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Another way of partitioning 1° and 2° amines from 3° amines Options
 
Dr_Sister
#1 Posted : 11/28/2012 6:40:27 PM

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Sister has received some requests for a tek to separate NMT and DMT.

Sister should also mention that her experiments using aspirin where inspired by a thread over at Science madness (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=11706#pid149377) where Jor was acetylating aniline with asprin. However, this was some time ago and it received little attention at the time. There are also many references in literature for the in-vivo acetylation of prostaglandin synthase with acetylsalicylic acid. This is also very handy technique to remove 1° and 2° amines from mixtures of 3° amines. (In other words a way to remove NMT from a mixture of NMT and DMT)


This method is simple, clean and fast.

Dissolve a 1.2 molar XS of aspirin1 (relative to tryptamine) in the minimum amount of boiling EtOH (other alcohols like IPA or MeOH will also work, but solubilities will vary). Some of the binders will not go into solution, but it doesn’t matter, they will not affect the rxn (you can decant the solution from the undissolved binders if it bothers you). Dissolve your tryptamines in the minimum amount of boiling alcohol. Remove from heat and let both stand long enough to cool by 1-2 degrees, then combine the two mixtures and heat to boiling again for 1-2 minutes. Remove from heat and allow to cool to room temp. Acidify the mixture with 2X volume of acidic H2O and wash 3X with a suitable non polar solvent (DCM, Toluene, Xylene, Ether, Ethyl Acetate but NOT Naptha). This removes the acetylated NMT from the mixture. You can also back extract the NP washes with a little acidic H2O if you want to be meticulous. Discard the NP washs or distill to recycle the solvent. Take the acidic post reaction mixture (and acidic back extraction) and slowly basify with 25% NaOH. Extract it with the non polar solvent of your choice (Naptha can be used here) and evaporate/distill your solvent or freeze precipitate as usual to yield only the 3° amines (nn-dmt).

That’s it, you’re done. Cool



1. acetylsalicylic acid 180 g/mol, tryptamine 160 g/mol

2. You can follow this RXN on TLC. Using a 3/1 EtAcO/MeOH, tryptamine will have an rf of 0.1 – 0.2, NMT 0.3, while your n-acetyl tryptamine will have an rf of 0.6 - 0.7.
 

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alicedee25
#2 Posted : 11/28/2012 7:50:41 PM

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Thanks for this, i'll give it a try, and post my results soon.

sciencemadnessThumbs up
 
foaf
#3 Posted : 12/10/2012 5:06:07 PM

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how do you determine the minimum amount of say, ethanol, to dissolve the asprin in when the binders dont dissolve? any estimates. and most non polars will pull some of the ethanol out of the ethanol/acidic water solution, but thats appearently OK and doesnt take much or any significant nndmt with it?

thanks... Im doing some acacia soon and want to play with this and the formaldehyde conversion too.

edit add- ok, got unlazy. asprin is soluble in ethanol to about 80 mg/ml
 
Dr_Sister
#4 Posted : 12/10/2012 11:05:17 PM

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The binders look a little different than the aspirin. Its hard to describe, binders have almost a fluffy appearance vs a granular appearance for the asprin, but they are quite apparent when actually doing it. It won't be a big problem if you use more EtOH than necessary. It will increase the volumes of subsequent steps.

The ethanol will remain in the aqueous layer during the washes. Thats why 2X the volume of H2O is used. If less H2O were added it would be more of a problem. Ethyl acetate should be the only exception, pulling a little ethanol, and also leaving a little ethyl acetate behind in the aqueous layer.
 
nen888
#5 Posted : 5/1/2013 4:31:27 AM
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..i personally very much enjoy NMT..however..
for all the people who keep asking a similar question, i've bumped this thread by Sister..

to me, it's useful for getting to know NMT's properties on it's own..Smile
and for those who don't know, NMT seems to extend the duration of DMT in combination..

great chemistry thanks Dr_Sister..
.
 
InMotion
#6 Posted : 5/24/2013 2:13:33 AM
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I feel as though this thread should be stickied or wiki'd.

I had a run in with this on a different substrate(not DMT/NMT). Don't use the pink coated aspirins the coating is no good! Makes work up harder.

The method is sound and has been repeated on a variety of substrates.

I would also like to expand on this a bit more and say quaternary amines should someone run into them can generally be easily separated from tertiary amines with a plug of silica gel and a good choice of solvents.

Cheers!
 
Parshvik Chintan
#7 Posted : 5/24/2013 6:49:19 AM

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InMotion wrote:
I feel as though this thread should be stickied or wiki'd.

or both.
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CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
 
Infundibulum
#8 Posted : 5/24/2013 7:26:04 AM

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you're all right, stickied!


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
DonPeyote
#9 Posted : 7/28/2013 5:09:56 AM

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Concerning Acacia Confusa and the NMT/DMT 'Problem'

Has anyone tried bubbling Co2 gas in the non-polar solvent, after the last step of an ACRB A/B extraction, as described in U.S. Patent 3,131,221 "Separation & Purification of Fatty Acid Amines" ??

After completing my first Acacia Confusa Rootbark extraction, and predictably winding up with an NMT/DMT 'Gel', I am very curious if anyone has worked this concept to success.

I'd love to hear about the trials and tribulations of those who have attempted this procedure, as this seems like a relatively easy work around.

What am I missing?

A pressure vessel could be an issue. Hopefully, the reaction will take place at Room Temp and Atmospheric pressure. If not then somewhere below 100F, and SAFELY BEFORE 50 PSIG.

But who knows?

Thanks, DonPeyote
 
nen888
#10 Posted : 7/28/2013 6:13:38 AM
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..i don't want to seem repetitive, but..i don't get why you'd want to separate DMT/NMT, unless you're interested in what NMT does on it's own..or curious about chemistry techniques in general..in which case, fair enough..

the NMT extends and modulates the DMT..and slows the onset allowing more time to prepare for the 'space'..

just put 2 to 3 times more extract in implement of choice..Confused

.

the search to 'purify' smacks of the over-refined pharmaceutical world..
why not just accept the plant how it is? did mother nature get it wrong?
maybe it's time to try to 'work' in a different way..
if one just needs pure DMT to 'get off' i suggest one is, not addicted (as DMT is not addictive physiologically) but rather, dependent..

diversify..or get Mimosa hostilis or Chacruna..it's not that difficult, really..except maybe in France
pas très libertaire monsiour FranceRazz

 
DonPeyote
#11 Posted : 7/28/2013 6:37:49 AM

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Why would anybody want to separate the 'Goo' of NMT/DMT?

It is 'Crystal' Clear to me.

Did Mimosa Hostilis get it 'Better' than Acacia? I really don't know.
For me, its a matter of storage, and an interest in DMT. No interest in NMT.
I understand how a plants structure can deliver a well rounded experience- Peyote, Coca, Etc.
On the other hand, we have LSD - should we instead just take the teachings of Ergot, and go crazy? What kind of lesson is that?
I'd rather pick and choose my psychedelics amongst what the natural world has on offer.
And I like my DMT in a crystalline form, that will stay in that matrix, until I'm ready to let it into my brain.

Thanks for your reply!!


DP
 
nen888
#12 Posted : 7/28/2013 6:43:54 AM
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DonPeyote wrote:
Why would anybody want to separate the 'Goo' of NMT/DMT?

It is 'Crystal' Clear to me.

DP


Nen likes this
Wink
 
jamie
#13 Posted : 7/28/2013 6:40:03 PM

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nen888 wrote:
..i don't want to seem repetitive, but..i don't get why you'd want to separate DMT/NMT, unless you're interested in what NMT does on it's own..or curious about chemistry techniques in general..in which case, fair enough..

the NMT extends and modulates the DMT..and slows the onset allowing more time to prepare for the 'space'..

just put 2 to 3 times more extract in implement of choice..Confused

.

the search to 'purify' smacks of the over-refined pharmaceutical world..
why not just accept the plant how it is? did mother nature get it wrong?
maybe it's time to try to 'work' in a different way..
if one just needs pure DMT to 'get off' i suggest one is, not addicted (as DMT is not addictive physiologically) but rather, dependent..

diversify..or get Mimosa hostilis or Chacruna..it's not that difficult, really..except maybe in France
pas très libertaire monsiour FranceRazz



I agree with this, to a degree..because I like whole plant extracts, usually. Sometimes I think purification is unavoidable..like when dealing with wild phalaris grasses. With how the alkaloid levels are I don't think you can reach hyperspace without having to intake too much of other substances to the point that you might be like OD'ing or something. I don't want to overdosing on some unknown alkaloid like 5meoNMT or some random beta carboline by the time I can even inhale 15mg of DMT from an extract..then again maybe a high dose of the full spectrum stuff is preferred..maybe 5meoNMT and the other stuff along with the DMT makes it better, I don't know.

Then again I still like really low doses of the full spectrum stuff..I can just tell a higher dose is probly not ideal and if I can get DMT separated from a wild plant extract that I can find in abundance than it is still more sustainable and closer to nature than ordering some plants from another continent.

I would not be concerned about NMT though. Id just smoke confusa extract as is.

It also depends on location and plant access..if I could find another cleaner DMT profile plant, than I would just use that as is, and then use the wild arundinacea full spectrum stuff as it is also. That would be ideal.. atm the closest local pipeline to DMT is my focus.
 
nen888
#14 Posted : 7/29/2013 12:39:25 PM
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..i agree there are reasons to partition amines..and it's important to work out means of doing this..
it's the constant posts trying to 'fix' A. confusa which irritate me..

in the Entheogenic Effects of NMT thread i briefly described the Paper Chromatography method used to do this, but it took some practice..but it used no complex lab equipment..just careful solvent mix, blotting paper, glass and angle..
 
DonPeyote
#15 Posted : 7/30/2013 6:17:09 AM

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After 'assaying' the NMT/DMT gel, I have to say it is equipotent to crystallized DMT!!!

Not sure what, if any, the effects of NMT played in the experience?

As every journey is slightly different, how can one tell?

But Damn, its STRONG Shit!

I suppose I have no further ojections to the NM/DM-T combo, except this:
What are the storage ramifications of the 'Gel'?

The Crystal DMT I made 7 years ago, is still good, although its definitely decaying into a yellow goo itself.

Assuming an airtight, light-tight environment, how long could one expect the 'Gel' to be viable? Or is this uncharted territory?

I think I'd love to have 1/2 'Gel', and 50% Crystal.

The good news here is this: Virtually unlimited access to this new teacher known as Acacia Confusa.

That is an amazing revelation!!

Wow!!!!

DP
 
nen888
#16 Posted : 7/30/2013 11:09:04 AM
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DonPeyote wrote:
Quote:
After 'assaying' the NMT/DMT gel, I have to say it is equipotent to crystallized DMT!!!

Not sure what, if any, the effects of NMT played in the experience?

..the modulated effects i described above are from 50% or more NMT content..
often A. confusa will have a higher DMT to NMT ratio..
 
DonPeyote
#17 Posted : 7/31/2013 5:12:24 AM

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I am starting another Acacia Confusa extraction, with the intention of experimenting with "Another way of partitioning 1° and 2° amines from 3° amines".

Upon completion of the non-polar (naphtha) phase (A/B Tek), I plan to attempt, and document said attempt, the partitioning of NMT from DMT by reacting the saturated solvent with CO2 gas.

Hopefully, as the reaction is slightly exothermic, the NMT will precipitate out as a carbamate right off the bat, at room temp/atmosphere.

If not? thats where this gets interesting.

DP






 
Global
#18 Posted : 7/31/2013 12:03:44 PM

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InMotion wrote:


The method is sound and has been repeated on a variety of substrates.


Something tells me that this process wouldn't really apply for separating DMT from 5-MeO DMT, right?
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

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DonPeyote
#19 Posted : 8/4/2013 4:07:25 AM

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Acacia Love Letter #2

1/2 kilo of Acacia Confusa Root/trunk bark was extracted via Standard A/B Tek. The resultant (naphtha) solution, was then brought into contact with CO2 gas, at about 82 degrees F, and just over Atmospheric pressure. A precipitate that was white and thread-like appeared, then fell and glued itself to the walls/ bottom of the glass container.

The solution was poured into a sealed glass tray, and freezer precipitated over-night.

After pouring off the solvent, the crystals were left to dry.

After 24 hours dry time: No hint of crystals, just the same old Gel.

Lets see what happens after seven days.

Crystals would be nice

DP
 
DonPeyote
#20 Posted : 8/4/2013 5:14:06 AM

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Acacia Love Letter #2b

The precipitate, assuming it was NMT locked up as a carbamate, was not soluble in Naphtha, however, it readily dissolved in acetone.

Note: The CO2 that was used in the reaction was a gas I created (with my friend mickey mouse), and was kinda, sorta a balanced amount of NaHCO3(s) + CH3COOH.

FYI: It was damn bubbly shit!

There is the odd crystal forming here and there on my dish, but nothing to get excited about, considering the main body of GEL....

More news later down the road...

DP
 
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