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Wax
#1 Posted : 9/16/2012 9:12:24 PM

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The hindu goddess of empowerment, time, and death.

I have only seen her depicted once that I can recall, a tiny image in the corner of one of Alex Grey's sacred mirrors cards. Last night I loaded up 15mg and saw an entity (didn't matter if my eyes were open or closed) that had many arms wielding a hyperspacial alien like knife/knives, I got an impression of evil at first but the longer I looked at her the more neutral she became.

I figured if anything Hindu culture would have a goddess with many arms, so I used the google and found Kali; very similar indeed. My question to anyone who knows about Hinduism is what could this represent, if anything? I find it odd that I would be seeing Hindu goddesses in my trips, I have never really been into that sort of thing.

Thanks!
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
AlbertKLloyd
#2 Posted : 9/17/2012 3:11:51 AM

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Durga, Kali, Kali Maa

Interesting symbol.
Hard to say what is could represent to you.

Might be a calling of sorts.
 
Wax
#3 Posted : 9/17/2012 3:59:55 AM

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Yes, especially since I have absolutely no knowledge of anything regarding Hinduism, besides what I looked up after this experience. Smile
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 
blue lunar night
#4 Posted : 9/17/2012 4:24:04 PM

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Kali is more than mere symbol...

even now i feel Her breathing down my neck...

if you want to learn more about Kali, i highly recommend
Kali Kaula: A Manual of Tantric Magick by Jan Fries...
it is by far the best book on the subject that i have come across.


blue lunar night attached the following image(s):
Kali Ma.jpg (166kb) downloaded 195 time(s).
 
autumnsphere
#5 Posted : 9/17/2012 10:42:48 PM

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That's an interesting subject, Jung speaks a lot of Kali, I might seek some quotes out. Smile
 
DMTripper
#6 Posted : 9/18/2012 12:58:55 AM

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I have met Kali eye to eye in hyperspace. And I've never been into Hinduism. Very real. Absolutely real. Didn't communicate thou so I don't know what she was doing there Razz Bus some day I'll find out. I'll get my answer Smile I know that Smile

––––––

DMTripper is a fictional character therefore everything he says here must be fiction.
I mean, who really believes there is such a place as Hyperspace!!

 
Eliyahu
#7 Posted : 9/18/2012 2:28:56 AM
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I had a whole hindu hyperspace thing happen recently to me too which I thought was cool but odd.. I love vedic stuff but don't really think about it much as I am currently focused on Hebrew studies.

I smoked DMT on top of an oral dose of amanita and saw Gonesh and other hindu entites.. They were all this gleaming super shiny gold color and it was really really breathtakingly beautiful.

-E
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not percieve the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "brother let me remove the speck from your eye", when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye?-Yeshua ben Yoseph
 
autumnsphere
#8 Posted : 9/19/2012 1:16:41 AM

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Same here, same here... golden elephant beings swirling like crazy. Smile I think they were golden because of the sunlight. Anyway, sorry for the OT.
 
AlbertKLloyd
#9 Posted : 9/19/2012 1:40:32 AM

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Kali is a symbol, the symbol may stand for something else, but there are more than a dozen representations of Durga and Kali is but one.

All we perceive in so called hyperspace is symbol, in both my experience and opinion. They are not things unto themselves. It is like seeing music, something that DMT does for me, but when I see the music, it is a symbol of the music, it isn't actually the music.

it is like a dream in a way, I have seen many people I know in dreams, but it is never actually them, only a symbol of them.

 
Doodazzle
#10 Posted : 9/19/2012 2:48:00 AM

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I've met her too and I also have never been into hinduism.

I respect her and fear her.
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein

I appreciate your perspective.


 
Wax
#11 Posted : 9/19/2012 3:24:57 AM

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Albert, so far in my travels I have to agree with you. It seems that although I am not sure what the images symbolize, I am easily able to draw multiple potential correlations between the images and my current state.

This leads me to believe that they probably are representations of thoughts and although I can never be sure what thoughts exactly, I think the process of mentally going through the options is the real integration.
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 
spinCycle
#12 Posted : 9/19/2012 4:29:57 PM

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This is interesting to me because on someone's first few ventures into Changa-land he had the distinct impression that he was in connecting with an energy that was connected to Ganesha in some way. He cannot say it actually looked like Ganesha, but he connected this pattern with it.

The fact that he has a statue of said image of Godhead right next to his traveling space as well as in his prep area has, no doubt, much to do with this. Smile Since he sees these hyperspaces as directly connected to his need to overcome certain obstacles in his life, this seems an appropriate Set and Setting.

He is not in any way literal about religious dogma, but he has always been attracted to the idea and image of Ganesha. He thinks it represents an energy in the universe, but the personification (elephantication ???) of that energy as Ganesha resonates well with him, or maybe he just really likes elephants.

He thinks there is danger in taking symbols too literally, yet great power in those images.

Encountering Kail seems like a very deep meeting. My understanding is that she is both Destroyer and Creator from that which has been Destroyed. Heavy stuff, indeed.
Images of broken light,
Which dance before me like a million eyes,
They call me on and on...

 
AlbertKLloyd
#13 Posted : 9/21/2012 4:39:30 AM

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I don't want to get into this too much, but from one Vedic perspective Kali is the feminine reciprocal of Kala, (Kala is also known as Shiva)

Shiva is an aspect of the Trimurti, formed of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The teaching says that these three aspects are but one and are fundamentally indivisible. The teaching specifically states that the understanding of them as deities is facile and meant for those who cannot comprehend the true meaning, (is this true, who knows?) It further elaborates that the stories of them as deities are teaching aids meant to educate and entertain specific minds.

It has to do with other teachings about symbolism, that there are three levels of understanding (appreciating) the symbols, this is best explained in terms of an audience, in my example I will use dance. The most basic level is that which looks to the theatrical aspects of the dance in terms of symbolism, they see the story, the violence, the lust, the comedy, the tragedy etc. The second level (type of audience member) is that of the performer, they appreciate the dance in terms of production, skill etc. the third type of audience is those who understand the aspects of the dance as relating to hidden truth, transcending both the story and the form of the dance to appreciate something that the other audience members do not understand. This has been stated as those who find the dance enlightening, so to speak.

It is considered wrong for one form of audience member to inform another of the aspects, that is to say that it is generally improper for someone who appreciates the hidden truth to point it out to those who appreciate the form or the story. This has to do with the nature of realization, the hidden meanings cannot be appreciated by those informed of them by another, they must be perceived, the same is also true of the skill and the story. If you know the skill level of the dance, to tell another who does not realize it is improper, because they will not truly appreciate it, for their perspective not that of knowing for themselves the significance. In the example of dance the audience that appreciates the skill tends to be dancers themselves, so on and so forth for the other audience types.

The audience types are not mutually exclusive, a person who appreciates hidden truths may see the skill and the story, thus audience members may transcend understandings and gain new appreciations, but this cannot be from instruction or testimony. Consider something you personally find beautiful, can someone who has not seen it appreciate what it was to you, having told them you saw something beautiful?

The symbol of the Trimurti is as this, it has the same basic layers as the dance.

Kali is an aspect of the Trimurti, she is indivisible from Kala (Shiva)
there are many levels of understanding or rather; appreciation that pertain to this symbolism. It is not for me to define the meanings of those symbols for another. I can share what they mean to me, but this is not proper for me to do because it can interfere with the appreciation of those meanings for another.


I hope i have not done too much damage sharing this.

 
Wax
#14 Posted : 9/21/2012 8:53:40 AM

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I had a whole thing written in response to Albert but the site went down in the middle of it. So to save myself the hassle of a repeat I'll write up a reply later.

Albert I was a little unclear on one thing though, when you use the analogy of the second level, or "the performer" what exactly does that correlate to regarding the Trimurti? I get the representation of the first and third levels but not quite sure if I understand that one.
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 
AlbertKLloyd
#15 Posted : 9/21/2012 1:22:41 PM

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It has a lot of numerological aspects in it that have many applications, functions and uses.

Someone who uses them is as the performer in this case... one domain of this is mathematics. One might appreciate some functional aspects of the symbols. They have much in common with the first triad of the kabbalah tree of life, or the trigram aspect of the Ba-gua, or even the first 3 numbers of our mathematic system, which are all prime etc.
 
AlbertKLloyd
#16 Posted : 9/21/2012 1:44:53 PM

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I will add further that these three layers of appreciation seem to exist (so far as I can tell) for pretty much everything and anything.

Psychedelic experience is a good example.

Say you have an experience of psychedelic nature, there is the 1st fundamental level, the human aspect of it (story level), this is where it is you, about you, has meaning for you specifically etc. Then there is the next level, this is about the experience but is not as personal in a way, the personal is still there, but you have transcended it. Instead if becomes about functional relations of the experience to the user, but not about the "story" of the experience. The last level of appreciation becomes about the unity of all, in terms of symbolism. People sometimes mix the levels (and tend to get confused), but sometimes they don't, often they get stuck on the story, or stuck on the experience itself, or appreciate the aspect of unity but go back to the story etc.

All of the levels are good, worth experiencing and a person may move through all of them in any order in an experience.

Say that your experience tell you something specific in some manner or another. The first level could be that the symbol or message is literally true/real, the second could be that you experienced it but it is not literally true and it arises from some other personal aspect (psychological), the third could be that there is something to it that is about the nature of nature itself...

or not. Razz

it is important to keep in mind that the meanings of the symbols must be appreciated by the individual, in this way the insight into them should arise from the individual.

Life itself, the life experience, layers...
the story, the moral, and the nature of it.

thoughts arise, feelings arise, what is self/mind?
one might as well laugh at everything.

 
Wax
#17 Posted : 9/21/2012 6:29:20 PM

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Thanks, that really cleared it up for me. Smile

I appreciate the replies, they have reaffirmed my beliefs as well as given me more to think about. Honestly I never really expected an interpretation of my own experience, I was just more curious to get a little bit of background information on Kali from someone in the know that may be of use to my own interpretation. From your post though, I feel that I have already interpreted it in my own way, even before posting about it the first time and maybe now I am just searching for an alternate or deeper meaning based on information that I thought I didn't possess.

I really like how you explained the Trimurti as layers of the dance, it was very thought provoking and I think I may have to look into it more because it seems to have resonated with me in a way that I have not quite experienced with other spiritual systems. I really relate to this concept and I have never been able to quite pin it down, but this has really helped.
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 
Rising Spirit
#18 Posted : 9/22/2012 3:55:33 PM

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Mother Kali is most frightening and is equally, stunningly beautiful. If one doesn't perceive her power as an initiatory process and a direct reflection of our own mental readiness, and in so doing surrender to the force of her teaching... she can eat one alive. But that's kinda her job, anyway. Shocked

I wholly agree with Albert, she is an archetypal symbol. A symbol and a bonafide goddess. A mask the Omniself wears for specific lessons. Her manifestation is that of the living, dancing Shakti, the "cosmic current" which creates, maintains and destroys all of our existential dreamscapes. Behind her terrifying appearance, is a well of love so pure and embracing... it draws our attention from that of an observers and witness, into that of the the Sacred Void and insubstantiality of Eternal Being... The Unified Field.

I suppose on some levels, she scares us so much, that we release our individuality and ego centrism, just to escape the intensity of her commanding presence? And within such vital perceptual transformation, we eventually see her as void of all form and empty of any aspects. Like ourselves, she is a dream. Like ourselves, she is that seed of Divine immortality, indwelling within all being. Her destructive symbolism is mirrored & balanced by her well of compassion and her intense motherly love.

AlbertKLloyd wrote:
It is important to keep in mind that the meanings of the symbols must be appreciated by the individual, in this way the insight into them should arise from the individual.

Life itself, the life experience, layers...
the story, the moral, and the nature of it.

thoughts arise, feelings arise, what is self/mind?
one might as well laugh at everything.


Agreed. And I also feel that all of the aspects of symbol or archetype, are truly parts of our own interior landscape. Our deeper thoughts, patterns of cognition and subjective interpretations... all stem from our central core, our mind. Not our thinking, analyzing mentality, our truest reality as Divine thought. Plato had much to say along these lines.

Likewise, we give birth to the earth beneath our feet, the stars overhead and the space which seemingly separates one form from another form, one atom from another, etc. We are active participants in the reality of this existential paradigm. Co-creators, co-sustainers, co-destroyers... essentially, we are each co-authors with the unfolding story of the ever-changing Tao. Big grin

But there is also the realm of the interconnection of all human dreams, all thought-forms and myriad manifestations of the greater, un-individuated mind. What Dr. Carl Jung intelligently called the "collective unconscious". We are both, the source of the Grid of Omniversal Being and merely another thread within it's fabric of universal reality. Our challenge is to see the unseen, to touch the untouchable, to feel Kali within ourselves and feel ourselves within others. To embrace ego-death and in so doing, bloom effulgently and exponentially.

Perhaps this is why we meet so many gods, goddesses, angels, elves and other inter-dimensional beings, when we travel through Hyperspace? They are imprinted upon the Akashic template of all humankind. Regardless if we believe in re-incarnation or not, we all more or less agree that our thoughts become interwoven with all other thoughts. Our ideas are echoes and reflections of all the thoughts which emerge our of mind, as ideas move through one consciousness to another. Right? When we pool into these higher realms of idea, spell bound by the force of a psychedelic experience, we encounter many of these aspects of the Sacred current. We give them reality by observing and perceiving them through our own inner and outer vision. They are powerful teachers, these gods and goddesses.

Kali was worshiped fervently by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa. 35 years ago,when I first studied his teachings, this really blew my mind. How could he love a goddess so seemingly horrible looking and wholly terrifying? But he saw her true form, her hidden formlessness. He obsessed over his longing for her love, her manifestation of God as the Holy Mother of everything... and conversely, her aspect of transience of material life. She pulls each ego-soul back into non-existence of oneself, an empty vacuum of no-thingness.

For Sri Ramakrishna, Kali's destructive aspect was the embodiment of the purest Divine love. His own immersion to this limitless love, burned his own identity and personal Egoself into ashes. So much so, that the fulcrum of his devotion shattered his very definition of his own self into so much cosmic dust. The concentration he cultivated shifted his attention from his personal mirages and concepts. He merged with the object of his love, the chosen form of his living Goddess, so much so, that he was absorbed into the Void itslef. Love

His radical practice of unswerving Bhakti morphed his inner vision into that of Jnani. It awakened within him an understanding of the immanence of the Divine within all material expression of life. He began to see God inherently existent within all archetypes, symbols and thought-forms. And even further... into the void of the unformed, unborn Omniself.

He was henceforth, an inspired advocate of Vedanta Advaita. He released any form or association he had held of Kali. He surrendered any an all self membranes, those thoughts separating himself from the Supreme Being. He had died and been reborn, yet, knew of his own illusory dreamscape. His profound lucidity was so powerful, he was often entranced to such a degree that he was oblivious to the world around himself. Gone...

I chuckle to myself as I type in these speculative words. I am reminded of the old psychedelic colloquialism from the late 1960's and early 1970's, "I am totally gone, man".

It could be viewed as Mother Kali destroying Sri Ramakrishna, and Sri Ramakrishna in turn, destroying Mother Kali. When his conscious-awareness had ripened enough, her archetypal form was essentially, unnecessary. That's why I strongly implied that there was an initiatory element to one's visions of Kali. She is sometimes recognized when we are shifted into higher states of mind. Yet... she is also a guardian Spirit Helper of sorts. An angel and a goddess, both, but not something other than ourselves nor we something other than her. Thumbs up

As a symbolic representation of the Divine cause, She births us as individuals and conversely, kills us when this paradigm is superseded by the next paradigm. Kali stands at the gate beyond Egoself, testing our readiness to merge consciously, into the Sacred Light. To surrender to the current of sonic vibration, which initiates all universal being into manifestation. To attune ourselves to that which we have always been. To fuse our focus within the Indivisible. Quintessentially, to see through the illusion of our cyclical mirage of self sustenance and our affirmation of an isolated point of individual awareness.

In short, Kali is that Sacred part within ourselves, which takes the false sense of I am-ness, our Egoself, and tears it all up into so much cosmic confetti. We are not only the dreamscape of our perception, we are the dreamer behind the phenomenon. Dreamer and the dream are one. Yet, when the dreamer awakens, all dreamscapes becomes so much smoke in the breeze. No mind.

This allows for a remembrance of what we were before we began to think and label our mortal experiences as this or that. In our awakening, she is likewise awakened. In our becoming, encounter with the Oneness of unified reality, our un-becoming facilitates a lovely state of freedom. She too, is then returned into the Clear Light of the Void... our eternal nature, ineffably being what it is and will always be.

No words can go further nor rightly capture the infinite character of the Tao. Stop
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
 
Rising Spirit
#19 Posted : 9/24/2012 1:28:03 AM

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Sorry about the looooooong wind I blew the other day. Embarrased

But I am curious if any other psychonauts have had visions of the Chinese Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion, the goddess Kwan Yin? I have personally seen her on many journeys. She is so loving and radiant, I am always humbled by her beatific grace and loving presence. Love
Rising Spirit attached the following image(s):
534242_246475648809279_2007246381_n.jpg (123kb) downloaded 61 time(s).
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
 
Wax
#20 Posted : 9/24/2012 6:05:24 AM

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No need to be sorry Rising Spirit, I am honored to get a post from you on one of my threads Smile I always enjoy the philosophy you bring and have a great time reading your posts.

Interesting that you say she is somewhat of a gatekeeper between the ego and the sacred light, I'm not as experienced as many here are with the molecule and I feel like she was standing at the edge of a breakthrough, showing me her tough side seeing if I was up to surrender to anything and everything.
'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
 
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