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Took Rue and MHRB last night: Help me figure out what happened please! Options
 
behindthelight
#1 Posted : 5/12/2012 5:14:25 PM
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Ok, so I made a rue tea with 8g of rue. Then I made a mhrb tea using 10g of mhrb.


I drank the rue at 10:30 and then at 10:45 I took the mhrb tea. I only drank about half of the mhrb tea though because I almost threw up twice trying to swallow. Stuff is fucking brutal. There was these sediment in the bottom of the glass and that stuff is nasty. I filtered it threw some cloth and there was still sediment in it.

I felt nothing for about the first 30 minutes. Then I started feeling a little sick. Then at midnight I went in the bathroom and threw up big time. Pretty violently and it came out of nowhere. I didn't see that coming at all. So I had a decent trip for about 5 hours.

So, here are my questions:

1. If I didn't take the mhrb, would I still have tripped like that just on the rue?

2. Did I throw up from the rue? or from the mhrb?

3. I don't think I could ever drink the mhrb again by itself. Can I brew the 2 together? Can I get rid of that sediment? or is the sediment important?

4. I keep hearing about "tannins" and that you can take them out with an egg white. What are tannins and why are they bad?

Thanks for any answers?
 

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amazingino
#2 Posted : 5/12/2012 5:28:38 PM

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behindthelight wrote:
1. If I didn't take the mhrb, would I still have tripped like that just on the rue?

Unless you go into more details about your trip, no way we can answer this question, just telling "decent trip" is not enough Smile
If that can help you, Rue is not very visual without DMT so if you had intense visuals it was both DMT & Rue, if not, then probably mostly Rue.

behindthelight wrote:
2. Did I throw up from the rue? or from the mhrb?

From my limited, vaporized only rue experience, I get slight nausea only after vaporizing DMT. The Rue alone doesn't make me nauseous. It was reported that at higher dose it can be very nauseous by itself though. 8g of Rue seems a decent dose IMO, standard dose is 3-5g but it depends on your metabolism of course.

behindthelight wrote:
3. I don't think I could ever drink the mhrb again by itself. Can I brew the 2 together? Can I get rid of that sediment? or is the sediment important?

You can brew them together and you can also try to extract DMT from MHRB and make some DMT Fumarate for example or chose another DMT plant for your mixture.

behindthelight wrote:
4. I keep hearing about "tannins" and that you can take them out with an egg white. What are tannins and why are they bad?

Tannins are various organic plant compounds and are not necessarily "bad", but can cause some stomach discomfort if lot of it.

Hope that helps Smile
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flickedbic
#3 Posted : 5/12/2012 7:25:20 PM

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Heard a mixed bag on tannins; they bind to and cleans out toxins when purged; but excess can be carcinogenic?

My dog is amazed by what comes out with the eggwhite... it solidifies into this huge mass *shudder*.

My dog has never drunk MHRB tea without the eggwhite fining. He hears plant gelatin works also for the vegans.

8 grams rue is a high dose; when my dog did 8 grams rue (alone) tea he was having massive tracers happening and felt kind of drunken; coordination off... is this similar to your experience?

If so probably mostly a rue experience.

Everything contributed to the purge; seretonergic nausea from DMT and Harmalas, all those tannins in the stomach, rue solids...

Filter out/decant away from those solids/grit at the bottom (except with Caapi brew)!

Yea rue and MHRB can be brewed together in the same pot (but ya may need to drink twice to get the effects).

Seretonergic nausea from MAOI and DMT can be prevented using Lemon essential oil predose (5 or 6 drops diluted in olive oil in a capsule, or a cap with 3 drops 5 minutes before the rue and another 3 drop cap with the MHRB).



Blessings.

All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

Any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Without prejudice.
 
behindthelight
#4 Posted : 5/12/2012 8:22:24 PM
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amazingino wrote:
behindthelight wrote:
1. If I didn't take the mhrb, would I still have tripped like that just on the rue?

Unless you go into more details about your trip, no way we can answer this question, just telling "decent trip" is not enough Smile
If that can help you, Rue is not very visual without DMT so if you had intense visuals it was both DMT & Rue, if not, then probably mostly Rue.

behindthelight wrote:
2. Did I throw up from the rue? or from the mhrb?

From my limited, vaporized only rue experience, I get slight nausea only after vaporizing DMT. The Rue alone doesn't make me nauseous. It was reported that at higher dose it can be very nauseous by itself though. 8g of Rue seems a decent dose IMO, standard dose is 3-5g but it depends on your metabolism of course.

behindthelight wrote:
3. I don't think I could ever drink the mhrb again by itself. Can I brew the 2 together? Can I get rid of that sediment? or is the sediment important?

You can brew them together and you can also try to extract DMT from MHRB and make some DMT Fumarate for example or chose another DMT plant for your mixture.

behindthelight wrote:
4. I keep hearing about "tannins" and that you can take them out with an egg white. What are tannins and why are they bad?

Tannins are various organic plant compounds and are not necessarily "bad", but can cause some stomach discomfort if lot of it.

Hope that helps Smile


Yes, very helpful. Thanks.

1. It wasn't that visual. Little bit of CEV for about 30 minutes and that is it. The trip was mostly a body load trip. Shaky hands and my eyes took a second or two to focus on stuff.
 
behindthelight
#5 Posted : 5/12/2012 8:25:48 PM
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flickedbic wrote:
8 grams rue is a high dose; when my dog did 8 grams rue (alone) tea he was having massive tracers happening and felt kind of drunken; coordination off... is this similar to your experience?

If so probably mostly a rue experience.




I had very slight tracers and CEV's for about 30 minutes. Yeah, I felt a little drunken and my coordination was off....
 
jamie
#6 Posted : 5/13/2012 5:04:41 AM

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you have some very abnormal tolerance going on there..I would completely break through with a dose like that for many many hours and probly be sick all night. 8g of rue is a very large dose..especially when taken with 5g of mimosa!
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behindthelight
#7 Posted : 5/13/2012 6:51:42 AM
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jamie wrote:
you have some very abnormal tolerance going on there..I would completely break through with a dose like that for many many hours and probly be sick all night. 8g of rue is a very large dose..especially when taken with 5g of mimosa!


yeah man, I have a very high tolerance to pretty much everything....it sucks so bad....I did 9 grams of shrooms tonight.....and it was just ok......I think it is a combination of me doing shrooms last Saturday which is not long enough of a break IMO for shrooms....definitely needs at least a month for it to be really strong.............and I did the rue and mhrb last night which I think had effect on the shrooms tonight.....I definitely need to take a break...... lol
 
mew
#8 Posted : 5/13/2012 7:57:12 AM

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@ behindthelight

you are going to get slapped

and somewhere in your spanking you will hear

"silly monkey, you only thought you knew"




i would encourage going as far as you can by refining your techniques at normal dosages, not just cranking the dose and refining your technique simultaneously, or else its all going to come together in a way you never thought possible. for the best though, always. lest you be hauled away in a straight jacket screaming "THE NEXUS IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!!"

now i lol

lol
 
un-known-ome
#9 Posted : 5/13/2012 9:11:45 AM

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@behindthelight This sounds not much unlike the worst psychedelic experience I've had to date: four grams of syrian rue seeds boiled in citric acid left me vomiting every half-hour for three hours afterward. I never even got around to drinking the mhrb I had prepared. I knew instantly that I was going to get sick, and thankfully that was all that happened.

1) Yes you would've tripped from rue alone at that dose. It is possible that you drank the mhrb too soon after consuming the rue.

2) If you properly made the syrian rue tea, 8 grams would likely cause serious nausea and vomiting. This leads me to believe that the tea was not particularly potent. 3 grams will get you where you want to be.

3) Yes, and I recommend filtering out the sediment.

4) Tannins are not of great concern.

Tolerance aside, 8 grams of syrian rue seeds in combination with 5 grams of mhrb would be extremely psychoactive, so I think you should review your method of preparation. Also, I find it VERY difficult to believe that 9 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms wouldn't have you in another dimension. 2 gram is "just ok" but 9 is something else entirely. You don't build that kind of tolerance in a week's time, let alone ever. Next time, prepare 3 grams of syrian rue and just 1 gram of mhrb by simmering in acidic solution (e.g. vinegar) over many hours, drink an hour apart, and that alone will make you trip HARD.
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3rdI
#10 Posted : 5/13/2012 9:39:41 AM

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un-known-ome wrote:


Tolerance aside, 8 grams of syrian rue seeds in combination with 5 grams of mhrb would be extremely psychoactive, so I think you should review your method of preparation. Also, I find it VERY difficult to believe that 9 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms wouldn't have you in another dimension. 2 gram is "just ok" but 9 is something else entirely. You don't build that kind of tolerance in a week's time, let alone ever. Next time, prepare 3 grams of syrian rue and just 1 gram of mhrb by simmering in acidic solution (e.g. vinegar) over many hours, drink an hour apart, and that alone will make you trip HARD.


Maybe you should just believe what behindthelight says, just because you would be heavily effected by 9g of shrooms doesn't mean everyone would.

I would have no effects from 3g of rue and 1g of mimosa
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

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tetra
#11 Posted : 5/13/2012 1:25:06 PM

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un-known-ome wrote:


Also, I find it VERY difficult to believe that 9 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms wouldn't have you in another dimension. 2 gram is "just ok" but 9 is something else entirely. You don't build that kind of tolerance in a week's time, let alone ever.


Try not to be so sure about peoples' tolerance to various substances. While you read someone doing 9 grams of shrooms and think "whaaaat???" I say: yep, same for me, my tolerance is like this as well with most substances, DMT included. I find it odd when people point to the Strassman study on DMT tolerance as conclusive. He tested, what, a few dozen people or so? And that's supposed to represent the entire human race? No, people react differently to different substances. Sure, MOST may agree on similar doses, but there are those of us, like myself and the OP, that just need more, whether from a fluke of genetics or what I couldn't tell you.
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evil804
#12 Posted : 5/13/2012 3:00:26 PM

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i dont buy the tannins/sediment/plant matter/etc... cause nausea. I did a lot of consumption before i got an active dose, and found I can take 4G rue on its own, and have no nausea. i can eat 5G of powdered MHRB on its own, and have no nausea. Combine the 4G rue and 5G MHRB = nausea. Even pharma with pure spice and harmine = Nausea. Its the combination of actives, not the plant matter that cause nausea. Black tea is loaded with tannins, yet it never produces nausea in people.

the stomach has serotonin/5HT receptors. DMT has an affinity for the serotonin receptor. inactive DMT, no stomach 5HT activation, no nausea. MAOi inhibited, DMT active, DMT is active on stomach 5HT receptors while entering the blood= nausea. There is a reason you can judge how strong the trip is going to be by the nausea. IMO, the only thing an egg white tek reduces is potency. If you want cleaner rue tea, you need to base out the actives like in Gibran's tek. Its amazingly simple to do.

Orally active DMT is going to make you nauseous, no way past it.
 
endlessness
#13 Posted : 5/13/2012 3:09:41 PM

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I agree and disagree. It is known that nausea can be greated by serotonin signalling in the guts, and hence why some people eat ginger (for galanolactone) or take lemon oil (for beta-pinene), which are 5-HT3 antagonists and diminsh nausea. It is also true that even pure compounds can cause nausea.

BUT, at the same time, nausea is a complex phenomenon that can be a mix of several things. I mean, think about it, some people vomit if they see something disgusting, so there is also the psychological aspect to it too. Also for some people, certain foods can cause nausea even if it's not necessary chemically-related.

Also, just because green tea doesnt cause nausea usually isnt necessarily a proof that 'something' in mimosa/rue /caapi appart from alkaloids can contribute to nausea. Maybe its different kind of tannins in tea vs the entheogens? Maybe its some other substance, plant matter, etc that also contributes to it?

I really dont know, but what I can say from personal experience is that Ive had very strong ayahuasca or also pharmahuasca doses where I had 0 nausea, as well as those I had tons of nausea, and same with weak experiences.. It seems to vary a lot. I think having eaten something light during the day, as well as trying the ginger thing, can help with nausea, but its not sure and nausea could always come in with any psychedelic
 
un-known-ome
#14 Posted : 5/13/2012 9:22:47 PM

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tetra wrote:
un-known-ome wrote:


Also, I find it VERY difficult to believe that 9 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms wouldn't have you in another dimension. 2 gram is "just ok" but 9 is something else entirely. You don't build that kind of tolerance in a week's time, let alone ever.


Try not to be so sure about peoples' tolerance to various substances. While you read someone doing 9 grams of shrooms and think "whaaaat???" I say: yep, same for me, my tolerance is like this as well with most substances, DMT included. I find it odd when people point to the Strassman study on DMT tolerance as conclusive. He tested, what, a few dozen people or so? And that's supposed to represent the entire human race? No, people react differently to different substances. Sure, MOST may agree on similar doses, but there are those of us, like myself and the OP, that just need more, whether from a fluke of genetics or what I couldn't tell you.


I have no empirical evidence of anyone else's tolerance to any given substance and do not claim to. Tolerance varies greatly with everything. I also do not mean any disrespect or that the OP is being dishonest--that's not my style.

I would think that with tryptamines, tolerance is linked to serotonin levels with lower serotonin levels explaining a high tolerance, so maybe that's it. When someone says they took "X" amount of something and go on to say that the effects were much less pronounced than what "X" would normally produce, I always have some questions. In this case, did they weigh out the amount on a calibrated scale? Were they completely dry? What strain? How were they stored? Any other medications? What did you eat earlier that day? And regardless of the answers to those questions, two individuals could have a similar experience, but one might report it as being unimpressive while the other might report it as being intense. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I don't believe everything I read in online forums, nor should anyone. When I see someone consume 9 grams of mushrooms firsthand and only have threshold effects, I'll believe it. And then again, it's possible that drinking the rue and mhrb the night before inhibited the effects of the psilocybin. Who can really say for sure.

@3rdI Three grams of rue and one gram of mhrb might not give you effects, BUT the minimum amount of rue for MAO inhibition and virtually any amount of mhrb would likely work. I've taken at most 15 grams of mhrb which was incredibly powerful, but I've also taken an exceedingly low amount and know that while it is not nearly as strong, it still produces muted effects, just like smoking less than a threshold dose of freebase produces effects. Microdosing mimosahuasca is a very interesting experience.
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jamie
#15 Posted : 5/13/2012 9:39:16 PM

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Psilocin/psilocybin tolerance should only be like 3 or 4 days. I used to eat mushrooms all the time and never had tolerance ever 4 days later..if you need more than a week and up to a month for the tolerance to be gone than I would say that is more evidence to suggest that your nervous system responds differently to these things than most other peoples. Eating mushrooms(even gigantic doses like 9g) last saturday should not have effected this experience..the tolerance would have been gone by this point with most people...very strange.
Long live the unwoke.
 
behindthelight
#16 Posted : 5/14/2012 12:49:05 AM
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Ok, thanks for all the input and help from everyone. Here is some more info:

1. My shrooms are definitely good shit. I grew them myself. They are completely cracker dry. I have done shrooms about 25 times in the past year so I am familiar with the power of shrooms and what they should feel like. I had some penis envy shrooms that I got from someone else that totally wrecked me and mine do the same thing when I take a long time off and don't do rue. I have eaten them and made tea out of them.

2. Even though they say you can do shrooms every 4-5 days, I find this to be 100% false. There have been a couple time of the past year where I did 7 grams of shrooms every Saturday for about 5 Saturdays in a row and each one was not as good as the previous ones. So then I did a test, I took 3 weeks off and then did 7 grams again and it was incredible. So for me, 4-5 days is NOT enough to totally get rid of the tolerance, maybe for other it works, not for me though.

3. A couple weeks ago I took 4 grams of Rue and then 15 minutes later took 5 grams of shrooms. My shroom trip kicked in hard and then about 20 minutes later the trip completely went away and I was fine. Then about 90 minutes later the trip came back, but it was not that intense. I am 100% sure that the rue messed it up. So last night when the 9 grams of shrooms didn't completely floor me, I know it is because I did the 8 grams of rue and mhrb the night before plus the 7 grams of shrooms a week earlier.

4. I am going to take a month off and then do 9 grams again and I will report back my findings.

5. Above someone was mentioning that they think I didn't prepare the rue correctly because they think 8 grams should have did a lot more to me than it did. All I can say is that I took 8 grams of Rue seeds and boiled them for about 45 minutes, let it cool in the fridge and then drank it. Not sure what else there is to do.

6. Twice in the past month I took 3-4 grams of rue (tea and swallowing seeds) and it didn't do anything to me. So I definitely feel like I need a higher does, that is why I tried the 8 grams and it actually worked. I couldn't believe it.

7. Just for a reference point, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Kratom, but it is suppose to have a cool effect when you take it. So a guy on another board told me to order some. So I got some from one of the big sites on the net that we are all familiar with. he said to take like 2 grams and see what happens. Well, I ended up taking 17 grams in about a 45 minute period and I felt NOTHING. I then sent that exact same batch that I was using to the guy that got me to try the Kratom and he said it was good shit and it worked for him really well only taking a couple grams.

8. I'm definitely gonna mess around with the rue some more and see what I find. I still haven't tried caapi yet, that should be interesting. I have a bunch of caapi, but I haven't bothered using it yet.

9. So I'm not sure why this stuff effects me differently than others, but everything I listed here is the 100% truth.

10. Thanks for the help. Smile
 
un-known-ome
#17 Posted : 5/14/2012 3:10:07 AM

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behindthelight wrote:
Ok, thanks for all the input and help from everyone. Here is some more info:

1. My shrooms are definitely good shit. I grew them myself. They are completely cracker dry. I have done shrooms about 25 times in the past year so I am familiar with the power of shrooms and what they should feel like. I had some penis envy shrooms that I got from someone else that totally wrecked me and mine do the same thing when I take a long time off and don't do rue. I have eaten them and made tea out of them.

2. Even though they say you can do shrooms every 4-5 days, I find this to be 100% false. There have been a couple time of the past year where I did 7 grams of shrooms every Saturday for about 5 Saturdays in a row and each one was not as good as the previous ones. So then I did a test, I took 3 weeks off and then did 7 grams again and it was incredible. So for me, 4-5 days is NOT enough to totally get rid of the tolerance, maybe for other it works, not for me though.

3. A couple weeks ago I took 4 grams of Rue and then 15 minutes later took 5 grams of shrooms. My shroom trip kicked in hard and then about 20 minutes later the trip completely went away and I was fine. Then about 90 minutes later the trip came back, but it was not that intense. I am 100% sure that the rue messed it up. So last night when the 9 grams of shrooms didn't completely floor me, I know it is because I did the 8 grams of rue and mhrb the night before plus the 7 grams of shrooms a week earlier.

4. I am going to take a month off and then do 9 grams again and I will report back my findings.

5. Above someone was mentioning that they think I didn't prepare the rue correctly because they think 8 grams should have did a lot more to me than it did. All I can say is that I took 8 grams of Rue seeds and boiled them for about 45 minutes, let it cool in the fridge and then drank it. Not sure what else there is to do.

6. Twice in the past month I took 3-4 grams of rue (tea and swallowing seeds) and it didn't do anything to me. So I definitely feel like I need a higher does, that is why I tried the 8 grams and it actually worked. I couldn't believe it.

7. Just for a reference point, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Kratom, but it is suppose to have a cool effect when you take it. So a guy on another board told me to order some. So I got some from one of the big sites on the net that we are all familiar with. he said to take like 2 grams and see what happens. Well, I ended up taking 17 grams in about a 45 minute period and I felt NOTHING. I then sent that exact same batch that I was using to the guy that got me to try the Kratom and he said it was good shit and it worked for him really well only taking a couple grams.

8. I'm definitely gonna mess around with the rue some more and see what I find. I still haven't tried caapi yet, that should be interesting. I have a bunch of caapi, but I haven't bothered using it yet.

9. So I'm not sure why this stuff effects me differently than others, but everything I listed here is the 100% truth.

10. Thanks for the help. Smile


I also tried Kratom capsules several months back, and found that all I got out of the experience was a serious case of dope dick and only the faintest opiate buzz, so I won't be giving it another chance.

I have really only recently begun to explore psychedelics so I'm still new to all of this stuff. I find the subject of psychedelics to be rather fascinating, as do I find their pharmacology. If what you're saying is accurate--and it sounds like it is--then it is of great curiosity to me and something I am interested to know more about. At the same time, I am also trying to rationalize and to contribute my own knowledge that has come out of personal experience. I have never consumed mushrooms the day after consuming syrian rue seeds, so I can't either confirm or deny that. The harmalas in Syrian Rue are supposed to potentiate psilocybin similar to the way they work with DMT, so if anything that should intensify the mushroom trip. I have not done this myself, but it is my next project. In terms of preparing rue, I pulverize the seeds and boil in water/vinegar for no more than an hour. Any longer is not necessary. The rue does not need to be psychoactive to be inhibiting MAO.

To further address your original post: I am absolutely positive that at 8 grams you experienced the effects peganum harmala, which also caused you to vomit. Unless DMT does not affect you, of which there have been cases, then you would have had without question a moderate intensity ayahuasca journey. That being the case, I recommend that you do the following: make a cup or less of syrian rue tea from 4 grams, not 8, because you may become nauseous and vomit again from the rue alone. Also prepare gelatin from 5 grams of mhrb. Drink the syrian on an empty stomach. Forty-five minutes to any our later, consume the gelatin. T+45 min. the trip should start coming on, and then you'll be golden for the next five hours or so. If this does not work, I will be flabbergasted. Good luck.
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behindthelight
#18 Posted : 5/14/2012 4:26:50 AM
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Yeah, I have read many times that Syrian Rue is suppose to make a shroom trip better....but for me, it makes it worse.


I love your gelatin idea.....that is genius...I will be trying that for sure.

Thanks for the tip.
 
mew
#19 Posted : 5/14/2012 7:16:13 AM

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@ behindthelight

i stopped reading after "my shrooms are good shit" and "cracker dry"

.... id like to use this oppurtunity to remind you that p cubensis whether grown by you or not are still an entheogenic sacrament, not a thugish narcotic. respect them with the language you use, please.

secondly. cracker dry shrooms ( i assume a dehydrator was used, and overused at that) do not contain psilocin any longer, just psiolcybin (i may have switched those) when totally dry the psilocin breaks down rendering the potency less. i assume that different strains and approaches to growing yield different ratios of psilocin to psilocybin and wouldnt be surprised that somewhere sometime someone grew some potent fresh shrooms (full of psilocin) but when they were dried they became inert.

i recommend airdying your mushrooms to a point they wont culture molds but not totally anhydrous (this method utilized room temperature instead of 155 degrees f, which after prolonged exposure WILL break psilocin down)

again i may be misinformed as to which breaks down, psilocin or psilocybin but from my reading and experience growing and picking wild, fresh mushrooms have a totally different feel to them and come on much faster


next time why dont you try eating 9 g of shrooms with 8 grams of rue, fuck man, just eat the rue in globs, dont bother making tea swallow as much as you can powdered and your shrooms, cant wait to hear about that Twisted Evil
 
mew
#20 Posted : 5/14/2012 7:18:59 AM

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tolerance to p cubensis is 4-5 days no matter the dosage

you can do them every week on sunday and always have 0 tolerance (that is to say you havent been doing drugs that contain cross tolerance effects)
 
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