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Pineal Gland myths? Options
 
TheNtt
#1 Posted : 2/9/2009 6:16:58 PM

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I first learned about DMT about 4 or 5 years ago, and quickly read DMT the spirit molecule. I've only read the book one more time since then. Anyways, I thought Rick Strassman made the point that DMT is made in the pineal gland. I don't remember specifically how he goes about it, but I had always been under the impression Strassman had some really strong evidence for this theory, and that he was actually able to measure DMT levels within the pineal. The nexus was the first place I had ever heard people deny the truth of the pineal gland theory, and I'm curious what other information is out there... if any at all? Or was I just young and naive to think Strassman's theory was probably correct?
 
 
Simulacra
#2 Posted : 2/10/2009 2:33:11 AM
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I think theres good evidence, the most convincing thing is how it's right where the 3rd eye would be. And in Egyptian culture they have the eye of horus which is the shape of a certain region of the brain. And the pupil of the eye of horus is where the pineal gland is.
The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth--it is the truth which conceals that there is none.

The simulacrum is true.

 
TheNtt
#3 Posted : 2/10/2009 2:46:58 AM

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I agree... I can't think of a more logical place. Apparently Strassman can't either. I know it doesn't make it true, but is there any evidence suggesting something other than the pineal gland is responsible for DMT creation in humans? It also makes sense because of how similar serotonin and DMT are. Rick Strassman said that DMT is IN FACT a derivative of mealtonin (just like serotonin), and melatonin is definitley created in the pineal gland. So I guess what I'm wondering is, do people just not accept the pineal theory as 100% fact, or is there some evidence of something else?
 
ComaProphet
#4 Posted : 2/10/2009 4:21:44 AM

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To me the evidence is clear: If the pineal gland is responsible for Melatonin... where else is Dimethyltryptamine going to come from?
Meditation to cure Depression.

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In time, you can work up to holding the breath out for 1 full minute.
 
TheNtt
#5 Posted : 2/10/2009 4:39:42 AM

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ComaProphet wrote:
To me the evidence is clear: If the pineal gland is responsible for Melatonin... where else is Dimethyltryptamine going to come from?


I'm with you on that. That's what I've always thought.. until I came here and saw people saying that it's not true.
 
Trips
#6 Posted : 2/10/2009 4:41:51 AM
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Scientists have actually tried to isolate DMT from the pineal and they've been unsuccessful. So, it would make SENSE that it would be found there, but they haven't found it there YET, despite looking for it. I however, am just starting a masters program in Neuropharmacology with a heavy heavy background in Organic Chem, so... I won't let you guys down Pleased
 
40oztofreedom
#7 Posted : 2/10/2009 5:08:36 AM

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ComaProphet wrote:
To me the evidence is clear: If the pineal gland is responsible for Melatonin... where else is Dimethyltryptamine going to come from?


My psychology classes have gotten into that subject about how melatonin is produced and its effects. But, my professor has yet to say anything else about the gland itself. The production of (acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine), what it is, does, and why, is the only thing thats been mentioned so far. I make the presumption that it would be possible for the production of similar chemicals, but then again, I'm not a doctor. But it seems plausible that DMT could possibly be a bi-product of such a similar chemical?

If anyone can come up with any information it would be highly, highly appreciated.

Its been killing me to know for so long!

Mad
So glad to see you have overcome them.
Completely silent now
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You cast your demons out

--------------------
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freethinker
#8 Posted : 2/11/2009 3:32:44 AM
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There is no more evidence to any of the claims than there is evidence of a fat man living in the North Pole who flies around on Christmas eve delivering presents.

All posts by this author are blatant plagiarisms, fictitious inventions, and outright lies.
 
TheNtt
#9 Posted : 2/11/2009 4:34:44 AM

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freethinker wrote:
There is no more evidence to any of the claims than there is evidence of a fat man living in the North Pole who flies around on Christmas eve delivering presents.


That's just simply not true.

 
freethinker
#10 Posted : 2/11/2009 10:29:52 PM
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TheNtt wrote:
freethinker wrote:
There is no more evidence to any of the claims than there is evidence of a fat man living in the North Pole who flies around on Christmas eve delivering presents.


That's just simply not true.


Excuse me?

Show me the medical studies demonstrating DMT production within the pineal gland, and increased rate of production during birth and death. There aren't any. Search around and you'll find some properly peer-reviewed published papers referencing endogenous production of DMT (metabolized by the enzyme tryptamine-N-methyltransferase), and if you're lucky you'll come across Guchhait RB's 1976 work referencing finding 5-MEO in a human pineal. But you'll find no medical support of NN-DMT production in the Pineal, and absolutely no support for increased levels of production (from wherever it may be produced) during birth and death.

Until then you are, unfortunately, brainwashed by an irresponsible author including personal conjecture on biology with case study reports of subjective effects of exogenous substances in the same published work, which was picked up by the popular masses and mistaken for science.

I'm all for Strassman's theorizing. It's fun! fun! fun! I could care less if it ultimately turns out he's right. I take no side on this. I simply cannot sit around idly while swaths of elf-dust blinded tryptamine apostles spread unsubstantiated theories and beliefs as incontrovertible truth.

Unless, of course, you were talking about Santa Clause. In which case, just ignore my post but you're on your own there. *giggles*

All posts by this author are blatant plagiarisms, fictitious inventions, and outright lies.
 
psychonaut
#11 Posted : 2/11/2009 10:41:34 PM
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As far as production in the pineal gland, that is just an educated guess, no evidence has been found to say it is. DMT is definitely endogenous though, there was a study trying to find a correlation between DMT levels and Schizophrenia(which found no link at all). Problem with trying to make a study that measures DMT levels under certain states is that blood levels and levels in the brain can be VERY different. Just some food for thought.

*edit*
TheNtt wrote:
I agree... I can't think of a more logical place. Apparently Strassman can't either. I know it doesn't make it true, but is there any evidence suggesting something other than the pineal gland is responsible for DMT creation in humans? It also makes sense because of how similar serotonin and DMT are. Rick Strassman said that DMT is IN FACT a derivative of mealtonin (just like serotonin), and melatonin is definitley created in the pineal gland. So I guess what I'm wondering is, do people just not accept the pineal theory as 100% fact, or is there some evidence of something else?

just thought I'd add, serotonin is NOT a derivative of melatonin , serotonin is actually converted INTO melatonin. And the route for biosynthesis hasn't been found so we can't say what path it is made in, though it would probably be derived from 5-HTP, serotonin or something similar. And serotonin isn't produced in the pineal gland(at least not exclusively I know).
 
benzyme
#12 Posted : 2/11/2009 11:52:43 PM

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what is the E.C.# of the enzyme directly involved with DMT production, in the currently accepted metabolic mechanism of tryptophan metabolism? 2.1.1.49. (INMT)

it's not expressed in the pineal gland.

freethinker and psychonaut are correct, DMT is produced endogenously, but most likely not in the pineal gland. Strassman merely hypothesized production in the pineal gland, but there is no scientific evidence, just anecdotal postulations.

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Jorkest
#13 Posted : 2/12/2009 12:15:43 AM

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it must be made in the lungs..haha ive actually heard its possible
it's a sound
 
benzyme
#14 Posted : 2/12/2009 12:19:15 AM

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http://www.erowid.org/re...7064&DocPartID=6427

"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern
genetic and structural techniques, has provided a
more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide
a complete story. In two studies, Thompson
et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and
characterized the activities of rabbit and human
INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit
INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung,
moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain. The authors observe high Km values (an
order of magnitude higher than in previous studies
[33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and
an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain.
Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production
of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant.
Their conclusion places much weight on the significance
of observed Km values for recombinant human
INMT and does not take into account several
additional genetic and enzymatic concerns.
Despite years of research, there is no universally
accepted understanding of the biophysics of enzyme
function [37]; thus, the meaning of Km values,
especially for in vivo biochemical pathways,
is still open to interpretation. Although Thompson
et al. argue that high Km values signify an
enzyme–substrate combination that is not biologically
meaningful, a meta-analysis of recent research
has shown that high Km values are significant
in biological systems [38]. Although enzyme–
substrate complexes with high Km values show less
binding affinity, catalysis often proceeds at a faster
reaction rate. In fact, Ferhst [38] identifies many
enzymes in glycolysis that operate at ‘‘very high’’
Km values – showing catalytic efficiency despite
having mM affinity. Ferhst argues that affinity becomes
less important in intracellular systems
where high concentrations of necessary metabolites
are present and suggests that the specificity
constant kcat/Km is the best indicator of enzyme–
substrate efficiency. Thus, we advise against the
placement of undue emphasis on numerical values
of Km when interpreting in vitro activity. The structure
of human INMT needs to be determined and its
in vivo kinetic parameters more thoroughly assessed
before N-methylation of tryptamines can
be written off as physiologically irrelevant. The results
of Thompson et al. should also be taken with
caution because their measurements reflect the
activity of a recombinant enzyme, removed from
its natural environment where cellular compartmentalization
could significantly alter its activity.
Genetically speaking, the absence of constitutively
produced INMT transcripts in the brain does
not mean that they are never produced; many
events could potentially trigger INMT transcription
in the brain. A brief report published in 1977
claimed that INMT activity increases under stress
(electric shock and forced swim) in the rodent
brain [39]. Thus, a stress response which produces
large amounts of TYP in tissues could lead to significant
production of DMT. In addition, given the
presence of INMT transcripts in peripheral tissues,
DMT production could occur outside the brain and
still have activity in the brain because DMT can
readily cross the blood brain barrier. This would
be different from most neurotransmitters, which
do not have significant blood–brain-barrier permeability
and thus must be produced within the brain."
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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psychonaut
#15 Posted : 2/12/2009 12:20:25 AM
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Jorkest wrote:
it must be made in the lungs..haha ive actually heard its possible

I think that was when scientists were trying to explain bufo's psychoactivity, they proposed some enzyme that converted it into 5-MeO-DMT what was in the lungs, ridiculous!
 
Jorkest
#16 Posted : 2/12/2009 12:30:46 AM

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hahhaha
it's a sound
 
 
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