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Making Homeopathic remedies from psychedelics to help mental disorders Options
 
Jorkest
#1 Posted : 12/22/2008 5:45:26 PM

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SWIM was just thinking about this...it seems like it would work...because an overdose of a chemical will cause the reaction that a homeopathic dose will cure'

so say LSD, DMT, psilo***, mescaline...all the rest...if made into homeopathic dosages...they could cure somebodies mental illness...such as schizophrenia
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burnt
#2 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:19:59 PM

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I am not sure what you mean by a homeopathic dose. Do you mean a lower dose?

Also many homeopathic remedies require consistent use. The problem with most psychedelics is there tolerance builds up quickly. But if you aren't taking them for visual hallucinatory effects then the tolerance might not build up to the intended effect. Also DMT doesn't seem to have much tolerance but to take it to treat a mental illness I think it would depend on the illness.

Also treating schizophrenia with psychedelic drugs is a bit controversial. A person who is schizophrenia is already constantly 'tripping' and giving them more drugs could send them over the edge. Schizophrenia is also a physical condition there are physical changes taking place in the brain that often cannot be stopped. The only real ways to deal with schizophrenia is to deal with the symptoms and as far as I know psychedelics make the symptoms stronger. I think MAOI inhibitors might be more appropriate but thats under investigation and also controversial.

But I see what you are saying like a low dose of a psychedelic repeatably might be more useful for treating a mental illness? Could work but it would need to be tested. People just don't like hearing psychedelics and schizophrenia in the same sentence because it sounds like a volatile mix but I tend to think there is something to this kind of treatment that no one in the mainstream is thinking about.
 
Jorkest
#3 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:29:56 PM

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no see..homeopathic doses have no molecule of the substance left in them..that has been proven by physicists..they are diluted so much that its just the energy signature of the substance...thats why they dont know how homeopathics work...the more you dilute a homeopathic remedy..the stronger it becomes...

and also...when using homeopathic remedies...you SHOULD NOT use them consistently...because they will start causing the opposite reaction to occur...you want to use homeopathic remedies only until you start to see a change...because most of the time homeopathic remedies actually cause the illness to get worse right before it gets better..
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#4 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:36:08 PM

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SWIM could test this by taking a drug..and also making a homeopathic remedy with it...so take some lsd..and then treat yourself with the homeopathic remedy..and you should see a decrease of effects

homeopathic's is based on treating Like with Like...so when you take a whole bunch of a substance and you get a toxic reaction...that substance..when made into a homeopathic drug will CURE what it causes with an overdose
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#5 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:39:04 PM

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the way to make a homeopathic remedy is to put a substance in water...and then bang it on a table(seriously) and then you take a portion..say 10%..and then you bring that back up to the previous quantity with more water..and then bang it on a table...and you do this over and over again..until its sooo diluted that its JUST water...but it has the energy of the substance imprinted into the water somehow...
it's a sound
 
burnt
#6 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:44:19 PM

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Quote:
no see..homeopathic doses have no molecule of the substance left in them..that has been proven by physicists..they are diluted so much that its just the energy signature of the substance...thats why they dont know how homeopathics work...the more you dilute a homeopathic remedy..the stronger it becomes...


Ok let me try to understand what your saying. Homeopathic doses have no molecule of substance left in them? Do you mean the active substance? Because in many plants people often consider one substance the active one but that is not true there are many active substances in any plant or organism. Now lower doses of certain substances could work better then higher doses and that could explain how its working (not everything works better at higher doses).

But if there is no biologically active substances in a remedy then its placebo. You can give people a water pill and tell them its a drug and it might work. But thats the placebo effect. For example lets say you have a cactus extract. You dilute it in water until you cannot detect the active substances. But they are still there you cannot dilute away a chemical it will always be in whatever you are diluting it in its just more diluted so if you drank the same amount of liquid you would just get a lower dose.

SWIM studies plant based drugs and understands the complications in figuring out how a multitude of biologically active substances work together to exert an effect. But its not magic its because there are substances doing something to the body. Its just hard to figure out how they work and understudied because well theres not much money in figuring out how a plant medicine works (although I think more funding should be put into this stuff but SWIM is biased).

Quote:
the way to make a homeopathic remedy is to put a substance in water...and then bang it on a table(seriously) and then you take a portion..say 10%..and then you bring that back up to the previous quantity with more water..and then bang it on a table...and you do this over and over again..until its sooo diluted that its JUST water...but it has the energy of the substance imprinted into the water somehow...


Oh then that is a bunch of nonsense and its people who do crap like this that ruin people like SWIMs legit work. If that kind of thing works its purely the placebo effect. But again its not so diluted that its just water there still must be molecules there. Only after a certain point there will be nothing and then there really is nothing. There is no such thing as an "energy" imprint in water. Now will the structural integrity of the water be different if there are other chemicals dissolve in them yes but if its pure water then no. But its not pure water. Well ok I'll try to be more clear. If anything is dissolved in water the water will be different then pure water. If its pure 100% water it will look different to water that has stuff dissolved in it. But if its really pure water which in the above case its not to remove everything from water you need to deionize it. I don't see the reason behind this kind of homeopathic remedy and it sounds like a good way to rip people off.
 
Jorkest
#7 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:52:09 PM

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well thats how homeopathic's works...call it a placebo..but it works...if you have ever had pink eye...well you can take a homeopathic remedy..and it clears it up in a day...OR you can put some nasty as cream in your eye from a doctor for a week

and there is NO molecule of ANYTHING left in the water..no actives nothing...its like taking one molecule of something..putting it in water...and then taking 10% of that water..you cant get 10% of a molecule...
it's a sound
 
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#8 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:52:55 PM

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maybe you should research homeopathics a bit more burnt..
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Jorkest
#9 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:55:07 PM

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"
Oh then that is a bunch of nonsense and its people who do crap like this that ruin people like SWIMs legit work. If that kind of thing works its purely the placebo effect. But again its not so diluted that its just water there still must be molecules there. Only after a certain point there will be nothing and then there really is nothing. There is no such thing as an "energy" imprint in water. Now will the structural integrity of the water be different if there are other chemicals dissolve in them yes but if its pure water then no. But its not pure water. Well ok I'll try to be more clear. If anything is dissolved in water the water will be different then pure water. If its pure 100% water it will look different to water that has stuff dissolved in it. But if its really pure water which in the above case its not to remove everything from water you need to deionize it. I don't see the reason behind this kind of homeopathic remedy and it sounds like a good way to rip people off."

so you say that homeopathics are crap..and they dont work..you really have no idea
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Jorkest
#10 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:55:48 PM

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homeopathics are cheap and effective...they dont COST anything..its free medicine..
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burnt
#11 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:57:36 PM

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Quote:
well thats how homeopathic's works...call it a placebo..but it works...if you have ever had pink eye...well you can take a homeopathic remedy..and it clears it up in a day...OR you can put some nasty as cream in your eye from a doctor for a week

and there is NO molecule of ANYTHING left in the water..no actives nothing...its like taking one molecule of something..putting it in water...and then taking 10% of that water..you cant get 10% of a molecule...


Well that to me is more an indication that the pink eye cream doesn't work. First of all a chemical analysis on the water needs to be done to make sure its dilute below any level of detection. Of course its ineviatable to more you dilute something the less is there but its not going to be pure water ever by this method. Water will always have ions in it unless you remove them.

Now if you want to prove that the homeopathic medicine is not a placebo compare it to a real placebo. Meaning just plain water. In a double blind fashion. If you get a significant difference then study in detail whats in the water make sure they are chemically the same. If they are chemically the same then the homeopathic medicine is not a placebo if not its just a placebo.


But hold let me get something straight. I do not think homeopathic medicine is all garbage. Not at all. Plant based medicines work eating right works lifestyle changes work. These things do something and help human health if done correctly for the appropriate illness. But taking a plant extract and putting it in water banging on the table and diluting it until nothing remains is placebo. Theres nothing happening except the person thinks they are taking something that will heal them. And then it does because a positive attitude can heal you.
 
Jorkest
#12 Posted : 12/22/2008 6:57:39 PM

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most of the doctors in Europe are also homeopathic practitioners...call that a bunch of nonsense

you really should know what you are talking about before you go shooting down an idea like this
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burnt
#13 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:00:20 PM

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^^Man I am not shooting it down. I am telling you there is a distinction between different types of homeopathic treatments. Some are bogus and some are not. I want you to understand I study plant based drugs this is all I do all day everyday its not like I don't research this stuff. But the mechanism you are proposing for the particular condition you are talking about is called the placebo effect until proven to be something else. Its most likely a placebo effect though.
 
Jorkest
#14 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:00:47 PM

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how many placebos can cure pink eye? or stinky breath?
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#15 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:02:22 PM

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Ok then its not a placebo and there is something in that water. All I am saying is it must be compared to a real placebo to be proven to not be a result of the placebo effect.
 
Jorkest
#16 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:02:32 PM

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homeopathic remedies work on babies that have no idea what they are taking or even that its medicine
it's a sound
 
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#17 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:03:54 PM

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^^Please specify.
 
Jorkest
#18 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:05:27 PM

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Jorkest
#19 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:06:05 PM

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so say a baby has croup...they cant breathe..there lungs have crap in them...you can take ONE little homeopathic remedy..and the baby will be better within the hour
it's a sound
 
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#20 Posted : 12/22/2008 7:06:30 PM

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that baby was me..
it's a sound
 
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