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Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate Options
 
endlessness
#81 Posted : 1/24/2015 12:27:15 PM

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Jox, that sounds like it would work, the issue I see is more in terms of how dangerous it would be to have such high acid/lye concentrations in the case of accidents/spills, but otherwise it should work.

Regarding sodium carbonate not being enough, I dont see why not. I can see why lye methods are better if the bark wasnt previously powdered/broken down, but if the bark is powdered, most DMT should be exposed so sodium carb should be enough. People could also experiment with calcium hydroxide if they want.

For example if you use this calculator:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=5725

You can see at pH 11+ (which sodium carb and calcium hydroxide both reach), nearly all of the DMT is in freebase form and therefore soluble in the non polar (or in alcohol/acetone).

That being said, I think it would be great if someone did a side by side with such dry teks and different bases to have an accurate comparison in a real scenario.

Jox, do you remember the exact final yield after washing?
 

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Jox
#82 Posted : 1/30/2015 12:28:06 AM

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endlessness,

I didnt keep a log, so I don´t know.

The problem with the crystals from your tek is that they are not soluble in acetone. If you remember in one post I asked how to dissolve them in acetone, and you and another member said not to use citric acid. So I ended up redissolving them in vinegar, then sod. carb, and then acetone.

I think that this route is wrong since it has water in it, and the process becomes prone to waste of dmt.

I will do more tests in future, and post for other members to suggest different appraches.

I don´t think I will do vinegar dry, add NaOH, it sounds too extreme and unnecesary.
 
slewb
#83 Posted : 2/16/2015 5:19:40 AM

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Has anyone been able to dissolve the results of this tek in naptha? I've tried a similar procedure to this and although a small amount of the stuff dissolved into naptha and once evaporated left that fragrent orange goo, the leftovers that didn't get dissolved in the naptha are about as active as what did. I know this whole thing is meant to NOT use a nps but I would have liked to see the results of a recrystallization in terms of weight before and after.
 
Jox
#84 Posted : 2/16/2015 2:41:30 PM

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Nobody has picked up on it. I have talked about it for months now.

It seems that the nafta or any NPS, including acetone is,actually defating the crystals, not dissolving them, and you end up with pure white crystals.

I assume that the crystals are mixture if soc.carb crystals and dmt crystals, since sod carb cristals are insoluble in NPS, it doesn't get dissolved. Yet it works perfect for cleaning up from the wax.

The way to go is to re dissolve in vinegar add sod.carb and pull free base with nafta, or skipping the last pull with ethanol and replacing it with othe NPS.

 
starway6
#85 Posted : 2/25/2015 12:58:32 AM

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Techs like this are interesting but...

How do you remove the excess sodium carbonate from final product?

Perhaps some kind of wash?
 
endlessness
#86 Posted : 2/25/2015 1:59:50 AM

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Jox, and when you evap the naphtha, what does it result in?

Starway6, you could try the clean up from amorfati, I think I linked earlier in the thread, spreading the dmt/sodium carb in a plate and using water to pick up sodium carb and sodium acetate excess and leaving dmt behind. Or using high proof ethanol or IPA or acetone to pick up dmt and leaving those unwanted products behind.
 
Synkromystic
#87 Posted : 2/25/2015 8:29:18 AM

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slewb wrote:
Has anyone been able to dissolve the results of this tek in naptha? I've tried a similar procedure to this and although a small amount of the stuff dissolved into naptha and once evaporated left that fragrent orange goo, the leftovers that didn't get dissolved in the naptha are about as active as what did. I know this whole thing is meant to NOT use a nps but I would have liked to see the results of a recrystallization in terms of weight before and after.


It is possible that the sodium carbonate did not raise the ph enough, and the ISO pulled various dmt salts that occur naturally in the plant.

So my thinking is these dmt salts are not soluble in Naptha and that's why you are unable to dissolve them, but they are soluble in ISO. Using this theory, I plan to do a test just making an ISO tincture with acrb root bark, filter and evaporate, clean up. Maybe I will soak it for a few days - 1 week. To see if the Iso by itself will pull the alkaloids.
 
endlessness
#88 Posted : 2/25/2015 9:28:58 AM

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I doubt sodium carb did not raise the pH enough unless you used very little. If you use plenty, pH 11.6 or so which sodium carb goes to, is plenty for converting all to DMT freebase.

My question is, how much did the goo weigh? Remember goo is incredibly misleading in terms of weight, it always seems less than is there.
 
Mr.Peabody
#89 Posted : 2/27/2015 4:40:01 AM

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How do you suppose this tek might work with cactus?

I have some resin that has been sitting around for a while, I was thinking of extracting. I like the full spectrum effect of the resin, but it's so hard to know what you're getting. I've had duds and then there was this time I got blasted far out where I intended to be. I'm glad I cultivated some of those specimens! Big grin

It seems basifying, and extracting with alcohol would potentially get some of the other lesser alkaloids that a traditional A/B extraction leaves behind. The only thing I can think of is that the goo situation of the cactus might make this a challenge.

I think it might be worth a try. The nice thing is, these chemicals are so tame, it shouldn't render the material unuseable in an A/B in the event it doesn't work.

What do you think?
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slewb
#90 Posted : 2/28/2015 2:30:50 AM

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Peabody I was thinking the same thing but I remember reading in a number of threads that freebase mescaline is pretty unstable out of solution. After pulling the based alkaloids with alcohol you could try salting them. Honestly I think the way to go would be to not bother with basing. Pull with alcohol and leave undisturbed for at least a couple of weeks until everything has settled out and the alcohol is transparent. Decant and evaporate. I'm not an expert on this though.
 
Mr.Peabody
#91 Posted : 2/28/2015 3:22:23 AM

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Dang!

I've been out of the game for a while. I knew there was something wrong in the back of my mind. Mescaline likes to be a salt! I guess pulling with IPA and then salting might be worth a try, but that's not really this tek.

Sorry for cluttering up the thread! Cool
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slewb
#92 Posted : 3/3/2015 5:26:33 PM

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I've noticed this happening in a couple of extractions so now I'm doing an experiment. There's this white precipitate that forms at the bottom of an IPA pull if you leave it in an uncovered jar for a few days (photo attached). Any idea what it is? Possibly lime? Once I'm sure it's finished coming out of the solution, which I think it almost is, I'll decant the alcohol and add some distilled water to see if it dissolves.
slewb attached the following image(s):
WP_20150303_004.jpg (276kb) downloaded 586 time(s).
 
slewb
#93 Posted : 3/8/2015 5:07:32 PM

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That stuff in my previous post was lime, I'm pretty sure. I decanted and evaporated the alcohol and ended up with the nicest goo I've had yet (pic below). I dunno if this would work with sodium carbonate but letting a jar sit for a few days is definitely a good way to remove lime.
slewb attached the following image(s):
WP_20150308_003.jpg (1,944kb) downloaded 563 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#94 Posted : 3/8/2015 9:54:56 PM

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slewb wrote:
I've noticed this happening in a couple of extractions so now I'm doing an experiment. There's this white precipitate that forms at the bottom of an IPA pull if you leave it in an uncovered jar for a few days (photo attached). Any idea what it is? Possibly lime? Once I'm sure it's finished coming out of the solution, which I think it almost is, I'll decant the alcohol and add some distilled water to see if it dissolves.

We need more detail before any comment can be made on this.

*What did you extract from?
*What base was used?
*What other steps were there in the extraction before the IPA extract was obtained?
*What percentage purity is your IPA - is it anhydrous?

By 'lime' are you sure you mean calcium hydroxide? Calcium hydroxide is only slightly soluble in water and insoluble in isopropanol.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
slewb
#95 Posted : 3/8/2015 11:47:58 PM

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Yeah sorry I realize that's pretty useless out of context.

Ms. Wages pickling lime was added to ACRB tea (reduced to a convenient volume) until a tomato sauce-like consistency was achieved. The sauce was allowed to dry and the dry lime/tea mixture was crushed into a powder. That powder was pulled with 91 percent isopropyl alcohol. The pull was left sitting in an open jar for a few days, until white stuff (which you can see in the picture a few posts up) stopped precipitating. The IPA was removed from the white stuff and allowed to evaporate. The resulting goo is very clear and fragrant compared to other goos that were yielded when IPA was not separated from the white stuff or was evaporated before the white stuff had a chance to precipitate.

I may have been hasty in concluding that the white stuff is lime. I used an aluminum pot to reduce my tea (I know I know but I've been eating out of them my entire life; I figure a little more can't be too terrible) and I have read that aluminum can leech into an acidic solution, so I suppose it may be some form of aluminum. Some of it did dissolve when I added water, and there is very little lime (if any) in my final product compared to previous extractions, which leads me to believe that at least some of the white stuff is lime.
 
downwardsfromzero
#96 Posted : 3/9/2015 12:01:45 AM

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So you're sure it's not alkaloids? It's hard to see from the pic if it's powdery or crystalline.

Was the IPA cloudy before transfer into the container where the precipitation occurred?

Did the white matter merely settle out from the liquid (in which case it's not strictly a precipitate)?

Is your pickling lime definitely calcium hydroxide?

I don't see much likelihood of either aluminium salts or calcium hydroxide being dissolved by 91% IPA.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
slewb
#97 Posted : 3/9/2015 12:24:54 AM

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I'm not sure it isn't alkaloids, it just seems unlikely. If it is crystalline alkaloids that would be pretty groovy. It's settled enough now that I can decant most of the liquid and evaporate to maybe get a better idea.

The IPA was entirely transparent when it was decanted from the lime mixture with a syringe. After less than 8 hours sitting in an open jar crystals (not powder) began forming in the jar and falling to the bottom. That was the white stuff. The alcohol was separated from the white stuff, water was added and after agitation and settling the white stuff is a fine white powder.

The package of pickling lime lists no ingredients other than calcium hydroxide.
 
downwardsfromzero
#98 Posted : 3/11/2015 4:29:34 AM

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So, you washed the white crystals with water? Did you keep the wash water? That would help you guess at their solubility in water.

Did you make the ACRB tea with vinegar? Or another organic acid? If so, there's a chance the crystals might be calcium acetate, or otherwise the calcium salt of whatever other organic acid you may have used.

Try dissolving a sample of the crystals in a totally non polar solvent (limonene, turpentine, ~naphtha) to see if they are in fact a lipophilic organic substance - and (if they were to be soluble) most likely alkaloids. Which would be very cool if they were...

Try heating a sample of the crystals to see if they melt or even vaporise. Do they burn/char? Do they leave any residue? Do they dissolve better in an acid than plain distilled water?

Etcetera...

Good luck, got my fingers crossed for you Big grin




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
DreaMTripper
#99 Posted : 3/11/2015 4:46:41 AM

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If the IPA gets too saturated and evaps slowly it will form nice shardy crystals.
A suggestion, get roughly the equivalent mass of powdered lime and see if it will dissolve in the same ammount of IPA.
 
slewb
#100 Posted : 3/13/2015 12:01:23 AM

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Approximately zero percent of that white powder was soluble in naptha, so I reckon it's nothing really worthwhile.

Also, earlier I was complaining that I had trouble recrystallizing some very impure goo in a small amount of naptha, but I just checked and over a couple weeks most of the naptha has evaporated and left behind some pretty large, clear, diamond looking crystals. So if you want crystals and are looking to save naptha this might be a good approach.

Now I'm trying out just a q21q21 style ACRB and lime pudding with 100g ACRB. I'll let it dry, pull with IPA, let whatever that white stuff is settle out, decant, and evaporate.

It's disappointing more nexus folks aren't experimenting with this kind of thing, the results I've had so far are great!
 
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