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Terence McKenna's last mushroom trip was in 1988! Options
 
CatholicPsychonaut
#1 Posted : 7/4/2012 5:38:25 AM

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Since coming here, I've encountered a good number of people with what seems to be a less-than-elevated opinion of Terence McKenna. Having been out of the loop in terms of the Psychedelic community or philosophy since basically right after he died, I'm interested in what the consensus seems to be about his life and his legacy now that we are on the verge of the end point of the Timewave.

Personally, I am the person I am today because of his body of work... Not just in terms of psychedelics, but my love of James Joyce, my interest in Alchemy, and philosophy, the fact that I ended up getting my degree in Anthropology. TM's writings were all seeds which grew into the collection of ideas that make me who I am.

I guess I assumed when I got here that there'd be a lot of folks my age (mid-30s) who were in the same boat, who'd been influenced by TM's work, who cried the day he died for a person they'd never actually met just because he was such a powerful influence on their lives.

I have, instead, encountered a lot of pushback whenever I bring up something Terence said on whatever topic. I wasn't expecting that at all, and I'm interested to get a clearer picture of the reasons why people don't like his body of work or "him" or whatever. Not because I want to argue and convince them otherwise, but because I really would like to get a better sense of what this community things of him. Maybe there's a lot of people who look up to him and I'm just encountering those who don't...

---EDITED--------
Weird synchronicities... Just as I was creating this thread, I found Lorenzo's latest podcast over at the Psychedelic Salon... Topic "The Deep Dive into the Mind of McKenna" which features a startling revelation from Dennis' new book "The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss"... That Terence had a very bad trip sometime in 1988 or '89..... AND NEVER TOOK MUSHROOMS AGAIN IN HIS LIFE!

http://matrixmasters.net...2/316-DamerDeepDive.mp3
"Christians often ask why God does not speak to them, as they believed God did in former days. When I hear such questions, it always makes me think of the Rabbi who was asked how it could be that God was manifest to people in the olden days whereas nowadays nobody ever sees God. The rabbi replied, 'Nowadays there is no longer anybody who can bow low enough.'"
--Carl Jung
 

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Felnik
#2 Posted : 7/4/2012 5:49:20 AM

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I think he's great. His lectures are amazing . He has had an important influence on me.
I think if you listen to him carefully he's very clear on where he stood.
Many people seem to misinterpret his thing.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
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Guyomech
#3 Posted : 7/4/2012 6:02:43 AM

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I haven't seen much in the way of negativity toward Terence here, and in fact have experienced the opposite- he is quoted here often.

However, a lot of people here don't like just accepting somebody's word on anything without challenging it. This is healthy and an indication of what a diverse group of independent thinkers there are here.

I personally benefitted in enormous ways, as you have, from Terence's work. I was privileged to be able to attend a 2 day workshop of his in Chicago shortly before he fell ill. I'm an artist, and a student of visual language; his phrase "the concrescence of linguistic intentionality" has been a bright clarifying point in my big picture of what I'm attempting to do as a creative person. I told him that in the hallway after the workshop. Then, nervous, I hurried put the door, hopped on the bus and headed home. Meanwhile, the rest of the group retired upstairs with Terence and got baked.

 
anrchy
#4 Posted : 7/4/2012 6:09:16 AM

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Probably for the same reason I see people discounting Rick strassman due to his comment on dmt being produced in the pineal gland.

They both have contributed greatly along with many others but some people attach to a single hypothesis that isnt presented as fact even though they take it that way and conplain that it isn't based on evidence. Just my thoughts
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r2pi
#5 Posted : 7/4/2012 6:18:18 AM
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Just as a general guess I would say that people who are interested in psychedelics are often the type of person who, when it comes to the psychospiritual realm, like to discover or work things out for themselves-- not be handed wisdom from someone else. Just a hunch. That's the way I work .. I don't really connect with someone else talking about these things, I need to go through them myself. That's not to say that what a guru or Terrence McKenna claims is wrong - it's just not a way of learning that works very well for me, which is why psychedelics are so appealing as an avenue for direct experience.

I have been meaning to dust off the McKenna books ... might give them another go!
 
christian
#6 Posted : 7/4/2012 6:21:42 AM

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CatholicPsychonaut wrote:
Since coming here, I've encountered a good number of people with what seems to be a less-than-elevated opinion of Terence McKenna.


I really like Terence Mckenna. As far as i'm concerned he has contributed more than anyone else in terms of his persona, personal trips to the Amazon, views, books, u tube videos, etc.
I'm probably wrong there, but he had a very likeable personality and was a very funny man. His brother Dennis is cool as well. Ok, there are other people out there who have their own books and studies, and that is good, but Terence was a legend because he had that amazing way that the others don't. He was a funguy! Very happy
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
anrchy
#7 Posted : 7/4/2012 6:44:13 AM

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I don't completely prescribe to his ideas. I like his view on things but some of his ideas are kind of out there and some even seem slightly illogical. But for the most part he is fun to listen to, has opened up many avenues of thought for me, and it sucks that he is no longer with us.

I have never been a follower type. Although in a way I did listen to the Rogan podcasts quite fanatically for awhile. That's really the only time I've become immersed in another person like that. I think you kind of have to feel the same about a majority or what someone believes in or thinks to do that, atleast for me.
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benzyme
#8 Posted : 7/4/2012 7:13:57 AM

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take his theories with a grain of salt, the same way you would with other theories. some are applicable/plausible, some aren't.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
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anrchy
#9 Posted : 7/4/2012 7:24:46 AM

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Exactly. And the more ideas you agree with the more apt you are to follow that person due to the understanding you have of that person.
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CatholicPsychonaut
#10 Posted : 7/4/2012 7:43:45 AM

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The strangeness of this revelation is that I am just coming off a 10 year psychedelic fast of my own.
"Christians often ask why God does not speak to them, as they believed God did in former days. When I hear such questions, it always makes me think of the Rabbi who was asked how it could be that God was manifest to people in the olden days whereas nowadays nobody ever sees God. The rabbi replied, 'Nowadays there is no longer anybody who can bow low enough.'"
--Carl Jung
 
christian
#11 Posted : 7/4/2012 8:28:36 AM

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anrchy wrote:
I did listen to the Rogan podcasts quite fanatically for awhile.


I liked Terences views on society, and liked his videos on things like the Archaic Revival. Terence fuses the all important blend of explaining his views on Psychadelics and society, and about shamanism, and i think he encompassed a greater whole than the rest did. Sure you can say some of his theories on elves or shroom eating apes may be questionable, but he was right about the wrongs of society and i thought he was well ahead of his time. Much of what he said is still valid today.Cool

As for mouthy Rogan, i saw a couple of his u tube videos and very quickly got bored with his exaggerated, big headed, know it all, and many times wrong vids.Wut?
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
Dante
#12 Posted : 7/4/2012 11:45:31 AM

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He said:
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.”
and I strongly resonate with it.
Listen to a man of experience: thou wilt learn more in the woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach thee more than thou canst acquire from the mouth of a master. St. Bernard
 
CatholicPsychonaut
#13 Posted : 7/4/2012 2:20:37 PM

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I fell asleep last night listening to the audio book of "True Hallucinations", and thinking about this new information, that Terence's trip basically occurred the year before the book came out, and essentially right at the beginning of his lecture career. He spent teen years telling people to do something that he himself was terrified of. How strange and sad.

It doesn't change the fact, however, that Terence helped shape me into the person I am today. Even if I'd only gotten grim him my love of Joyce and my interest in Alchemy, that would be enough of a gift for a lifetime.
"Christians often ask why God does not speak to them, as they believed God did in former days. When I hear such questions, it always makes me think of the Rabbi who was asked how it could be that God was manifest to people in the olden days whereas nowadays nobody ever sees God. The rabbi replied, 'Nowadays there is no longer anybody who can bow low enough.'"
--Carl Jung
 
Ringworm
#14 Posted : 7/4/2012 4:02:31 PM

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I appreciate the Philosophy of Ayn Rand, does this mean I want to go start a coal company with the intention of making a giant corporation? nope
I appreciate the Philosophy of Nietzsche, does this mean that everything he says is gospel? nope.
I appreciate Jesus, Buddha, Tommy Hall, Terrence McKenna, The Butthole Surfers, etc etc etc

I vote be your own guru and get over your hero worship. Does this mentality lessen my love and appreciation of those who went before? not at all.

If you want to cook something, you may look up 5-6 recipes to do so. Do you ardently adhere to one recipe because it works? or are you the type that uses it as a baseline and adds bits and pieces to fit what you want?
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christian
#15 Posted : 7/4/2012 4:36:46 PM

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Nobody here is saying Terence is their "GURU", what they are saying is that the man has spoken about stuff in a way that they can relate and understand. Terence was popular cos he was like shaggy from scooby doo, whilst the rest were dull dull dull!! Laughing
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
universecannon
#16 Posted : 7/4/2012 4:42:39 PM



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Ringworm wrote:
I appreciate the Philosophy of Ayn Rand, does this mean I want to go start a coal company with the intention of making a giant corporation? nope
I appreciate the Philosophy of Nietzsche, does this mean that everything he says is gospel? nope.
I appreciate Jesus, Buddha, Tommy Hall, Terrence McKenna, The Butthole Surfers, etc etc etc

I vote be your own guru and get over your hero worship. Does this mentality lessen my love and appreciation of those who went before? not at all.

If you want to cook something, you may look up 5-6 recipes to do so. Do you ardently adhere to one recipe because it works? or are you the type that uses it as a baseline and adds bits and pieces to fit what you want?


Terence hated the guru thing, and his whole point was that people should think for themselves. He often said not to believe him and experience things yourself, since your understanding is the only thing that's going to do you any good
The Nexian


<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
Mister_Niles
#17 Posted : 7/4/2012 4:45:50 PM

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I used to own a recording studio. Many years ago. I still give recording advice. Now, a recording session is nothing like a 5-7 gram mushroom trip. Much more grueling Very happy (depending on the band).
I for one never assumed that Terence was taking big trips all the time. I am actually relieved to hear this news. I'm in my 40's and the last thing I'd want to do is take 400mics of acid, but I still tell people about it and recommend lsd to some people.
Terence admits in one talk that he was tripping less and less frequently as he got older. Was he lying by omission by not telling people about his cessation of psilocybin intake? I suppose so. I hope it didn't hurt anyone, but even if he had come out and told everyone, some of his followers are so fanatical, they still would have been taking heroic doses.

I love Terence. I think his ideas are hilarious and psychedelic, profound and crazy. I've always seen him as a performer and a thinker. That's largely what he was. He frequently told people not to take his ideas too seriously. People do anyway. It can't be helped. His charisma is impossible to resist for some.

I forgive him. He was a flawed human being. We all are. He did a lot of good for the psychedelic community. He sure didn't do the damage that Leary did.
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jamie
#18 Posted : 7/4/2012 7:37:46 PM

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people want someone to point a finger at and complain about in reguards to either all the over the top new age psychedelic ideas, or the parts about mckenna they personally took to be literalization on his part..at least that has been my impression.

Mckenna told everyone to question everything..he made it clear what he was saying was not truth but just his ideas..and he always seemed to offer alternate ideas as well-especially in reguards to the elves and the other etc..he stated numerous times that this could very well be a part of our own selves that just seems to alien to our daily waking baseline consciousness. So, IMO a lot of the people who bash Mckenna based on his weird ideas of elves and aliens either never really listened to his full body of work-his lectures or they just did not really listen closely.

Yes, noone is perfect and noone is comming to the table with the full truth. I does not work that way. Mckenna once said(or quoted someone else) that "seeking enlightenment from another person is like a grain of seeking enlightenment from another grain of sand. I think he would have thought it silly for all these people to take everything he says so literally..so the fact that people want to complain about his ideas etc just seems silly. His body of work speaks for itself and IMO, there has never been another Terrence Mckenna. I wish I had been around the scene back then to attend a workshop.

In reguards to him not having mushrooms since 1988, where is that part in that talk? I know he had a hard trip that freaked him out but I dont remember the part where they mentioned him not taking them again..did he work with ayahuasca still?

Dennis Mckenna siad that when Terrence was dying he went to stay with him to finish the experiment they started at La Chorerra..so he def did trip again.

Edit..that link does not go to any single podcast..
 
dreamer042
#19 Posted : 7/4/2012 8:14:23 PM

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Here's a link to the podcast

Podcast 316 – “A Deep Dive Into the Mind of McKenna”
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

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blue lunar night
#20 Posted : 7/4/2012 8:18:44 PM

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Full link: Bruce Damer - 'A Deep Dive into the Mind of McKenna' (http://matrixmasters.net/archive/B2012/316-DamerDeepDive.mp3) (EDIT: beat me to it, dreamer Wink )

I was surprised by this revelation from Dennis' forthcoming book, but it doesn't make me lose any respect for Terence. Though as Damer notes, it does lend a more tragic quality to his life story.

In the talk it is asserted that Terence never took mushrooms again, but used other psychedelics at moderate doses and infrequently. (i'm sure Salvia was one of these, he seemed to have developed a fondness for it in later years).
It is implied that this information comes from Dennis's book.

Much Love for Terence, and major respect to Bruce Damer who carries his legacy !
 
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