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Ecig Method for Vaping DMT summarized - best thing since... Options
 
foaf
#1 Posted : 11/19/2012 7:41:13 PM

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best thing since straight to base Very happy

Hi everyone. I'm new here, thanks for the welcomes in the welcome place.

My story is in the inroduction section. I joined here because I should have long ago, and to bring attention to a couple of threads on DMT-Nexus that I found googling around as I worked with these ecig devices. The ecig vaporizers have lead to a whole new way for DMT to fit into my life; and believe me, I've been trying to fit it in for a long time. e-cig doesn't mean the disposible things at gas station checkouts, it is a whole universe of parts for vaporizing solutions of nicotine, or guess what else.

So I didn't come up with any of this, but the two threads that I've seen on this forum are most certainly under-appreciated. It may be because when you read them they sound like people trying to work this out, and perhaps not coming to a clear conclusion. But that's not the way it is. This is simple, and great. Really.

Rollingwood's Tek
PerPLexED/Lost Traveler/Unheimlich/MDMM thread

So to simplify this before making it specific
----update 12/10/12 - I now think that dmt in 95% ethanol is better, as in Lost travellier's posts in the thread above. it's more concentrated and a more natural vehicle. Also, I now have experimented with the Dual Coil Tanksand they are better, they make a bigger hit.

1) DMT is quite soluble in PEG-400, one of the less common e-cig solvents. It is much easier to manipulate a concentrated solution than a powder.
2) The newer "tank" type ecig cartridges hold liquids, and supply them to a vaporizing element. These are the type to look at. They are made to vaporize solutions of stuff.
3) You put a saturated PEG-400 / DMT solution into a "tank" cartridge and you are set. Anyone can breakthrough every time, it does take a few hits.


Benefits --

1) Always works. No learning curve. You can pull this sharpie sized electronic thing out of your pocket, hand it to a newbie, tell them to hit the button and take one draw after another, and it will get them as far as they want to go. They can drop it in their lap and it wont spill or burn them. You can pick it up and hand it to another person. It's that easy. Over 100 draws in even a small tank setup.

2) Much more efficient with the spice than any way I've done it. In fact, I think the whole vaporized dose recommendations are changed somehow. I estimate that a common puff with one of the common vape setups has about 2-5 mg dmt in it. Three hits and you are past breakthrough and 6 good hits and you drop the device for sure. You can hit it pretty quickly. They make setups that create much bigger hits if you wanted.

3) Ecig equipment is standardized, mass produced, relatively inexpensive for what you get, doesn't look sketchy. If a cop pulled it out of your pocked, he would think it was an ecigarette setup 'cause it is.

4) You can add flavorings, I'm experimenting with this now.

5) You can use it out and about much easier than other portables. Hit it at the rave or the concert. Pass it to a friend. Taking a small dose is fun. Sitting down and taking a big dose is funner.

Ill put details in the next post, but that's the truth.
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
foaf
#2 Posted : 11/19/2012 7:46:26 PM

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So the keys are -

edit add 12/10/12 - my thought have changed with experimentation. Use ethanol 95% 2 mls per gram of dmt, or it can be more concentrated. Still use the tank type cartridges, but the Dual Coil Tanksmake a bigger hit.


A saturated DMT in PEG-400 solution. You can get about 0.5 grams into 3 mls of PEG-400, maybe a bit more. You can order PEG-400 from online e-cig vendors. It's thought to be safer than the other solvents that they use and is usually recommended for people who are allergic to glycerin. The brown bottle is PEG-400. The black sticks are the battery/handle part of an ecig setup. I've found the eco-t size/type to be a good compromise between size and battery life. You can "lock" them so that they don't go off in your pocket.

In the picture, the little vial is a saturated solution of DMT in PEG-400. The glass bottle has some active charcoal purified DMT, and the casserole dish has some that I just freeze precipitated from a direct to base extraction and will clean up soon.

The bottom right thing is an eco-t battery with the atomizer attached and a filled cartridge in it, two spare cartridges sitting next to it. This is what I think is the best setup. Thats the whole rig, it holds over a cc of mixture, ie about 200 mg, and you can have other filled cartridges in your pocket ready to go if needed.

The vivanova tank pictured holds more and gives bigger hits and is rebuildable if it burns out. The green box is c3 smokimizers and are cheaper and disposible. Lots of these tanks work well. Once you get the batteries, all other brands of tanks fit on them if they use the most standard threads, called 510 threads.
foaf attached the following image(s):
setups.JPG (239kb) downloaded 2,933 time(s).
 
foaf
#3 Posted : 11/19/2012 8:00:55 PM

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To make it simple, here is my recommendation. This would be using the #1 company's products, Joye. There are many others, but most copy Joye. The threads that connect the battery to the atomizer/cartridge are standardized by Joye and called 510. If you get other brands, stick to 510 threads.

So a simplified shopping list includes

added - I now like ethanol better, 2 cc per gram dmt or more concentrated.
1) PEG-400 ( ecig solvent faq ) Source

2) eco-t battery and charger

3) Regular atomizer head and/or High output atomizer head called "low resistance"

4) Empty tanks can be refilled as many times as you want.

5) added - or instead of 3 and 4, I found dual coil tanks for significantly bigger hits and cheaper.

----edit add 12/4/12 ----

further down the thread it is suggested that this system doesnt make enough vapor and costs too much. If you want more vapor from the start and a cheaper price to start just get the battery and the CE3 disposable tank

or for even more vapor, but shorter battery life, get a dual coil tank.
Dual Coil tank
foaf attached the following image(s):
egotbattery.jpg (20kb) downloaded 2,888 time(s).
egotatomizer.jpg (15kb) downloaded 2,881 time(s).
egottank.jpg (20kb) downloaded 2,886 time(s).
 
Crazyhorse
#4 Posted : 11/19/2012 10:38:02 PM

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This is awesome! Thanks for the info. I had wondered if this was possible but hadn't really looked into it much yet. I already have an e-Go T, it totally changed the way I consumed THC (back before I quit), and I tried to turn as many people on to it as I could. Unfortunately I don't have any more DMT to try this with, and with the MHRB situation really don't know when/if I ever will. Crying or very sad But if some miracle lands it in my lap again I'll definitely give this method a try!
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No direction but to never fight her flow,
No direction but to trust the final destination.
 
Bill Cipher
#5 Posted : 11/19/2012 11:30:33 PM
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I'm curious why you say that the preferred rig is the one that delivers a smaller amount. It's hard for me to imagine really breaking through taking multiple 5mg hits, although the idea of a delivery system like this is very intriguing for sure.

How much bigger are the hits produced by the Vivi Nova, and what are its relative drawbacks? If you could get up into the 20mg per hit range, then you would be on to something!
 
foaf
#6 Posted : 11/20/2012 12:40:27 AM

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Quote:
I'm curious why you say that the preferred rig is the one that delivers a smaller amount.


Well, the Joye brand just works great. I actually havent tried, but have ordered, the atomizer head that makes a bigger hit, the so called low resistance. I can get to any level of this that I want to go to. It is more of an easing in than with a huge blast from a skillet or a bulb, but I think I like that better.

Unlike other methods where when you are half there, its hard to manage the mechanical aspects of another or another hit, that's not the case here. You can work it till you get there.

Quote:
If you could get up into the 20mg per hit range, then you would be on to something!

Oh this is on to something. But I see what you are thinking. Ive put 20 mg into vaporizers before, hit it hard with one or two hits and not gotten as far as I get with say 4 hits off of one of these. That is why I think this is more efficient with my spice.

Quote:
How much bigger are the hits produced by the Vivi Nova


The ViviNova can be fitted with any one of 3 different inexpensive replacable elements to adjust the size of the hit. I've only done the smaller one that it comes with, and it is about as much as I can take without coughing. Granted the vapor isn't all DMT.

I don't suggest that this is "better" than other great methods, but for on the go, about town, it has huge merit. I think its the only way Ill ever take it again. You will never be able to get as much of a dose into one hit with an ecig device as you could using straight DMT and a VG or other good vaporizer.
 
Jorkest
#7 Posted : 11/20/2012 12:18:49 PM

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im really excited to try this out..thanks a lot foaf
it's a sound
 
Bill Cipher
#8 Posted : 11/20/2012 5:48:25 PM
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Me too. Thanks for the tips.
 
gibran2
#9 Posted : 11/21/2012 12:21:48 AM

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An interesting delivery method.

There are two problems with the GVG that this device might solve:

---- 1. Condensation. Even when the GVG is kept very clean, it’s sometimes surprising how much vapor condenses on the glass.

---- 2. Failure to vape the full dose. Although my “choreboy” disc usually works very well, there are times when not everything gets vaporized, even though it appears to be at the time. Very frustrating when this happens!

Search my posts for “Ploom” and you’ll see an ecig-type device I tried once. Unfortunately, it wasn’t successful at all.

There are a couple of concerns I have with this new method:

---- 1. Inhaling polyethylene glycol vapor doesn’t sound too appealing. How safe is it really? Is it harsh or unpleasant in any way?

---- 2. I’m used to a single inhalation for a full dose. Do you think it’s possible to load a full dose (approx. 25 – 30mg) and get it all in one breath?

Looking forward to other’s evaluations.
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foaf
#10 Posted : 11/21/2012 4:07:50 AM

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The PEG-400 has a bit of taste. It doesn't hurt the experience IMO. It's kind of a musty sweet taste. As far as safety goes, to a great degree I just rely on the mindless practical fact that it is deemed safe as an ecig base and ecig smokers would be vaping hundreds of times more of this than me. It is used in some intravenous preparations and is generally considered to be safe all around for ingestion. Used in foods and medicines.

I don't think this type of device will ever be able to give 10+ mg in a single puff, no. It isn't the right tool for a huge one hit blast off.
 
Mr.Peabody
#11 Posted : 11/21/2012 8:34:13 PM

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This is so awesome! I had this same idea a few weeks ago. I am glad someone figured this out, so I don't have to! It sounds perfect for me, as I don't like being ripped into hyperspace, but more easing into it.

Thanks!!!
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VIII
#12 Posted : 11/21/2012 10:45:43 PM

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Great stuff thanks for putting this together!
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You may not care the slightest and may not be the brightest, but from here "I" sees you're mighty for you created it all.

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embracethevoid
#13 Posted : 11/21/2012 11:35:11 PM

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Do you think this method could be modified for harmalas? Harmalas have a much higher vaporisation temp than spice; the iolite vaporiser cannot vape harmala extract and it reaches 190 celsius. I am very interested in all the various methods behind these techniques.

But seeing as it is an atomizer, there is a chance that simply inhaling a very fine mist of harmala freebase dissolved in appropriate solvent would function the same as gaseous harmala.
 
gibran2
#14 Posted : 11/21/2012 11:43:35 PM

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For some reason (i.e. me not reading carefully enough) I thought this was an E-cig with an electric heating element. Upon more careful reading, I see it’s an atomizer.

This makes it even more appealing! No heat means no possibility of thermally degrading the product. Maybe this is why a smaller dose is more effective?

I think I have to get one of these.

Thanks for all the info!


edit: After reading more, it seems that e-cigs both atomize and heat liquids? Now I’m confused. Sad
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embracethevoid
#15 Posted : 11/22/2012 9:45:55 AM

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Yeah you need heat I guess. Maybe to reduce the viscosity/provide enough energy to the mist to make it as fine as possible?

Here's my question: Why can't you just get a cleaned out perfume bottle with some DMT solution using a lung-safe solvent and spray-huff straight into your lungs a la asthma pumps? Removing the electronic aspect makes such a method even more reliable and safe.

Quote:
When using a nebulizer for inhalation therapy with medication to be administered directly to the lungs, it is important to note that inhaled aerosol droplets can only penetrate into the narrow branches of the lower airways if they have a small diameter of 1–5 micrometers. Otherwise they are only absorbed by the mouth cavity, where the effect is low.


This might lend a clue about both methods. I've always thought about what if someone could 'vape' LSD through this method. Since it is rather senstive to temperatures I guess as regards the question of heat, the ability to deliver LSD in this fashion would be the acid test.

 
obliguhl
#16 Posted : 11/22/2012 1:30:12 PM

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Quote:
Why can't you just get a cleaned out perfume bottle with some DMT solution using a lung-safe solvent and spray-huff straight into your lungs a la asthma pumps?


Because a perfume bottle is not capable of dispersing the dmt solution to the degree necessary. Yes, they create a mist, but a mist consisting of big droplets which condensate quickly. Huffing it straight from a spray mister is propably a setup for a horrible and painful experience.

The Idea to use ecigs is not new, but to my knowledge, it has always been an issue of finding a suitable solvent since DMT seems to be poorly soluble in Vegetable glycerine. It certainly is intriguing as a new method of efficient and convinient DMT delivery. More people would have to test it though.
 
ChaoticMethod
#17 Posted : 11/24/2012 7:28:14 PM

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I bought the Joye thing to test it out. Waiting to receive the PG400 liquid through the post. Will definitely share once I've tried it...

I'm actually pretty excited about this. I like how simple it sounds and like to be able to get slowly into it.
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E-cig solved
#18 Posted : 11/24/2012 10:39:48 PM
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Needed
Ego t tank atomizer
Ego battery
VG e-liquid
Empty ego tank cartridges
Empty 10 ml e-liquid bottle

All of these can be found at any online e-cig retailer.

Add 1g dmt fb to empty e-liquid bottle
Add 10 drops VG e-liquid to 1g dmt freebase e-liquid bottle
Start your car. Turn the defrost full blast. Place mixture on top of defrost vent.
The dmt will disolve into the VG e-liquid as it warms up.
Sqeeze mixture from bottle into empty tank cartridge. You may have to re-warm several times throughout filling.
Push cartridge into atomizer. Screw on charged battery.
Solution will harden in cartridge. DO NOT vape hardened solution. Whenever you are ready to use, re-warm on defrost, or any other method, until solution is liquid, and no DMT salts can be seen. (Takes a couple minutes on defrost)
Vape away, and enjoy scentless (flavored, if you buy flavored VG e-liquid), anytime anywhere, on demand.

P.S. I believe you can concentrate the solution even further, with less VG e-liquid.
 
Lost travellier
#19 Posted : 11/25/2012 5:50:37 AM

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Excellent new information. Thanks, E-cig solved! Thumbs up
 
gibran2
#20 Posted : 11/27/2012 3:30:57 AM

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Not so fast everybody.

Being the device-curious person that I am, I ordered one of these (the JOYE eGo Mega) and some propylene glycol last week and got them today.

I tried it out first with plain propylene glycol (PG). It worked OK – produced a slightly sweet, nearly tasteless flavor.

Next, I dissolved about 100mg DMT into maybe 0.5ml PG and tried it out.

Observations:

The first thing I noticed is that you really have to draw hard when inhaling. The DMT must have changed the viscosity of the fluid – it required noticeably more effort to inhale than it did with the plain PG.

Second, the vapor is harsh! I’m not sure how it’s heated inside the “atomizer”, but the throat-feel reminded me very much of my early inexperienced days with burnt spice.

Finally, it takes many inhalations to get effects. (Maybe 10? I lost count.) And even then, I was still far from a breakthrough. With sublingual MAOI beforehand, it might be easier to reach a breakthrough, but the vapor is so harsh that my throat would probably give out before that point.

If I had to compare this device to other devices/methods, it reminds me most of “the machine”, except requiring much more effort to inhale.

The ecig + PG + postage was almost the same price as a GVG, so it really isn’t a good choice economically.

I must say that I feel a bit foolish for spending money on this, but at least now I know. I’ll continue to experiment with it for awhile, but my lungs can only take so much abuse.

One positive – it made me appreciate even more the elegant simplicity and supreme efficiency of the GVG!
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