Bump. Related, Earthlings documentary. This is the world we live in.

http://www.youtube.com/w...-L7Ys&has_verified=1

wow I need to revote and take back everything I said in this thread. Please anyone reading this don't listen to what I said in the past! I take it all back.

People should really take a look at this.. I first watched it the other day, and it makes that movie food inc. look like a freaking Disney movie.

But be warned, i wouldn't watch it while tripping!

I did, it was not good, not good at all

[quote=Miksiton]Bump. Related, Earthlings documentary. This is the world we live in.

http://www.youtube.com/w...L7Ys&has_verified=1[/quote]

Its really hard to face, but that's just our situation at the moment... and we need to be aware of it and deal with it if we are going to progress in a positive way. Ignoring it will just make things worse

I can't believe that meat eaters here have most of the votes. Doesn't DMT and other psychedelics teach compassion and wisdom?

name me one indigenous group who uses these psychedelics and incorporates a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle into the culture.

Do you feel that you have more compassion and wisdom than a jungle ayahuasquero or huachumero who eats some fish or chicken before the ceremony? If so, what about you makes you have more compassion and wisdom? Is your diet alone enough to define you in such a way?

Apparently not.

Thats a loaded question fallacy.

Who says being vegetarian means you're compassionate and wise, and who says if you eat meat you're not?

I think this false moral dichotomy of meat eating vs vegetarianism/veganism fails to look into the subtleties of the debate. What is more sustainable or creates less suffering, eating a chicken you grew in your own farm or game meat that was killed instantaneously after living a great life, versus getting some fruit or vegetable that came from hundreds or thousands of kms away from a big monoculture, plus with all the packaging and transport and the resources necessary for the technology used in all of that process?

What about those using computers or technology, are they necessarily not compasionate people because the production of these materials create destruction, including loss of lives, etc. ?

Is it so far fetched to imagine the idea that maybe there is a middle path, and that people may try to be as conscious as possible and that might include eating meat or animal products at some point or another, and yet still be good person to animals and people and act as sustainable as they can and that is reasonable given their context and life? Is it also too far fatched to think that some people are vegetarians or vegans and yet are assholes or just in general also create suffering to humans or other types of animals/insects/life-forms and are full of contradictions? How do we really rate and measure compassion and wisdom and whether a person is conscious of their actions or not?

Psychedelics often bring ME to the direct conclusion that I dont want to eat meat.

Where was the I once ate meat and am a vegetarian now choice ?

I'd turn it around. Who says that DMT teaches compassion and why are natives who consume hallucinogens are morally superior? Smells to me like the "noble savage fallacy" and "hallucinogen induced superiority".

AFAIK, I remember a docu where a native said that his forefathers drank Aya before going to war because they could see better at night.

Yeah the Shuar used ayahuasca before war.

Do you know if they were self-defensive or offensive? If I get dragged into war, I'd use my given tools as well.

I was a vegetarina for about 6years then I started eating fish and sea food which I love, since I felt like something is not quite right with my body. I've had problems with my gut for a long time, some IBS typ of thing...pretty much ever since I started being a veg not sure if it's related to the absence of meat or it was the abundance of not so good stuff like soy and cheese, dont know how to fix it anymore anyway. I tried eating meat like 1-2yrs ago because my body started asking for it, plus I felt like freeing myself from the "oh God if I eat meat I will die" attitude. It felt very pleasant to my body actually, it was a wild game meat. I do eat it here and there, but mostly only if I have nothing better to eat in the circumstance. But of course the whole meat industry is sick, I absolutely don't support it. I feel that every-body needs something different, as much as I like raw cakes and other raw things sometimes, my body doesn't like it, salad, yack. only sometimes....soo...I am pretty open minded about this, I've tried almost every diet out there and I pretty much eat healthy stuff no candy crap, though don't think meat is bad for humans, not at all, but steroid chicken is a different thing than wild caught deer or something. It's in harmony with nature I think if in moderation so I don't think it's morally bad. Plus I think not being really stuck on either meat is must/meat is a devil's thing keeps a person open-minded. A lot of meat eaters make fun of vegetarians and a lot of vegetarians take them selves too seriously and also feel superior because of this.
IMAO best diet for humans is something between what chimpanzees eat and a paleo diet/raw - no gluten and grains. just vegetables,fruit, soaked nuts and some meat/fish according to personal preference.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I want to float this point (and for context, I'm a pretty devout veggie):

For a lot of us, our world doesn't allow for a whole lot of nuance. Maybe it would be more ethical for me to raise my own chickens humanely than it is for me to buy vegetables that had to get transported, but for me (and a lot of other people), that's just not an option. I'm a student, working on a series of degrees in a comparatively urban environment. I'd love to be able to farm for myself and eat food that was raised in a conscientious manner, but that's way, Way, WAY outside my financial means.

If my choices are: ethically dubious vegetarian diets, or ethically unconscionable meat diets, I think it's still fair to say that being vegetarian is the more ethical option.

Blessings
~ND

I grew up in a farming community. I've worked in salebarns and meat processing plants to pay bills as well on big and small farming operations. It disgusted me on infinite levels. Seeing the ways these things are treated before being put down was more than a little upsetting, even having been raised around it my whole life, I never liked any of it. I always tried to be as kind to the animals as I could. It's the little solace I take away from having done those things. Worst of all those were the only options for employment in my area so it's not like I could have just fed myself by working as a graphic designer or vacuum cleaner salesman.

However, they did teach me that if I am going to continue to eat meat in my life I both need to greatly reduce its intake and stop buying industialized meat. I'm slowly setting up a farm to be able to produce my own meats. I plan on treating my animals very kindly until their time comes and to put them down humanely as is possible. Truely free range as they can be without ruining other's property. No small cages, open air chicken coups, large feed variety both for health and cause I know I wouldn't want to eat corn everyday until I died, as well as other measures of comfort I can afford to give them.

While I realize this isn't appealing to most on here I don't have a lot of options. I can't grow enough different foods to survive only eatting the plants I can grow. I also am not wealthy and lots of store bought variety in my food is not an option. Lastly I live in the middle of nowhere and variety of anything is VERY hard to come by.

You could say my diet is mostly controlled by the world around me and that is mostly the truth. Part of it is choice but the other is a mixture of regionality and poverty. Poverty truely is the worst form of violence. It breeds all the other things we detest so much in this world. Not saying we all need to be rich to live good lives. Simply that widespread poverty breeds war-rich environments, causes animal slaughter to be the most efficient way to survive, and closes doors for people to be able to enrich their lives...among millions of other problems, many of which cause pollution as well as violence.

I'm personally less of the view that eatting animals is wrong and more of the view that if you're gonna do it you had better take personal responsibility of it. That and just producing tons of meat for people to eat every year is horrible for the environment. That's another part of my drive to eat much less of it. I shouldn't be eatting 3 cows a year for my whole family just because we like to grill. Its selfish to say the least on a global scale.

Maybe one day the rest of the world will wake up and change their ways and with that doors will be opened for me to change mine but until then...I will respect and earn the meat that I consume in the most humane ways I can.

Okay, but it was you who brought this up. Nowhere in this thread was it implied that indigenous peoples who use psychedelics are morally superior.

My point is, that it is naive to assume that being compassionate and wise means you are instantly vegetarian. There is so much wrong with that point of view. People who suggest such things tend to rely on very simplified often almost Walt Disney like views on life and the world.

It's not either you are, or you are not. There is a whole lot of room inbetween that people often do not like to address because when they do the self righteousness they hold onto and define themselves by can be threatened. There is little more that is less appealing than naive self righteousness.

first off , there is no option for meat eaters that turned vegetarian

and furthermore why is there such defensiveness , from veggie lovers and meat eaters aswell

its starting to look like religious arguments , where each religion tries to prove that it is the best religion

be free , eat whatever

also lizards eat smaller lizards aswell , learn from the lizards ,
the best and most nutritious meat for humans comes from other human beings , this may be wrong for the morally high and mighty

yet as written before -




have to agree with endlessness and jamie here ,

eating veggies don't automatically result in goodness , and eating meat does not imply cruelty

food is food , whether food comes from plants or animals , its only food

meat is meat , whether it comes from animals or humans , its only meat

lets not taboo everything and simply accept people with open arms , whether they be veggie lovers , meat eaters or even cannibals

infact human meat is where most trace minerals are , so cook a friend today , eat , eat , eat

@jamie: Their is so much text on the Nexus regarding this topic, I'm actually tired of it. My conclusion is: do what you want and deal with the consequences.