Nicely put, ۩. You've a wise take on this discussion. And I agree wholeheartedly. How can we put two such beautiful and magikally transformative experience into some kind of my dog's bigger than your dog, competitive contest? While it's fine to compare and contrast, it's questionable if it makes sense to measure one against the other.

I also thought the comparison that DMT is a sprint and LSD is a marathon, holds considerable merit. In all honestly, I don't really like the whole VERSUS scenario, regardless of subject matter. In fact, I find it inapplicable in my journey of awakening. Do I favor purple over green? Light over shadow? Giddy laughter over sublime stillness? Shimmering fullness over serene emptiness?

Taking this to the psychedelic level, I feel strongly, than one must never compare and contrast entheogens in some kind of measuring game. Each Medicine has it's own unique gift to bestow and message to impart. And if we are receptive and fully alert.... many new vistas to enlighten and bloom exponentially, before our perception.

Hey, gotta run. My wife wants to look up at the super moon! We are off into the enchanted woods and rolling hills. Ain't life grand?

I have found it once...on accident. Complete white out feeling for about 6 minutes of the experience. Then when I 'came back' to awareness I was tripping harder than I ever thought for the next 30 minutes.

Anyway as for LSD vs DMT. They are just different. LSD is the ONLY psychedelic that works well for me in a party setting. I can do mushrooms like that, but I prefer them alone. Aya is just not a party drug period. LSD however is perfect for this because it comes on sow slowly with little to no come up anxiety (unless you take a large dose and then LSD can be up in your face in aas little as 15-25 minutes.

I don't think one can go as deep with LSD as DMT, but I don't think LSD's lessons need that kind of immersion. (Not to say you can't jump off the deep end with LSD...you certainly can.) It's just that with LSD you slowly wade through the kiddy pool to the deep end. Smoking DMT is like taking a boat out to the ocean and wrapping an anchor around your neck and jumping in. The lessons learned from this are quite a bit different than with LSD. And no Aya and LSD don't have much in common either IMHO.

Also LSD has something about it that I feel more easily leads to ego mania than shroom or aya. Perhaps it's the promiscuous nature of LSD interacting with so many of the brains receptors? Anyway I love LSD...alway's have and alway's will. If I want deep...DMT or shrooms. If I want peace, love and laughter. LSD.

Just wish I had more access to good LSD.

Peace

Lol at the anchor dmt dive!!

Very much agree with all you said joedirt

What else would it be.

I agree with you on a number of accounts. For one, LSD seems like the best suited towards social tripping. Secondly I'm glad you pointed out that while both aya and LSD allow you to move "from the shallow to the deep end" over the course of a longer period, they're not very common from there (in my experience). There's simply a different vibe; a different character to the visuals; different thought patterns, etc...

It's also funny that you point out the egomaniacal tendencies with LSD because I completely agree. I've had a number of LSD experiences where I catch myself in the moment with my megalomaniacal thoughts and feelings.



I have to disagree. I know where you're coming from, and I do believe the balanced experience/state is an essential one, but having said that I think it's only natural (at least for me anyway) to have a preference in a number of these concepts you list. I do prefer purple over green, light over shadow, giddy laughter over sublime stillness, shimmering fullness over serene emptiness, and DMT over LSD

While it's actually been just shy of 20 years since I dosed on LSD, my last dozen or so experiences were with the highest volumes. And... I partially agree with both burnt and endlessness, if that's feasibly possible to do.

I did notice QUITE a difference between standard doses, large doses and mega doses. That being said, I did reach a few high plateaus on LSD-25, where I just couldn't get any more saturated with this profoundly Sacred Medicine, yet, my journeys did parallel much of what has been said here, for the duration of the trips did seem to be quite ridiculous!



From my experience, in terms of activating my Ajna and expanding my Sahasrara into full bloom, I nearly always reach a certain point where I transmute any and all thought, perception of visual fields, and my very subjectivity itself... in preference to aiming my consciousness towards immersion within the Light and the shimmering no-thingness of The Void, that profoundly silent, empty stillness.

In other words, when the shift occurs, there is but one state and one singularity of being. Acid hit me that way since my fourth experience in, out of something like five hundred or so journeys.

Much like the nature of human thought, as "seekers of light", our challenge is to embrace the shift and transmute ourselves into THAT which is existent before we are born and will be forevermore existent, when we leave our bodies and minds behind (and consciously fuse within the ONE). Prana is everywhere and when we access it, we are no longer within ourselves, we are temporarily awakened as the Omniself... as an awareness of pure being.

I will say that DMT is waaaaaaay faster and far MORE likely to induce OBE and an eclipsing with the Godhead, on a more reliable basis. But most of what we perceive is due to our own unique awareness. Still, I find that each entheogen has it's own unique merit and despite this undeniable fact, I arrive in remarkably similar states of consciousness and what Sri Aurobindo referred to as,"supraconsciousness", whether it's voyaging with LSD, mushrooms, mescaline or DMT.

But I digress... please forgive my metaphysical departure.



During the national Rainbow Gathering of 1991, held in Glover Vermont, I took so much liquid LSD that I thought I had crossed over to the "other side" permanently. It was every bit as powerful as vaporized DMT, despite what many of our fellows have stated in this thread. I had a total whiteout experience, which lasted for 3 or 4 hours.

Maybe LSD effects individuals so differently, that we have different kinds of trips and access different levels/planes of awareness? You know, spiritual awakening is spiritual awakening... and there isn't any difference, when one crosses into such high degrees of total immersion. I had deep eclipsing within the chrysanthemum, many, many times under the enigmatic spell of LSD.



Well said and I can definitely see your perspective. And honestly, on a deeply personal level, I'd much prefer to vaporize Spice than drop Acid. I too, love blue and purple the most and yeah, shimmering fullness sure tastes sweet. Nothing is sweeter tasting than Amitra and DMT seems to trigger this phenomenon more than any other entheogen I've imbibed (or are they imbibing me?).

I would LOVE to dose on some clean Acid and vaporize some Spice near the apex of the peak. I feel certain that despite any degree of saturation from the effects of LSD-25, there would be an extraordinary level of awareness born of said fusion of Sacred Medicines.

THIS

Warrior said everything i would have said. I had the exact same experience with dancing. I never danced my whole life, then one night while tripping at a festival my body just started moving to the music, I couldnt stop it. Now I dance all the time, even when walking is far more appropriate. I like to combine LSD and DMT. I feel like a few hits of spice while already exploring with lucy is just the bees knees. Before I met the spice I always held LSD as my favorite psychedelic. I'm not sure that it's not anymore either. I love them both. LSD requires that you have a day or more available to spend away from the world, whereas the spice could be done over ones lunch break at work if you really couldnt wait until you got home. All of these molecules have a place in my life, right now spice is playing a larger role than lucy, but I don't think I even have access to lucy at the moment.

DMT is WAY more powerful but I would say it is WAY easier to have a negative type experience on LSD..

I wasn't sure whether I should have started a new thread on this but I wanted to talk about comparing two very powerful but very different psychedelics.
I think there is no way to develop any sort of valuation protocol for comparing any psychedelic experience. Even comparing one trip of LSD to another trip of LSD would be a very difficult thing to do. This is really what Shulgin was attempting to do, only there is such an enormous amount of data that still needs to be collected that it would take many years of devoted pyshonauts with the ability to make as many analogues of each psychedelic and the popular ones that are already in heavy use. LSD is such a complicated molecule and trying to explain the effects through a profile of receptor bindings and allosteric effects would require a lot more research to be done. LSD is a pro-drug, and the number of degradation products is most likely fairly high due to the complexity of the structure attached to the tryptamine backbone. At this point which of those products is actually psychoactive is not completely known. Certain ones may have agonistic, while others would contain antagonistic properties to the various receptors each of them interact with.
Another point to think about is the quality of the LSD itself. There is plenty of acid that contains highly psychoactive impurities, to not accept that would be to assume that everyone who makes it is an incredible chemist. The sources of ergotamine to make lysergic acid from contain a highly complex mixture of molecules that are very similar to it. Little steps are used by the fungus to produce the ergotamine and the product of every step is going to be present in the initial extraction. The majority of these can be separated without much effort, but the ones that have the most similar structures are going to have such similar physical properties that separation is an extremely difficult process. Until we have the ability to do this research legally I find the comparison to be less meaningful. And as for a saturation point. I don't believe in one. I believe that on any given day each individual has a certain capacity for separation from their current state. In a way I guess I'm saying we all have a moving saturation point. On any given day we can only go so far. If you take the mega dose you think is past saturation on the right day when your mind is in the perfect place for it I believe you can go farther than that limit you believed you had reached. I have had this happen and know that I only got to blow past tha old saturation level was from my recent change in worldview and personal awakenings tha I had just undergone.