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LSA, LSH and bufotenine: potent vasoconstrictors (most psychedelics are vasoconstrictors) Options
 
69ron
#1 Posted : 12/24/2008 9:17:52 PM

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The effects of snorted or smoked freebase bufotenine are very different from LSA. However, the effects of orally ingested bufotenine are quite similar to LSA.

Both LSA and bufotenine are potent vasoconstrictors (psilocybin, LSD, LSH, DOC, and mescaline are also vasoconstrictors, but not as potent). Bufotenine’s vasoconstriction effects seem stronger when taken orally or when injected as a salt as opposed to smoking or snorting the freebase. LSA and bufotenine should not be used nonstop. When used repeatedly over a short period of time their vasoconstriction effects build up while their psychoactive effects get weaker. If you’re feeling sore legs, this is a sign of the vasoconstriction effects building up in your body. The legs feel sore because not enough blood is getting to the muscles. Your upper leg muscles are the largest, most energy eating muscles in your body, and they will feel sore if blood flow to them is lowered even a little bit. If you’ve taken HBWR seeds, morning glory seeds, Yopo, LSA, or bufotenine, and are experiencing sore legs you need to hold off for a while. Let your body get back to baseline before using them again. This is more important with LSA (HBWR, morning glories, etc.). With LSA it can take up to 3 days of abstinence to get back to baseline. With bufotenine it takes 1 day of abstinence.

Some people experience sore legs even the first time they use LSA or bufotenine.

The natives often take bufotenine (Yopo/Vilca) orally with alcohol. Alcohol relaxes blood vessels and helps counteract the vasoconstriction effects of bufotenine. Also, natives will often use caapi when smoking or snorting Yopo. Caapi lowers blood pressure by relaxing blood vessels. This directly counteracts the vasoconstriction effects of bufotenine.

The natives almost never take caapi with LSA containing seeds or oral Yopo. Some users report unpleasant effects when using caapi with LSA or oral Yopo.

It’s a good idea to stay away from other vasoconstrictors when using LSA or bufotenine.

LSH is also a vasoconstrictor, but in addition to this, it’s also a bronchoconstrictor. This effect causes shortness of breath at large doses. SWIM has experienced this from LSH and it is very uncomfortable. LSA seems not to be a bronchoconstrictor. Also, LSA seems to be a stronger vasoconstrictor than LSH.


The following is a list of herbs, foods, drugs, and vitamins that are reported to be vasodilators. These should help alleviate the symptoms of vasoconstriction. Please use caution whenever combining drugs with other active compounds. Some drug interactions may not be safe.

Vasodilators
Achillea millefolium (Yarrow)
Alcohol (wine, beer, etc.)
Amoracia rusticana (Horseradish)
Banisteriopsis caapi (contains harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine)
Berberis vulgaris (Barberry)
Black cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa)
Cocao (contains theobromine)
Cocoa (contains theobromine)
Coleus forskholii (Coleus)
Coptis spp. (Goldenthread)
Chocolate (contains theobromine)
Cinnamon
Eleutherococcus senticosus (Siberian ginseng)
Garlic (Allium sativum)
Ginger (Zingiber officinale)
Ginkgo biloba
Harmaline
Harmine
Hawthorn
Huperzine
Kola nut (contains theobromine)
L-Arginine
Marijuana (THC)
Melissa offiicnalis (Lemon Balm)
Olea europaea (Olive leaf)
Peganum harmala (contains harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine)
Panax ginseng (Chinese Ginseng)
Passiflora incarnata (AKA Passionflower, contains mostly harman, and a little harmaline, harmalol and harmine)
Petroselinum crispum (Parsley)
Rauwolfia serpentina (Indian Snakeroot)
Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)
Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Tetrahydroharmine
Theobromine
Tilia europaea (Linden Flower)
Trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek)
Urtica dioica (Nettles)
Valeriana officinalis (Valerian)
Veratrum viride (American Hellebore)
Viburnum spp. (Cramp, Bark, Black Haw)
Vincamine
Vinpocetine
Viscum album (European Mistletoe)
Vitamin B3 (niacin)
Xanthoxylum americanum (Prickly Ash)
Yohimbe (contains yohimbine)
Yohimbine

Bronchodilators
Caffeine
Cocao (contains theobromine)
Cocoa (contains theobromine)
Chocolate (contains theobromine)
Datura stramonium seeds (contains mostly hyoscyamine)
Ephedrine
Hyoscyamine
Kola nut (contains theobromine)
Ma huang (contains ephedrine)
Mormon tea (contains pseudoephedrine)
Pseudoephedrine
Theobromine
Theophylline
Vacinine (found in Peganum harmala)
Vasicinone (found in Peganum harmala)
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
69ron
#2 Posted : 12/24/2008 9:48:20 PM

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When using vasodilators with LSA or bufotenine it’s important to note that taking a vasodilator long before taking LSA or bufotenine can cause more vasoconstriction. For example, if one were to take a large amount of cocoa in the morning and then if one were to take LSA many hours after the cocoa’s vasodilating effects wear off, one would experience MORE vasoconstriction from the LSA. So timing is important. The vasodilator should be taken at around the same time as the LSA is taken, and possibly once again a few hours after for best effects.

SWIM has used the following vasodilators with LSA containing HBWR seeds with good results:

Yohimbe – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction for many hours and also increases the visuals and other psychedelic effects of HBWR, and blocks the sedative effects.
Vitamin B3 (niacin) – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction for a few hours. This is probably the safest combination.
Kola nut – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction effects for a few hours, increases the visuals and euphoria, and blocks the sedative effects.

When using vasodilators with smoked bufotenine, the vasodilator should be used before smoking the bufotenine so that the effects are nearing their peak five minutes after smoking the bufotenine. That usually means taking the vasodilator orally about 20-40 minutes before smoking the bufotenine. SWIM has used the following vasodilators with smoked freebase bufotenine with good results:

Yohimbe – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction for many hours and also increases the visuals and other psychedelic effects.
Vitamin B3 (niacin) – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction effects. Again, this is probably the safest combination.
Kola nut – effectively blocks the vasoconstriction effects, increases the visuals and euphoria, and blocks the sedative effects.
Tetrahydroharmine – perhaps the best vasodilator for use with bufotenine. It blocks the vasoconstriction effects, makes the visuals more like DMT, more dreamy, and extends the duration of the trip. The natives have been using banisteriopsis caapi (a plant containing tetrahydroharmine) along with smoked or snorted Yopo for hundreds of years. The combination is not known to be dangerous. However, they don’t use it with oral Yopo.
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I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Jorkest
#3 Posted : 12/24/2008 10:02:28 PM

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nice! that will be useful for further attempts
it's a sound
 
jamie
#4 Posted : 12/24/2008 10:06:58 PM

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that sore legs effect is why I havent used morning glories in quite a while. The first time i tried them, a friend and I made a cold water tea. It tasted fine,but for some reason it made him gag and he didint drink more than 1/4 of his, so I drank mine and the rest of his and ate the crushed seed powder as well. My legs hurt alot for like an hour durring the come up...but I did hallucinate extremely hard for a good few hours later...

I grow morning glories, but think I want to try woodrose. I used them twice and it seemed smoother...

Also interesting about cappi counteracting this effect with yopo, must try it one day as well..
"my fire dies when it is not required"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
 
69ron
#5 Posted : 12/24/2008 10:42:33 PM

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Note that smoked freebase bufotenine causes very little vasoconstriction compared to LSA. However, smoking bufotenine over and over again everyday will cause the vasoconstriction effects to build up.

Yopo contains a lot of toxins. Yopo always makes SWIM feel sick unless it’s extremely good quality Yopo.

SWIM smokes freebase bufotenine quite often, and never gets any side effects from it, unless he smokes it too often. SWIM has experienced sore legs twice from overusing bufotenine. If you smoke bufotenine once in a day, you’re fine. If you repeat it over and over a few times a day for a few days in a row, that’s when the vasoconstriction effects start to creep in. SWIM has smoked freebase bufotenine (usually impure) hundreds of times and only experienced negative vasoconstriction effects twice. Those two times he experienced sore legs from it (lasting only 10 minutes), he was smoking it a few times a day, also took it orally (it’s a more potent vasoconstrictor when taken orally), and that was for a few days in a row. It’s best to avoid oral use, use it no more than once a day, and even better to skip a day between use. That way the vasoconstriction effects are not noticeable.

Some people are extremely sensitive to vasoconstriction effects, especially people with high blood pressure. Such people will experience sore legs from LSA the very first time they use it. SWIM is not like that. He would need to use LSA three days in a row before the vasoconstriction effects become a problem.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
'Coatl
#6 Posted : 12/25/2008 4:03:35 AM

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Nice post dude, keep up the good work!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Jorkest
#7 Posted : 12/25/2008 4:47:26 AM

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SWIM just experienced this effect..and is eating some chocolate and taking some THH sublingually..

it wasnt really sore legs..he could just feel them tighten up a bit...he will have to remember this next time..

perfect info 69ron
it's a sound
 
'Coatl
#8 Posted : 12/25/2008 4:57:58 AM

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Wait THH and Cocoa did it too?
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
69ron
#9 Posted : 12/25/2008 7:21:13 AM

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No, THH and cocoa help prevent vasoconstriction, they are vasodilators. Vasodilators are the opposite of vasoconstrictors.

However, if a vasodilator is taken and then wears off, and then a vasoconstrictor is taken right after the vasodilator’s effect wear off, then the vasoconstrictor’s effects will be stronger. So if taking these two different types of drugs, it’s usually best if they are taken around the same time so that they can cancel each other’s effect out.
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polytrip
#10 Posted : 12/25/2008 9:00:15 PM
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Would using bufotenine in combination with substances with wich you could expect there to be synergy in visual effects be a method to reach those same hallucinogenic effects at lower doses?
 
Jorkest
#11 Posted : 12/26/2008 2:39:31 AM

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SWIMs first good bufo experience was also on mescaline from T. bridgesii..and he did not have to smoke too much bufo to get very nice bufo visuals..even perhaps a bit nicer than plain bufo..im thinking that mushrooms, lsd, mescaline, and possibly a few others will have a nice synergistic effect
it's a sound
 
69ron
#12 Posted : 1/15/2009 4:19:23 AM

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SWIM tried bufotenine with mescaline and DID NOT LIKE IT AT ALL. For SWIM it ruined the mescaline visuals and the mescaline ruined with bufotenine visuals. They seemed to enhance each others side effects and destroy each other's positive effects. At least that’s how it went for SWIM.

So far the best combinations SWIM has used with bufotenine have been Ginkgo biloba (the best), and THH (very nice).

I imagine that Ginkgo biloba would also go very well with LSA. THH might also, but SWIM hasn’t tried that yet.
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polytrip
#13 Posted : 1/16/2009 8:27:56 PM
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I once combined ayahuasca with LSA. The first few hours where not unpleasant, but when coming down again it gave me a terrible headache.
That must have had to do with this vasoconstiction-effect from the LSA.
When i turned on the TV that evening i saw boris yeltsin on it and i think i felt exactly like he must have felt then, it was in those last days of his presidency when he had become a walking druglab.
 
69ron
#14 Posted : 1/16/2009 8:51:18 PM

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The ayahuasca chemicals harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine are only short acting vasodilators. They would help counteract LSA’s vasoconstriction effects but for just a few hours.

LSA is a very long lasting potent vasoconstrictor. It’s vasoconstriction effects last over 24 hours. A good companion drug would be a long lasting vasodilator. I don’t know of one off hand. Most only last a few hours. Probably the safest is to drink strong cocoa (contains theobromine) every few hours for 2 days to keep LSA’s vasoconstriction effects under control.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
polytrip
#15 Posted : 1/17/2009 2:57:58 PM
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yeah, the headache started to kick in, just when the ayahuasca started to wear off.
 
69ron
#16 Posted : 1/18/2009 1:27:08 PM

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One thing people should take note of is that most psychedelics are vasoconstrictors. In addition to bufotenine and LSA mentioned above, psilocybin, LSD, DOC, DOB, and mescaline are also vasoconstrictors, but not as potent. DOC and DOB can be potent vasoconstrictors if the dose is right. Many others show signs of being vasoconstrictors in some users. SWIM even feels slight vasoconstriction effects from 5-MeO-DMT.

When SWIM combined smoked bufotenine with mescaline, he experienced increased vasoconstriction, diminished visual effects, and diminished euphoria. The two compounds did not go well together. However, LSD and mescaline go very well together.

The only psychedelics that I know of that are vasodilators are harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine, and yohimbe.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
psychonaut
#17 Posted : 1/18/2009 5:58:59 PM
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69ron wrote:
DOC and DOB can be potent vasoconstrictors if the dose is right.

most defiantly, SWIM accidentally had 8mg of DOC and there was VERY strong vasoconstriction. His extremities were very cold and he could see how small his veins were. Effects lasted a very long time(constriction went away after 26 hrs, 3/4 through the experience). Would be good to find a vasodilator that acts long term.

Apparently THC is a mild vasodilator and it has a pretty long duration, so it is a possible candidate(though it tends to cloud of the experience which isn't always wanted).
 
69ron
#18 Posted : 1/18/2009 10:23:49 PM

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Thanks for bringing that up. I overlooked THC as a vasodilator. I've updated the list above to include marijuana and THC.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
soulfood
#19 Posted : 4/22/2009 1:48:36 PM

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If one was to use pure theobromine as a vasodilator before vaping bufotenine what would be a good dose and how long before the bufotenine should the theobromine be taken?

I've read that as a nutritional supplement 500mg twice daily is a good dose but is this amount necassary for a couple of hours of vasodilation?

Also would theobromine have any overall effects on the bufotenine experience besides vasodilation?
 
mapp
#20 Posted : 4/22/2009 10:44:58 PM
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Does 5-meo-dmt/virola resin cause vasoconstriction?

..About ginkgo biloba for vasoconstriction, should 500mg non-extract do the trick?
 
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