMT. A new spot forms that has a higher Rf than the DMT (presumably N-acetyl NMT). To the remaining oil was added 150ml white vinegar with plenty of stirring. The mixture was extracted with xylene (3 x 50ml) and the organic phase discarded.

The aqueous solution was basified with 25% NaOH to pH 14 and then extracted with xylene (3 x 50ml). The organic extracted were combined and allowed to evaporate at room temp, outdoors, until a constant weight was achieved. The thick dark residue was heated and stirred with 200ml hot hexane and the hot hexane decanted from the dark insolubles (small amount).

The hot hexane was allowed to come back to room temp, then placed in the freezer for 72h. White crystals had formed as well as a beige putty. The hexane was decanted and the solids allowed to dry in front of a fan. The white solids and beige putty were kept separate and checked by tlc - both showed one spot only, corresponding to DMT. Total weight of solids was 2.6g. The putty was not recrystallised further, but kept as is.

Key points
Use a large molar excess of aspirin (in this example it is probably 2:1).
Try to evaporate as much ethanol as possible after the acetylation, before adding acid.
A standardised experiment (as I described in my last post) will reveal the efficiency of this procedure.

Hope this helps.
 
Elrik
#65 Posted : 8/18/2018 6:49:10 AM

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I find it interesting that you evaporated the alcohol prior to adding aqueous acid.
In my run, after reacting and cooling I added twice its volume of 0.5% acetic acid and after extracting out the AcNMT I put the xylene contaminated aqueous fraction in a warm place with a little fan on it prior to doing warm pulls with octane. Alcohol evaporated too and a bunch of salicylic acid crashed out as goo. I added in a step to extract the brown goo separately and titrate it to confirm it only had a few mg of alkaloid. But my point is, didnt concentrating the DMT salts, AcNMT, aspirin, salicylic acid solution to an 'oil' produce a mass that turned to a gummy or crystaly mess when trying to mix with aqueous acid?
If I were to re-do my run tonight I'd skip the octane pulls to prevent alcohol loss and salicylic acid goo precip at that stage and just use xylene and perhaps clean up the DMT more after that. Perhaps going to an octane freeze precip after the aspirin/salicylic acid was gone.
One thing I didnt really understand was the need for acid when adding water. Using a stoichiometric excess of aspirin would ensure more than enough acid to react with all alkaloid and the aspirin DMT salt and DMT salicylate should be very soluble in water. I dont imagine vinegar would hurt anything, which is why I included it, I just cant quite see the purpose.
Unless its simply a safety measure just in case we didn't add enough aspirin Laughing
 
leratiomyces
#66 Posted : 8/18/2018 9:27:28 AM
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Yeah you're right. Acetic acid is probably not needed.
The most favoured species at the end of the reaction is dmt salicylate, according to pka's.
And I added more than enough aspirin to ensure I had ample acid.

With regard to the viscous oil after evaporation of ethanol. Acetic acid is added to the oil, followed by 50ml xylene, and the mixture is stirred very well, then transferred to the sep funnel and shaken very well. Anything that doesn't dissolve is not wanted. I can't remember if there were insolubles at this stage. If there were, I would have worked around them.

Obviously I'm getting rid of the ethanol early on to prevent small losses via dmt salts being soluble in ethanol and moving with ethanol, to the organic phase. Hope that makes sense.
 
moyshekapoyre
#67 Posted : 9/5/2019 1:14:09 AM
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This all seems to be way more work than necessary. I am able to quickly separate DMT and NMT by simply dissolving the mix into Everclear at room temperature. It separates on its own rapidly, but for more complete separation, simply leave it in the fridge for a day. Methanol also works but one must add some water (30-50% seems fine, depends on DMT to NMT ratio you are expecting). I think IPA should also work.

The DMT layer is white. The rest is NMT (generally yellow). I've confirmed this works via TLC as well as bio-assay.

The only sort of laborious part is dehydrating the stuff due to the water content. Also, a tiny little bit of NMT contam in DMT will dramatically alter the effects, so one must be very careful in how they siphon off the DMT liquid. Blow some bubbles out of your syringe before sucking up the DMT, so you don't get any NMT in there.

Don't mix your solution. You should avoid agitation.
 
leratiomyces
#68 Posted : 9/5/2019 8:49:26 AM
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moyshekapoyre wrote:
This all seems to be way more work than necessary. I am able to quickly separate DMT and NMT by simply dissolving the mix into Everclear at room temperature. It separates on its own rapidly, but for more complete separation, simply leave it in the fridge for a day. Methanol also works but one must add some water (30-50% seems fine, depends on DMT to NMT ratio you are expecting). I think IPA should also work.

The DMT layer is white. The rest is NMT (generally yellow). I've confirmed this works via TLC as well as bio-assay.

The only sort of laborious part is dehydrating the stuff due to the water content. Also, a tiny little bit of NMT contam in DMT will dramatically alter the effects, so one must be very careful in how they siphon off the DMT liquid. Blow some bubbles out of your syringe before sucking up the DMT, so you don't get any NMT in there.

Don't mix your solution. You should avoid agitation.



That's fantastic.
Do you mind writing up a procedure with details?
 
moyshekapoyre
#69 Posted : 9/6/2019 9:31:42 AM
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Forgive me but I'm not really sure what details I left out... it is extraordinarily simple. Not sure it can even be called a tek.
 
leratiomyces
#70 Posted : 9/6/2019 1:01:16 PM
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Is your starting mixture a solid or oil?
What is the percentage of nmt in your starting mixture, roughly?
Was mass of mixture did you start with?
What volume of everclear was this mixture placed in?
Was the solution then stirred, shaken or neither?
How long was the solution left for before separating?
Are you suggesting that dmt dissolves in ever clear, while the nmt does not?
If so, is the remaining nmt a solid or oil?
After separating and evaporating your everclear, what mass of dmt did you obtain, relative to the mass of the starting mixture?

Do you happen to have your tlc plates of before and after separation?
I would love to see them.
 
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