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Iboga in USA Options
 
humblebee
#1 Posted : 5/5/2012 10:59:26 PM

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So it's illegal to ship iboga to usa? Sad
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SpireCatalyst
#2 Posted : 5/5/2012 11:20:09 PM

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Yeah, the whole using things that make sense for personal benefit thing has yet to catch on here in the states. I know, sarcasm isn't helpful. But yeah, iboga/ibogaine...etc. illegal.
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mew
#3 Posted : 5/7/2012 7:23:06 AM

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any part of t iboga is a schedule 1 felony in the usa, inlcuding ibogaine...

schedule 1 means there is no medical use for the substance and therefore it is only hazardous
its ironic when government funded studies regarding iboga/ibogaine conclude unequivocally that it is not only an applicable medical treatment for opiate addiction, but unrivaled as a medicine for those suffering in that way

the same thing goes for psilocin/psilocybin, yet studies done by the same government that declares they are medically irelevent show it to be an effective treatment when dealing with late stage terminal cancer patients, treating them psychologically to accept their fate consequently increasing the quality of life they have left exponentially...


the laws are a travesty and only through spreading truth can they finally dissolve and evolve into more logical parameters.

change from within the broken system rather than fighting the whole thing with revolution, its going to be a while longer before we can see the blooms of our communal efforts, sadly
 
Dan
#4 Posted : 5/7/2012 1:16:17 PM

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its much easier to order a seedpod or seeds than the root itself.

grow more iboga! Thumbs up
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purple_dye
#5 Posted : 8/19/2012 10:46:59 PM

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I cant seem to find any sources regarding the legal status of the seeds.
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ntwhtyouknw
#6 Posted : 8/20/2012 12:24:50 AM

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Seeds are legal.
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marz
#7 Posted : 10/16/2012 1:49:39 PM

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it would be nice to live in canada are mexcio and legaly buy ibogaine hcl yumy
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SnozzleBerry
#8 Posted : 10/16/2012 2:38:28 PM

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ntwhtyouknw wrote:
Seeds are legal.

Not true. T. iboga is explicitly named in the CSA, meaning all parts of the plants are illegal to possess, grow, buy, sell, yadda yadda yadda.
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Frusciante
#9 Posted : 10/16/2012 6:30:19 PM

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I bought seeds domestically and know others that have as well. I just assumed since they were available they weren't illegal, kind of like how you can buy spores but not mushrooms here in the states.
 
SnozzleBerry
#10 Posted : 10/16/2012 7:44:00 PM

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Frusciante wrote:
I bought seeds domestically and know others that have as well. I just assumed since they were available they weren't illegal, kind of like how you can buy spores but not mushrooms here in the states.

Not the case with iboga, afaik. The reason mushroom spores are legal is because psilocybin-containing species of mushroom are not explicitly scheduled, but psilocin/psilocybin are. As spores are "drug free", they're legal. In the case of iboga, the plant is specifically scheduled, making this a moot point.

I know there's at least one domestic supplier, but it's not legal and sourcing to/in the US is not a valid topic for discussion given the legal status of the plant within the US.
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In New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested.
In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names.
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marz
#11 Posted : 10/23/2012 5:58:16 PM

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U can buy ibogaine seeds online and there legal in the USA...

ibogaine HCL,ibogaine roots,ibogaine bark)

^^^^^^^^
^^^are a schedule 1 substance and a felony in usa^^^


"PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS DON'T CHANGE YOU- THEY DON'T CHANGE YOUR CHARACTER-UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE CHANGED THEY ENABLE CHANGE THEY CAN'T IMPOSE IT...."
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It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution
 
MagicGing
#12 Posted : 10/3/2013 1:23:57 PM

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growing plants that contain similar alks such as voacanga africana is legal in the US. apparently this plant even has a bit of ibogaine in it. i think lol
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SnozzleBerry
#13 Posted : 10/3/2013 7:20:41 PM

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Plants that contain ibogaine are illegal Wink
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In New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested.
In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names.
גם זה יעבור
 
MagicGing
#14 Posted : 10/4/2013 1:44:54 PM

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hmm i had someone on sts tell me growing voacanga africana was legal

sorry for the false info, and thanks for clarifying

well according to wiki, "The bark and seeds of the tree are used in Ghana as a poison, stimulant, aphrodisiac, and ceremonial psychedelic.[citation needed] These effects are due to the presence of a complex mixture of iboga alkaloids such as voacangine, voacamine, vobtusine, amataine, akuammidine, tabersonine, coronaridine and vobtusine."
so apparently there is no direct ibogaine in it, only stuff very similar
“The swans go on the path of the sun, they go through the ether by means of their miraculous power; the wise are led out of this world, when they have conquered Mara (desire) and his train" Dhammapada

"But is it probable," asked Pascal, "that probability gives assurance? Nothing gives certainty but truth; nothing gives rest but for the sincere search for truth"
 
Coja
#15 Posted : 6/6/2014 12:19:22 AM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
Plants that contain ibogaine are illegal Wink


Snozz speaks the truth here. IIRC, V. africana didn't contain ibogaine, but related compounds ... much like T. jasmanoides which grows well and produces a beautiful scent/perfum from it's flowers (thus the species name) in zone 6 and up. T. iboga is one of the very few schedule 1 substances designated by botanical name to explicitly cover plant materials, along with peyote (L. willi.), opium poppy (P. somni.), marijuana (C. sativa), coca (E. coca), and khat (C. edulis); as well as the purified, primary psychoactive alkaloids.

As Snozz noted, Psilocybe and related genera have not been scheduled, just the primary, psychoactive compounds present in mature fungal fruits. The same is true of many DMT containing plants, the seeds are completely legal if they don't contain DMT. However, there's a lot of legal liability for the extractable plant compounds if connected to an intent to use/manufacture/produce ... watch that yard grass Surprised .
 
Coja
#16 Posted : 6/6/2014 12:24:00 AM

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[quote=MagicGing] alkaloids such as voacangine, voacamine, vobtusine, amataine, akuammidine, tabersonine, coronaridine and vobtusine."
/quote]

Nothing scheduled in that list of alkaloids, though some reports of neurotoxicity in the scientific literature, IIRC, and the same may be true of ibogaine and is certainly true of many powerful stimulants and particularly with enactogen/stims. It would be interesting to get some more in depth studies on the degree of neurotoxicity though, e.g. is it on par with rolling or smoking a bowl of meth?

 
Keeper Trout
#17 Posted : 10/31/2015 7:23:55 PM
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm puzzled by this.

What I found in the CSA pertaining to ibogaine (and other indolic schedule 1 compounds) was the comment
"Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another Hallucinogenic
schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, substances.
which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic
substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and
salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers,
and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical
designation:"
That could be interpreted to mean the plants are considered to be an ibogaine containing material but if that interpretation is true then all bufotenine and DMT containing plants would also all be illegal.

Richard Glen Boire's opinion on this was that cultivation of the plant and seeds were not illegal.

I'd love to find a clarification of which opinion is right. OR to learn there is another passage I am missing. Thanks!
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#18 Posted : 11/1/2015 3:12:45 PM
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mew wrote:
any part of t iboga is a schedule 1 felony in the usa, inlcuding ibogaine...

schedule 1 means there is no medical use for the substance and therefore it is only hazardous
its ironic when government funded studies regarding iboga/ibogaine conclude unequivocally that it is not only an applicable medical treatment for opiate addiction, but unrivaled as a medicine for those suffering in that way

the same thing goes for psilocin/psilocybin, yet studies done by the same government that declares they are medically irelevent show it to be an effective treatment when dealing with late stage terminal cancer patients, treating them psychologically to accept their fate consequently increasing the quality of life they have left exponentially...


the laws are a travesty and only through spreading truth can they finally dissolve and evolve into more logical parameters.

change from within the broken system rather than fighting the whole thing with revolution, its going to be a while longer before we can see the blooms of our communal efforts, sadly



I have extremely high hopes for ibogaine, but here's the thing:

By some estimates, ibogaine use has a mortality rate of about 1 in 300. Deaths from ibogaine have been attributed to bradycardia (slowing of the heart), lethal combinations with other substances, liver problems, and other conditions. Anyone interested in using ibogaine to treat substance abuse should carefully weigh the risks and benefits of treatment, and should ensure that medical assistance is available during the session.
http://www.maps.org/research/ibogaine-therapy

This is an element of risk that is otherwise unknown with the other classic psychedelics, though ibogaine does have fairly unique pharmacology, specially regarding agonist/antagonist action at the kappa, delta and Mu opioid receptors

Pharmacology - κ-opioid, 2.2, 0.61. μ-opioid, 2.0, 0.68. δ-opioid, >10, 5.2. NMDA, 3.1, 15. 5-HT2A, 16, >100. 5-HT2C, >10, >10. 5-HT3, 2.6, >100.

The NMDA glutamate receptor also has anti-addictive properties, and while there are folks out there who want to create a form of ibogaine that is addiction treating but not psychedelic I can tell you they are doomed to fail, the serotonin receptor agonism is just as important as the opioid receptor action in this case, the psychedelic experience is the essential catalyst to lasting psychological transformation, while simultaneously the action at the opioid receptors prevents withdrawal.

I have high hopes for ibogaine, though I feel people need to be aware that this stuff is serious medicine, and that there are serious potential risks, it's very important to find a quality facility that provides top quality medical supervision and care, because death is a possibility here....

Now, with psilocybin/psilocin, mescaline, dimethyltryptamine, and THC there's never a possibility of death as a result of toxic overdose from the compound (there are three reported deaths from psilocybe fungi ( https://www.erowid.org/p...s/mushrooms_death.shtml ) two cases are very murky and the other involves a heart transplant patient, so I'm confident in saying death is not a risk from consumption of psilocybe fungi)

The classic psychedelics (DMT, LSD, psilocybin/psilocin, mescaline, marijuana) are incredibly safe, and with the exception of LSD, have all been time tested by thousands of years of human use, in Mexico there is even recorded use of the seeds of certain morning glory vines which contain lysergamides similar in structure to LSD, so human use of all of the classic psychedelics is nothing new. Even modern pharmacological science has shown the intrinsic safety if these compounds, as is pointed out by Dr. David E. Nichols here:

As senior LSD researcher Dr. David Nichols, Distinguished Chair of Pharmacology at Purdue University and head of one of the world's top LSD research labs, stated in his 2004 review article on hallucinogens, "There is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human body organ. [...] Hallucinogens do not cause life-threatening changes in cardiovascular, renal, or hepatic function because they have little or no affinity for the biological receptors and targets that mediate vital vegetative functions.-erowid

When we look at these cultures that have been using these plant psychedelics for generations, we do not see genetic mutations, still-births, blindness, deformities, early death, etc...we see that these plants and the compounds contained in them are either benign to the health of the populations which consume them, or they seem to be having medical benefits. ( in western culture we think of health as more physical than anything, where in these cultures psychological health and physical health are one in the same, so I feel it's no coincidence that we do not see mental illness in these cultures, and that our culture's attempts at treating mental illness always fail because it's fully devoid of plant entheogens.)

With the exception of marijuana and THC and the cannabinoid compounds as well as salvia divinorum and the salvinorin compounds (which are diteroeniod hydrocarbons that do not contain any nitrogen, are not alkaloids or amines) all the classic psychedelics are tryptamines or phenethylamine and all share close relation to endogenouse neurotransmitters (serotonin is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, meletonin is N-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine, pinoline is 6-MEO-tetrahydro-ß-carboline, and dimethyltryptamine is endogenous as well, psilocin is 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine, psilocybin is 4-phospholoxy-dimethyltryptamine, and so on, you get the picture, now, on to the phenethylamines, dopeamine is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine and is related to the endogenous neurotransmitters epinephrine, nor-epinephrine, etc...so in all actuality these classic psychedelics (with the exception of THC and salvinorins) are exogenous neurotransmitters. These are not tertiary compounds, these are not waste products, these plants and fungi are expending mass amounts of effort and energy to produce these things, which have no obvious benefits to the organism, that is unless you realize that the organism is reaching out, looking for symbiosis with creatures with chemically advanced brains which function on higher neurotransmitters...

To be considered schedule one, a compound must :
·Be dangerous
·Be addictive
·Have No medical value

None of the classic psychedelics (all of which are in schedule I ) fit any of these prerequisites for that scheduling class...

Even though ibogaine has potential risks I feel it too should be liberated from its unjust scheduling along with every other psychedelic or shamanically important plant...

I would love to see ibogaine become an option for addicts in the United states, methadone really doesn't do much as far as addiction goes, the patients are still very addicted, they will become sick if they miss a dose, and they still experience a high from the doses they take, I mean it's legal and doesn't involve needles, and it prevents withdrawal, but it does NOTHING as far as treating addiction goes, plus the methadone withdrawal lasts over 30 days, during which time the patient will not sleep, many patients describe it as far worse and lasting far longer than withdrawal from traditional opioid compounds, and methadone is really the only option other than cold turkey, or withdrawal with non-opioid medications (which sounds great, but is pure hell for the person in withdrawal and is almost as bad as cold turkey), so I would love to see ibogaine therapy reach the United states.

Sorry for the long post, I've been researching ibogaine for quite some time now, here's the legal bit as I understand it:

"Both Ibogaine and its source plant Tabernanthe iboga are Schedule I in the United States. This means they are illegal to manufacture, buy, possess, or distribute (sell, trade or give) without a DEA license.-erowid
(This means any and all parts of the plant are schedule one)

-eg
 
Keeper Trout
#19 Posted : 11/1/2015 6:43:32 PM
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Thanks for adding that.
I'm trying to find what this opinion is actually based on. Erowid does not provide actual legal advice. MAYBE they are right but I'd love to learn more about the basis for that conclusion (both in the wording of the law and who provided it).
What I am hoping to resolve is locating the specific clause declaring the plant to be illegal as I could not do so in the CSA. Was there a supplemental modification in more recent years?
After being hired to do so some years ago on behalf of a seed vendor, attorney Richard Glen Boire provided his legal opinion that the plant and the seeds were not illegal only the drug, the preparations, the alkaloid and the use of iboga/ibogaine.
I'm not trying to argue what is actually true or not true, I am trying simply to learn more in hopes of resolving what seems to be a conflict in opinions online and hoping to find an opinion that came from a lawyer or at least a quote for the basis in the CSA. The 1973 UN convention stated that it had no intention of illegalizing the plant species that it wanted to control (clearly with some noteworthy exceptions), just their use and their contained alkaloids.
Thanks in advance for any help with finding clarity on this.
 
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#20 Posted : 11/1/2015 7:47:25 PM

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Maybe logic: I searched for plant, manufacture and production. Tabernanthe iboga isn't mentioned.

Quote:

§ 841. Prohibited acts A.
(a) Unlawful acts
Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally

(1) to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance; or

[..]

(15) The term ''manufacture'' means the production, preparation, propagation, compounding, or processing of a drug or other substance, either directly or indirectly or by extraction from substances of natural origin, or independently by means of chemical synthesis or by a combination of extraction and chemical synthesis, and includes any packaging or repackaging of such substance or labeling or relabeling of its container;

[..]

(22) The term ''production'' includes the manufacture, planting, cultivation, growing, or harvesting of a controlled substance.

[..]

(g) Plants
(1) All species of plants from which controlled substances in schedules I and II may be derived which have been planted or cultivated in violation of this subchapter, or of which the owners or cultivators are unknown, or which are wild growths, may be seized and summarily forfeited to the United States.

http://www.fda.gov/regul...gislation/ucm148726.htm


One could argue that a plant is a material.

Quote:
Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:

(8) Ibogaine.

http://www.fda.gov/regul...gislation/ucm148726.htm


If a plant is a material, this may applicable to seeds.

Quote:
The following shall be subject to forfeiture to the United States and no property right shall exist in them:

(2) All raw materials, products, and equipment of any kind which are used, or intended for use, in manufacturing, compounding, processing, delivering, importing, or exporting any controlled substance in violation of this subchapter.

http://www.fda.gov/regul...gislation/ucm148726.htm
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