Hi all,

So my girlfriend has been diligently sober for the past 12 months or so as we've been welcoming our baby to the world. She's now looking to go on at least one 'exploration' this summer, so I'm looking at the possibilities.

Does anyone have info on DMT while breastfeeding? Since it has a (reportedly) short half-life and is not active orally, it's probably fine, but any insight or experience would be appreciated.

What about MAOIs? And Salvia?

Well, I'm no doctor but I would say it might be safe depending on how long she waits between tripping and feeding. The metabolism of dmt's effects on the body is so fast that if there was a break of say 4 hours or more it might be fine. That's not to say other elements of the dmt don't stick around longer in the system, they do.. If she's really concerned she could switch to formula for a few days maybe.. I'm not saying she should go for it, it's her choice to make obviously. I would advise against it 100% if she was pregnant but if she's had the baby already then it might not be harmful. Some people might find tripping while still Breast feeding, even with a long period between to be offensive and morrally wrong. Be prepared for some of those answers in this thread.

C_S

personally, I would have no problem with the mother of my children drinking ayahuasca even while pregnant..smoking DMT is different though as I just dont know of any group of people recorded to do that. There is a large group of people around the world(the daime for one) who do drink while pregnant in lower doses and even have ayahuasca births, and there is no recorded damage at all recorded from this similar to other drugs like alcohol etc..there are recorded cases of fetal alcohol syndrom for instance. There is none of this sort of thing in the diame..they actaully believe it is good for the infant.

Ayahuasca is about the only thing I would feel comfortable with though..becasue of it's use this way by so many people without any recorded difficulties. LSD and mescaline etc I would not be comfortable with in that way.

I think giving a child baby formula is morally wrong..but hey that is just me. Alot of people here wont agree with me that is fine.

"The metabolism of dmt in the body is so fast that if there was a break of say 4 hours or more it might be fine"

DMT takes about 7 days to fully metabolise. It gets stored as if it is a normal neurotransmitter or something for a week..the human body recognizes DMT as something it wants it would seem and knows exactly what to do with it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21615005

That might be of some interest here.

Might want to read this thread as well..

http://ayahuasca.tribe.n...8-463c-8d15-4e423e05df87

..also when a full blown dmt trip is experienced the actual blood level of dmt is only raised by nanograms, so given the extra blood filtering between mother and baby I would not expect much to reach the womb..IMO dmt would be safer than MAOIs like harming which could allow toxic amines into the blood..indigenous amazonians, however, have been known to give ayahuasca to pregnant women..compared to alcohol or nicotine, I don't see DMT as much of a pregnancy toxicity issue..

I am no doc too. But I would say. No drinking or taking drugs while pregnent or brestfeeding. But to each their own right?

I am sure if you and your partner undertake this in a thoughtful manner there will be very little chance of a negative outcome. The fact that you are here asking for advice leads to the likelyhood of this being the case. This will however remain forever a part of your childs upbring and if this is cool with you guys then so be it.

On the subject of drugs during pregnacy I have a small horror story that will forever remain part of my sons upbringing. My wife was diagnosed with late stage lymphoma at 23 weeks pregnant. Servere morning sickness disguised her cancer and lead to repeated misdiagnosis. She had 3 days to live before organ faliure and the doc wanted to terminate so he could save my wifes life. Turns out that she was so sick she couldn't undergo the procedure. Anyway the doc decided to put my wife on chemo to get her back on top. She was soon well enough to undergo the termination procedure but we had by then decide to let our son fight on. Our son went through 4 rounds of chemo and was born 5 weeks early. the drugs suppressed his immune system and he got viral menagitis at 5 weeks old. He started having sezure but a 2 week course of hard core anti sezure / anti hipnotic drugs put a stop to that. I then went on to raise him for 6 months on formula (my wife produced no milk because of the chemo and the milk would have been toxic if there was any) as my wife was in and out of hospital getting chemo, finalised with a 3 week stem cell transplant.

He is a happy little 15 month old with the whole world ahead of him. my wife and I made some tough desisions, took some risks and never looked back. This is what parenting is about. You have an ideal in your head, reality strikes, you deal with it together and don't look back.

and sorry about wrecking your first thread, i thought it was an April fools prank.

Good luck!

Ringworm is clearly a bright spark

@Coastal - Yeah that's what I think too, and I'm sure it's the general consensus here. I don't see much harm in tryptamines, but we do want to be careful of course, mommy especially. Wish I could find some study, or doctor's advice, but that may be hoping for too much.

@jamie - "I think giving a child baby formula is morally wrong..but hey that is just me." I know the logic, but you sure sound like you don't have a kid. There are many reasons to give a baby formula, from rahlii's story there to the mom not producing enough milk (which happened to us at one point), to the baby preferring the bottle to the boob (also something we're struggling with). Yes, there are loads of people who choose or have chosen formula outright, but you can't condemn that as immoral either. People used to think formula was best. Some doctors still suggest it. It's a cultural thing, just like the Daime drinking aya during pregnancy. Calling a mom's choices immoral when she's doing her best is rather ignorant.

Thanks for the links, more stuff to browse.

@rahlii - That's a crazy story. I hope the whole family is well out of trouble now. We feel very lucky that everything has been going so well. We did get worried at some point because a few weeks into the pregnancy, before we knew anything of it, we had a big party with a nice mix of substances. Thankfully nothing went wrong at any point, and everyone is healthy.

@Ringworm - Yeah we're on top of the pumping thing, but her production is not stellar, there's really no extra. We're feeding him some formula and as much breast as possible, but it's all a balancing act to get as much real milk in there as possible. For sure when we journey we'll have the feeding plan all figured out before hand. One question in the air is how long to keep him off the boob after the trip. Longer is safer, but it's also more of a risk that he'll have difficulty latching on again. This is all in the context of seeing how the feedings evolve of course, and how mommy feels about it. I don't have much of problem 'risking' to pass DMT in the milk, but mom is more careful and we both want to investigate.

Shayku, first off congratulations!

I would think that it should be relatively safe based on the half life and it not being orally active as well as looking at the Daime children, they also let babies drink small amounts of ayahuasca and they seem "normal." Although personally I would go with Ringworms advice and pump a little before she journeys just to be sure. Strassman showed DMT to increase levels of things such as growth hormone, cortisol, and prolactin among others. Note that prolactin is a hormone that plays a big role in lactation. Dose Response NN-DMT

I'm not sure what elevated levels of these hormones would do but it would be wise on you and your girl friends part to at least do some research into what that could mean before delivering excess hormones to your child.

As for harmalas and salvia I would give the same advice about pumping beforehand, just in case. To address the situation with the amount of milk she is producing not being enough to pump and save, I would recommend researching lactation herbs, there are a few different ones she can take to increase the amount of milk she produces. Just be careful with those as well because some can be dangerous.

Hope this helps

I was mistaken and have edited, thankyou Jamie for pointing that out..

C_S

In regards to drug use during pregnancy, I think it shouldn't require much analyzing on the mother's part to realize abstaining from all drugs during pregnancy is a wise decision, regardless of the drug's safety profile and history of use even by pregnant women. The process takes a mere nine months. This is why I would have issue with the mother of my children selfishly ingesting extremely potent compounds that offer extremely intense experience while the baby is in utero. It's better to be safe, than to chance any kind of complication or issue.

I don't think it would be wise to breastfeed after ingesting a brew as well. Maybe bottle enough breast milk and put it aside to allow your wife some time to drink a brew?

I KNOW people will disagree with me on that, but hey I'm an old school kind of guy ;p

Good luck!

Listen to RingWorm in this, brother.

My daughter was breastfed for over three years, until she stopped asking for it. And both her mother and I are more than glad she did. We had difficulties the first couple months, but (unless there is a serious mastitis) they have mostly to do with technique, with how the nipple/mouthful goes into the baby's mouth. Position is key.

And production HAS TO BE stimulated. If you supplement with formula you can easily enter a vicious circle where both the breast and the baby become lazier, and also the baby acquires wrong suckling habits. If you have whatever doubts with production, just have the baby nurse more. At the most, use a little extraction pump to stimulate production. There is no small breast or unable breast.

Regarding the use of tryptamines by the mother, I don't have information regarding the presence of metabolites in milk. I know cannabis is perfectly fine (even encouraged, in some studies) but if it was me, I'd stay out of tryptamines just to be in the safe side - at least until breastfeeding is perfectly established and working smoothly.

Congratulations and enjoy it.

Thanks for the advice, we've read up a lot on it, and decided that we prefer to have our baby healthy and gaining the weight he should be gaining.

Good luck!

Spoken like a true La Leche advocate! Around here we refrain from insults, even if you thinly veil it with a nice accepting paragraph before.

You clearly have strong views, how about acknowledging that maybe there are different ways of living, different viewpoints AND different ways of parenting?

Please leave the judgments at the door and exchange ideas, not barbs.

JBArk