I'm not sure exactly what is supposed to happen then. I've heard alot about the world ending and all this other crap. Naturally I'm, pretty skeptical. Mostly, I'd just like to know what the big hoopla is.

Well the Mayan calendar ends then, supposedly some astrological events will take place and then terrence mckenna infused the drug culture with his totally nonsensical novelty wave theory based on the I Ching that shows it ending on 2012. Mckennas idea is BS though because he sets the wave at an arbitrary starting point so many billions of years ago. At least thats my take if he moved it over to lets say 4.1 billions years (i dunnow here it starts i forget) the results would be different I think.

Anyway heres my theory, the mayans stopped counting, mckenna was tripping balls, and who cares about some astrological alignment. I am just looking forward to all the parties aaaaahahah. But that is just my take on all this. Its just a date like any other date. If we want society to start changing for the better we have to make that happen not some star aligning with some other star halfway around the galaxy or whatever ideas people have about aliens landing in our brains and showing us the light.

yes the mayas didnt say the world would end at 2012, it was the stop of the count, which some interpret as 'end of the world' and others as just the beginning of a new count

a lot of the mayan calender knowledge that is spread around the new age people comes from some dude called jose arguelles, which totally made up his own interpretation and is disagreed upon by many scholars.

obviously, there's a lot of crap piled up in this new age 2012 stuff, we all know this... but is there something beyond all this crap?

Im quite skeptical myself of things, but I am open to the possibility there might be something then.. I mean, just think about it, we definitely are in some sort of global transition moment. All the technological boom that has been happening just before this 2012 date, incredibly fast advances, together with big struggles and so on. At the same time, its pretty obvious things cant continue going the same way. It is just not possible for earth and society to sustain the population growth, for consumerism to continue expanding, for hollywood suburbs and fashion/gossip magazines to continue as usual. Something HAS to change, and WILL change, one way or another, and we are on the brink of this change..

Is it just coincidence that this is all happening just before the 'transition' 2012 date? Hard to say, but in any case its all pretty peculiar. We do know the mayans had an extremely advanced astronomical knowledge, and they did make some sort of predictions based on it (if im not mistaken they also predicted the end of their classic empire)

btw, as for novelty theory... indeed I also have a problem with it, and dont think mckenna is to be taken literally all the time.. but burnt, did you ever actually look at his 'software'? I mean, take for example right now, starting at the end of 2008, there was predicted a HUGE something happening, coinciding with all this economic crisis.. Is it also just coincidence? I dont know but its pretty interesting also.



as for 2012 websites, well.. google is your friend, I wouldnt even know where to start.. but have your internal crap-detector turned on, as you'll find some of the most incredible non-sense dressed in pretty clothes.

Once as a child I started counting for fun, but I just stopped counting when I reached up to 1549 cause I got bored. And OMG, the time right now is 15:49, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I have checked it out not in a long time though. Yes his dates do match up with events but the importance of an event is a very relative thing. But yea my main issue is his starting point he just picked an arbitrary date. Don't get me wrong mckenna was a cool philosopher but sometimes his stories and ideas people take too seriously. I must admit though my understanding of the I Ching is very limited so I can't say much about it.

i know you're joking but its not that simple.. the mayas didnt simply stop counting at a random point. If you know their calenders (I only very superficially do), then you also know it is based in cycles, related to astronomical events. The final date is the winter solstice, and definitely at the end of one big cycle. Obviously they didnt express there were no more cycles after (so end-of-the-world thing is pure speculation), but its for sure some important date. Whether this will mean it will be important to us too, its up to each one's opinion (and to waiting a few more years )



yes I know burnt, we're actually very similar minded. I also think mckenna was a cool philosopher, its inspiring to listen to his talks (and he definitely had his way with words), but that one shouldnt take all his words as Truth. But thats what he said himself.. he even said that the worst resolution to all what he does is if there started some sort of 'mckenna cult', and that each one should always test things against his experience and facts and so on... He loved some wild speculation though

The calendar had to end. You can't have a written calendar that is infinite. So they picked a convenient year to end it. They picked a time of the year that is considered a good ending point because it’s the end of that year. That's all.

Because many people have added their own special meaning to 2012, and they believe that something special will happen then something special will happen because people will make it happen out of their belief that it should happen.

They will be lots of 2012 parties. I will join the fun. I don’t expect anything to happen other than events created by people thinking something should happen.

However, there’s always the possibility that 2012 was picked because that’s the year the world get hits by a very large asteroid or some other heavenly body which the Mayans calculated would occur. But then, why wouldn’t the Mayans have foretold of the event? They don’t talk about any such thing happening in 2012. All they left was the ending of their calendar in 2012. There’s no hint from them that anything at all will happen on that date, if I’m not mistaken.

If it was known by a few of the governments that the planet was going to be hit by a large asteroid that would wipe out life on earth as we know it, and there was no possible way to survive it, they wouldn’t tell anyone. So, maybe the Mayans had a similar way of looking at it. Maybe they predicted something of that nature and didn’t mention it because they didn’t want to alarm anyone. If there’s nothing you can do about it, why know about it? But still, I think nothing will happen in 2012.

Actually the date is a the representation of a rare alignment that happens once every 25,800 years... The sun, the earth, and the moon will be aligned in the center of the galaxy to the EXACT DEGREE. It's not just a date that sounded nice as you describe, it has far more wisdom behind it. The mayans were THE most advanced skymappers, and they most advanced calander keepers.. having over 200 different calanders that all measure different increments of time, big and small. The sun and the earth are responsible for sustaining life, and therefore the mayans viewed them metaphorically as the mother and father. In the center of our galaxy (where the alignment occurs) resides an enormous black hole, which the Mayans believed was the source and creation point of all things within this galaxy. Metaphorically, the black hole is the cosmic womb. Therefore, on the winter solstice of 2012, The mother and father will align with the cosmic womb for the first time in 58,600 years. Honestly, you clearly haven't researched the reasoning behind the calander end-date and probably shouldn't provide people with unfounded information. I don't mean this in any hostile way, I appreciate all of your intelligent posts here, but there is just so much misinformation on this topic thrown out there and it kinda gets to me

You're right, I haven't researched it much at all. I’m just stating my opinion. I still believe nothing will happen other than a few parties here and there. And if what you say is correct, it sounds like a good point to end the calendar on a day that means something to the Mayans, and still indicates nothing of any real significance to life on earth.

I’ll bet you a billion dollars that in 2013, things will be pretty much the same as they are now regardless on any alignment that may happen in 2012.

2012 is only 3 years from now so start saving up your billion dollars if you are willing to take the bet.

While you are right this is how the calculated their calendar in terms of cycles in the sky, buuuuut there is no indication that anything special happens during these cosmic cycles in terms of directly effecting the human mind.



Actually modern man is the most advanced skymappers. We can see further and compute better then they ever were able too.



That's true but again what does that have to do with changing human minds?



We only recently figured out that super massive black hole reside at the center of most galaxies. Are you telling me the mayans were aware of this object known as a super massive black hole? I doubt it. They may have viewed the center of the galaxy as something important because everything is going around it and thus had some myths related to it but to say that they knew much of anything about super massive black holes is silly.




Again yes ok some alignment but what the heck does that have to do with human minds? I believe nothing.

Well what about this.
We all know that the sun and moon affect the tides due to their gravitational pull. And when the sun and moon align with Earth, we get Spring tides, which are unusually low or high tides, dependant on where in the planet you are. Now bearing in mind the human body is something like 70% water, (we are actually more liquid that we are solid), i find it hard not to believe that such an event would effect us in someway or another. It may be subtle, but i still think it would have some kind of effect. Soooo, maybe this galatic alignment may be a giant galactic version of a spring tide, big enough to shift our consciousness in some way
Just a thought!

Well lunar cycles certainly effect menstrual cycles and things like that. But to say that its going to directly effect human free will and mind is a bit unfounded. But then again I don't buy into astrology and all that stuff either and this falls into the same category. That's just my take on it all though.

well.. its obvious we are affected by everything.. people around us, what they say or do, how long has it been since we ate, if we live in a cold place or hot place, etc etc..

Together with this, we see that cycles are very important for nature, in many different levels, and that many of these cycles seem to be synchronized.

Taking this together, i think its reasonable to consider the possibility that also the astronomical objects have some kind of influence on us.

With this said, I do not buy into general astrology or any of this new age stuff because, as always, its loaded with crap. I mean, just think of all the newspaper astrology and so on... All I am saying is that I dont think its unreasonable if someone wants, with a more or less independent mind, research into this and see if he can find (or not) some patterns in his inner life that match patterns in nature/celestial bodies.

I personally wont do this because I feel there are more important things to do with my life right now (like posting in forums, lol haha.. well, but you know what I mean). But whoever feels like it, as long as the person has a 'skeptical' side that prevents him/her from blindly following some belief, then its all fine by me and I would be interested in hearing any genuine information and experiments regarding this


btw, I seem to remember stanislav grof talking about some research they did about how certain astronomical events had patterned influences specially on psychedelic trips, but I never researched more into it, into their method and actual results to see what that was about... might be interesting

I know a guy who only holds Aya ceremonies on full moons in as he is more interested in raising peoples vibrations. I attended one last month, but im not really well experience enough with aya trips to know if this was any different to ceremonies held non-full moon. Havin said that though, the after glow has been very persistant for the weks that followed, iv been feeling really great and uplifted ever since.I didnt get such a strong afterglow after my first aya ceremony. My be pyschological, but the bottom line is i still feel great.

Yes I am not closed to the possibility that things on large scales and large objects with strong gravitational forces have some influence on life. Its not unreasonable to make such a claim and there are indications that the moon and sun do things like this. I just think people take it too far and often make outlandish claims with no backing. That's my only real objection.

As far as tripping on astrological events remember that just because we consider some circular pattern significant doesn't mean it really is. That's a human relative perception on nature. So if its one's mind that tripping on this date or that date means something more then it will mean something more to that person.

I like your optimism. Yes something does have to change for us to sustain human life on this planet, but I believe the fact of the matter is that nothing will change. We will consume until human life on this planet is extinguished. Yes we will make more effecient systems of energy, production, farming. But this will help us consume faster, not less. And then after all is said and done mother earth will scoff at the fact that we ever existed and that we really thought that we had a huge impact on her.

Yeah, we are the next dinosaur in the making, ready for extinction sometime in the next few centuries, and we’ll likely be replaced by something even better.

well at least as we currently are, its sure not going to continue, but maybe not all people will become extinct (you know, there's always some persistent human being safe in some cave or something haha)


maybe the survivors will remember the shit of the 'old world' and build something better.. or maybe it screws up again in the future.. doesnt matter in the end, at least for me. All that matters is to make a life worth living, striving for inner development, and like indigenous people, trying to have our grandgrandchildren (and also the ancestors) in mind in every action I take.

Whatever happens, I must continue this, and if some big change occurs, then try to adapt, and if not possible, then die with a clear conscience.

Whoa now... never did I EVER try to convince you something profound was going to happen to the human mind. I never even hinted at that- I was simply explaining the reasoning behind the end date- not arguing that something is going to happen. There is a distinct difference, and I'm not really sure how you got to thinking I was attempting to make you a believer. About the black hole that we've only recently discovered, YES that Mayans were aware of it 2,000 years ago- any scholar who has studied Mayan iconography and astronomy would agree with this information. Our astronomy is literally just beginning to catch up to the Mayans... if you don't believe me, LOOK IT UP! I'm surprised you haven't asked how they knew the sun and earth will be aligned in the center of the galaxy to the exact degree... I would imagine that's harder to predict than a black hole being at the center of a galaxy. Anyways, it's due to something called precession which is a wobbling like motion caused by the gravitational pull from ALL objects in the sky. Due to this motion, they will align. Precession has only been incorporated in western astronomy within the last century, however the Mayan astronomer-shamans were aware of it over 2,000 years ago. If you are skeptical, good- I'm a skeptic too... all you have to do is look into it for yourself. You obviously don't know much about Mayan astronomy so it is very unfair of you to say we're more advanced astronomers than they are... you don't know anything about their astronomy! Certainly we can see further, but they knew some incredibly amazing stuff that western astronomy is only now uncovering.

Actually, the Mayan callendar is 10,000 times more accurate than the one we use today.